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Can this Indian test team surpass our 2007-10 team?


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Discuss.
 

That team won in NZ(2009) and Eng(2007) whilst coming very close in Australia(cheated out of a series victory in  2007-08) and RSA(ATG series in 2010-11). However they suffered an embarrassing loss in Lanka(Mendis series) and were not ruthless at home(and away) like the present unit. How do the 2 teams stack up against each other?

 

Batting: Looks like this team is weaker. Only Vijay is marginally ahead of prime Gambhir/Karthik/Jaffer mainly because of his overseas exploits. Sehwag is clearly better than Rahul but Rahul has unlimited potential and will end up as an ATG barring any miracle. Che is better than Dravid at home(remember Dravid by then was no longer that great) but weaker away. Kohli is clearly inferior to GOAT Sachin who had a resurgence back then. Rahane/Nair again are weaker than VVS/Dada (but far better than Yuvraj/Raina who replaced Ganguly) but they too have scope to improve and their best years are ahead of them. MSD too is a marginally better batsman than the present Saha.

 

Wicketkeeping and fielding: Saha>>MSD. Our groundfielding presently is very good but catching is pretty poor. Dravid/Laxman/SRT/Viru were very safe catchers and this is a big plus for that team.

 

Bowling:This is where the present team is significantly better than that team. Shami is as good as Zak and may eventually surpass him. He has good support in Umesh/Ishant/Bhuvi etc while Zak had different partners in different series'. RP, Agarkar, Sreesanth, Ishant, VRV, Unadkat would keep replacing each other throughout the year and we never had a settled pace bowling unit. Bhajji was past his prime by then and Ash-Jaddu are a huge bonus for this side especially if you couple their batting capabilities. Our bench strength in spin too looks terrific with Jayant and Kuldeep waiting outside while we had a paucity of good spinners back then(main reason why we weren't so dominant at home). Moreover this bowling attack has a very different mindset thanks to Kohli's backing and they are always attacking and looking to get the opposition all out rather than waiting for things to happen. 

 

Other factors: Kohli is different, accept it. He is an improved version of Dada who has ambitions of molding his test team as the best in the world. His attacking instincts, support to bowlers esp pacers(contrast it to Dhoni scolding Sreesanth in Cape Town 2011 for bowling aggressively at RSA batsmen), ruthlessness and energy stand out from any previous Indian captain I have seen. He commands respect but at the same time shares the leadership burden with seniors like Ashwin, Vijay and Rahane, he isn't dictatorial in his approach. He carries the entire team along with him and puts the interests of the team over his own, always enjoying the success of Team India irrespective of whether he contributes/fails. Moreover this team, captain included have a willingness to learn from their blunders and treat losses as learning curves. They can only get better after setbacks with this mindset. Have to say the energy, camaraderie and team spirit of this team is infectious.  The ruthlessness of this unit over the past 1.5 years too is unprecedented for an Indian team. They don't want to win a series 1-0, they want to massacre the opposition like the ATG  Aussies and WI of past.  The best part is that apart from Vijay this team is very young(25-30 years). Unlike the 2007-10 team that reached it's prime when the core of that team was 35+ years old(avg) resulting in a sudden fall after 2010-11 season, this team won't have such problems. 

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While we are in the process of building a good team, we really won't know where we stand until we play overseas.

 

Overseas, Pujara's performance is doubtful.

 

Our 5th bowler slot is doubtful.

 

Ashwin's impact is unproven.

 

Saha's performance is unknown.

 

The 5th bowler headache is going to be a VERY BIG one for us. If we play 5 bowlers (which we must to get 20 wickets), all of our bats must be fit and firing. There must be atleast 2 pure batsmen who are backup for our main bats.

 

During our last overseas tour, Pujara and Dhawan went missing more often than not which meant we pretty much played with 3 batsmen (Vijay, Kohli and Rahane).

 

Its our batting which is our biggest problem right now. If Vijay and Rahul get consistent, then majority of our batting problems for overseas will vanish and we just have to figure out what to do with one batting slot.

 

As for bowling, I think the combo of Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Ashwin and Jaddu can be very lethal (assuming Shami and Ashwin are fully fit). Kuldeep must be given some chances in this series and the SL series to see where he stands. A few other pacers must be tested too in case something happens to our main pacers.

 

I get the feeling we are a few tweaks and tests away from finding the perfect solution.

Edited by sensible-indian
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As people said, we have been good at home for long time now. Overseas wins are very crucial now especially, SA-Aus-Eng. 

I dont understand why do people often mistaken this as young team. Infact this is the one of the most balanced teams ever. Like early 2000s when Sachin, Dravid, Laxman were all younger and hungrier.

The current crop of players have been part of the system since last 5 years and more if you count LOIs. They have had exposure and learnt from few of the best players you can get. Even though these games are at home, most of them have performed very well. This team has the potential to finally win overseas and that is what we need to become truly ATG team.

Edited by 0zero
Typo
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1 hour ago, CG said:

2007-10 WC Generally Had better teams world over .Hard to compare as we did well abroad .If this team Can win abroad then we will see.

 

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk

 

 

The NZ team we beat in 2009 was very weak and the 2007 England team too was weaker than the recent English units. The ATG Aussie team had declined by then and were just a very good team in stead of ATG team. RSA was stronger then but again they are rebuilding nicely now and who knows they too may get stronger in the near future. Pakistan.. we don't play them anyways, so out of the picture. WI is more or less the same(in fact slightly better now I guess) and Lankans are weaker now. Overall I would say only RSA, Aus(marginally) and Lanka were stronger then. Eng, NZ, BD, WI are better now.  

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1 hour ago, kosingh said:

Over the years we have had many Indian teams that have been good at home. 

 

But when we get an Indian team that wins abroad, that's the team that history will remember.

Under Kohli, we won in Lanka after 22 years and 1st time ever we won more than 1 test in WI. Lanka isn't that weak at home, case in point being Aussies drubbing there. WI too are shaping into a decent test team finally with good fast bowlers and batsmen willing to guts it out in the middle, their win in UAE and drawn series against England are examples.

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57 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

While we are in the process of building a good team, we really won't know where we stand until we play overseas.

 

Overseas, Pujara's performance is doubtful.

 

Our 5th bowler slot is doubtful.

 

Ashwin's impact is unproven.

 

Saha's performance is unknown.

 

The 5th bowler headache is going to be a VERY BIG one for us. If we play 5 bowlers (which we must to get 20 wickets), all of our bats must be fit and firing. There must be atleast 2 pure batsmen who are backup for our main bats.

 

During our last overseas tour, Pujara and Dhawan went missing more often than not which meant we pretty much played with 3 batsmen (Vijay, Kohli and Rahane).

 

Its our batting which is our biggest problem right now. If Vijay and Rahul get consistent, then majority of our batting problems for overseas will vanish and we just have to figure out what to do with one batting slot.

 

As for bowling, I think the combo of Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Ashwin and Jaddu can be very lethal (assuming Shami and Ashwin are fully fit). Kuldeep must be given some chances in this series and the SL series to see where he stands. A few other pacers must be tested too in case something happens to our main pacers.

 

I get the feeling we are a few tweaks and tests away from finding the perfect solution.

How do compare this team with the 2007-10 team, personnel wise, mental toughness wise etc? 

Edited by Gollum
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The NZ team we beat in 2009 was very weak and the 2007 England team too was weaker than the recent English units. The ATG Aussie team had declined by then and were just a very good team in stead of ATG team. RSA was stronger then but again they are rebuilding nicely now and who knows they too may get stronger in the near future. Pakistan.. we don't play them anyways, so out of the picture. WI is more or less the same(in fact slightly better now I guess) and Lankans are weaker now. Overall I would say only RSA, Aus(marginally) and Lanka were stronger then. Eng, NZ, BD, WI are better now.  

Eng were not weaker that team at home with younger Anderson and broad ,Swann was way better than this .NZ I think were same still hard to defeat at home .Wi were better then surely .

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1 minute ago, CG said:

Eng were not weaker that team at home with younger Anderson and broad ,Swann was way better than this .NZ I think were same still hard to defeat at home .Wi were better then surely .

Broad and Swann were rookies then. They got into the groove only after 2010. Cook wasn't a great then and was almost dropped in 2007 due to his bad form. Prior was playing his 1st series too I guess. That England team was pretty ordinary and only after the fiasco in WI in 2009(58 a.o) did they get their act together. NZ was a very weak team back them, I don't think they even drew a series at home against the top 6 in those 3-4 years. WI lost a series to BD back then and their players bar Shiv had lost interest in test cricket by then. The WI test team now is showing a lot of promise and may emerge as a decent team.

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Maybe, but two players this team don't have will make it tricky:

1) Sachin

2) Zaheer

 

Tendu was just bankable in any conditions, don't see any Indian player who will gaurantee 50 in any conditions

 

Zaheer was quick, left arm and more importantly more intelligent than the combined IQ of current cohort of quicks.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Broad and Swann were rookies then. They got into the groove only after 2010. Cook wasn't a great then and was almost dropped in 2007 due to his bad form. Prior was playing his 1st series too I guess. That England team was pretty ordinary and only after the fiasco in WI in 2009(58 a.o) did they get their act together. NZ was a very weak team back them, I don't think they even drew a series at home against the top 6 in those 3-4 years. WI lost a series to BD back then and their players bar Shiv had lost interest in test cricket by then. The WI test team now is showing a lot of promise and may emerge as a decent team.

That was like West Indies D or E team, it shouldn't even be counted as an official Test match

So many WI playets went on strike during that series

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Sorry we don't have any bowler currently that compares to Zak- he was a genius, an Indian ATG and his career figures would have been far better if not for 3 things:  playing on Indian roads, multiple injuries and phases during his career when there were a lack of comparable bowling partners- after all, you bowl in partnerships 

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Broad and Swann were rookies then. They got into the groove only after 2010. Cook wasn't a great then and was almost dropped in 2007 due to his bad form. Prior was playing his 1st series too I guess. That England team was pretty ordinary and only after the fiasco in WI in 2009(58 a.o) did they get their act together. NZ was a very weak team back them, I don't think they even drew a series at home against the top 6 in those 3-4 years. WI lost a series to BD back then and their players bar Shiv had lost interest in test cricket by then. The WI test team now is showing a lot of promise and may emerge as a decent team.

Broad may be rookie but Anderson was at his quickest .They never lost a series except to India ,SA during that period .There is no doubt with likes of k.p,Flintoff that period England team was way better than this.Nz may be current lot are better but will atleast had some fight as they defeated eng current lot might improve .

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21 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Only Shami Rahane and Vijay will get into that Indian team which won in 2007 in England .

 

So No.

Ishant/Umesh/Bhuvi are better than the supporting pacers for Zak. Rahul and Vijay both will get ahead of Karthik and Jaffer. Only middle order will be difficult to get in. May be in English conditions Rahane over Laxman who always had a torrid time in England. 

My combined team will be

Vijay

Rahul

Dravid

Sachin 

Rahane

Dada

MSD

Kumble

Zak

Shami

Bhuvi

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58 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Sorry we don't have any bowler currently that compares to Zak- he was a genius, an Indian ATG and his career figures would have been far better if not for 3 things:  playing on Indian roads, multiple injuries and phases during his career when there were a lack of comparable bowling partners- after all, you bowl in partnerships 

Shami has similar problems and I believe he has shown more promise than pre 2007 Zak, in fact much more. Hope he plays a season or two of county, will emerge stronger. What a time to be an Indian fan !!!

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5 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

We will get to know when we tour away. We have always been good at home. Let's see whether the current lot can sustain that success abroad as well. Need to get a series win in Aus and SA as not having won in these two countries doesn't look that good.

We have always been good at home but when have we been this good? We're whitewashing teams at home like no business. 3-0 against NZ. 2-0 against SA. Should have been 3-0 but because of weather. 4-0 against Eng. Now tied with Aus at 1-1.

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From 22 Nov 2007 to 22 Nov 2012

 

Total matches - 28

Won - 16

Lost - 2

Draw - 10

 

Lost these 2 matches:

v South Africa at Nagpur

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/441825.html

v South Africa at Ahmedabad

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/332912.html

 

1. Steyn was biggest factor in those 2 wins and he was missing from last series. Ahmedabad pitch helped pacers a lot in first inning and Indian batting collapsed. Moreover SA batting was much stronger with Kallis and then in form Amla and ABDV.

 

2. We haven't given a single pacer friendly track to SA, Eng or Aus yet 

 

3. We didn't lose a single match on spinner friendly track in those 5 years to any team.

 

My opinion is that the team of 2007 - 12 would not have lost any match if they were playing on similar tracks what Indian team has been offering to different teams (turners to SA, flat pitches to Eng, turners to Aus, mixed tracks to NZ) as quality of batsmen was way too higher than current crop on such tracks. Sehwag alone was miles ahead of any batsman in this line up on spin friendly tracks.

 

However I doubt that the same team would have been able to so many matches because they just didn't have better bowlers. Kumble had retired, Bhajji has lost his magic. On the other hand Ashwin and Jadeja was probably best spin pair in world in last 50 years. I can't see that Indian team pulling off wins against England in last 2 matches which we won by innings.

 

Wait and watch for away performances.

Edited by Trichromatic
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