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Muloghonto

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Everything posted by Muloghonto

  1. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    Yes, indeed. 95mph = 152kph. Ie, early 150s. Finally we seem to be converging on the fact that Waqar was blazing quick before his stress fractures sidelined him in the early-mid 90s. IIRC he suffered them near the mid-late 94 and was never the same again. Though he did grow a lot in terms of setting up batsmen and still was touching high 80s/90mph till like 97/98.
  2. Rabada vs Amir

    Any 10-fer, by definition, is a big deal. It may not be an utter-stamp of domination and a career-defining performance, but bowlers don't pick up 10-fers like candy, unless their name is Murali. Even if it isn't a big deal, its definitely a move towards increasing the gap between mr-10fer and a rival who is far below him in record.
  3. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    Yes but to be fair, the Waqar who was regularly clocked, day in day out, was Waqar after multiple stress fractures. I can see him being high 140s-low 150s regularly at his peak because he did bowl fuller lengths more often and they do tend to be the faster deliveries of bowlers.
  4. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    No definitely not more than the 76-85 team had. Big tall men, may just a consequence driver from Basketball ultimately these days. By their 'pipeline running dry', i didnt mean that just big strong men were good pacers and their lack of it, caused the decline. Their pipeline dried up for ANY good pace bowling talent, as it naturally would with waning interest. Most carribean people peg waning interest in the late 80s/early 90s due to Jordan. If you take a minute with most carribean english-speaking people in NA, you will quickly realize, Jordan is king of all carribean sports culture of that period. Atleast, even amongst Jamaicans and thats saying a lot. This caused a seismic shift in the quality of school cricket being played in the carribean, which was a direct feeder to their FC system.
  5. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    No, i think they declined because they ran out of depth and poor management. The situation changed drastically between 1990 and 1996, when they still had Patterson, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, all looking good. Then all of a sudden, their pace battery threw up a few lemons and lost Bishop, patterson etc to injury & motivation issues and their cupboard was dry. Story of the WI in the 90s - which also made them so intoxicating to watch - was Walsh-Ambrose running away with the game, with a combination of brutal intimidation or choking vice-like grip on runs & rhythm of the batsmen or the opposition doing just enough to resist the 1-2 punch of 'Ambrose-Walsh are firing and one of Lara-Hooper is gonna come through with the bat' combo. But since they lacked a system to develop bowlers, once cricketing interest waned in the carribean, their pace batter ran dry. Big tall men from the caribbean re not cricket-prioritized, they are Basketball prioritized. As they should be- you make a helluva lot more $$ being an Ok basketball player than an OK cricket player there.
  6. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    yep. another one gone to the wastes. Its kind of jaw-dropping, how deep and good their pace battery from mid 70s to early 90s was. Almost any one of them- even lesser names like Clarke,Davis, etc. could almost walk into any other team of their time in merit alone. Above them, there were the wasted 'what-ifs' like Croft, Bishop & Patterson. Also, sure-fire locks in virtually every team of their era. Above them, the pool is one jaw-dropping mix of Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose, Garner.
  7. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    Marshall when he came on the scene (i remember his debut series)- he was military medium. His action was less chest-on. Then he became hugely fast and kind of sling-y, from 80 or 81. Can't remember. Next time i saw Marshall, he was blazing quick. Holding still looked as fast as him in 81, but then started to run out of gas when he became 30+ and instead of giving a chance of adapting, was cut off the team. He actually kept on bowling brilliantly and sometimes very fast too, in the mid 80s in county. but WI back then, were too good a bowling lineup for practically anyone to survive a lean-stretch after hitting 30. They too had the 'getting old, chuck him, get the new big guy with blazing speed in' mentality.
  8. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    No he wasn't accurate at all in tests back then. He was a T20 variety bowler, transplanted to tests. Losing line, length etc. means you are not accurate ! He tried more things, because he was not accurate enough to find that length that bothers batsmen the most & stick to it for an entire spell.
  9. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    Yep. ODIs 20 years ago was effectively a 50 over test match. if you found a spot where the batsmen were most troubled, batsmen would go 'crap, cant hit him today' and end up with 10-1-28-1 type figures. Nowadays, batsmen are like 'we must hit you. if i get out, so be it' and specifically target bowlers who bowl accurately and predictably a lot more. We see this, in the batting stances and what batsmen do in LOIs today compared to in the past- batsmen pre-meditate a lot more, which makes accurate but predictable bowlers chopped liver. Gavin Larsen would be the guy who'd bowl first three overs for 12 runs, then next two overs for 25 runs in today's climate.
  10. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    This bolded part makes no sense. A bowler doesnt become more/less accurate depending on which format they bowl ?!
  11. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    A bowler doesnt become more/less accurate depending on the format. There was a cricinfo article on this a few months back too. On how if you are accurate but predictable in LOIs, you are toast as a spinner. He had way more variations in LOIs in the past, which kept batsmen guessing more.
  12. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    i am sorry but do you actually see Ashwin bowl ? he bowls on the dime (same spot) over and over again, far better now than he did 4 years ago...in every format. Just because someone is getting hit, doesnt mean his accuracy is down. You can be as accurate you want, as a spinner but if you are predictable, you will get clobbered in the limited overs format. if Old ashen was so accurate, he wouldn't be so bad against quality test batsmen on spinner friendly wickets. Because accuracy from a spinner almost always means tons of wickets on spinner-friendly wickets in tests.
  13. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    Yes, but i think he still fits the pattern of being an elite test bowler who is nowhere close to being elite in limited overs format.
  14. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    Yes, because he switched from being the mystery bowler who will bowl 6 variations a match, to a guy who bowls at the perfect spot to trouble batsmen, every ball. He isn't less accurate in ODIs/T20s, he is way more accurate, he is just way more predictable. In tests, you can deal with mystery bowlers by going 'ok, i will block till u give me width', which will happen when you try so many variations. In ODIs, your variations win out in the end, because batsmen feel pressure to score runs. In tests, its the exact opposite. After 15 overs of no wickets,the bowler gets frustrated and then the batsmen cash in. This is not just Ashwin, its a lot of bowlers, who have switched to being more effective in tests and compromised their LOI effectiveness and vice versa.
  15. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    yup. exactly. I feel this is true for fast bowlers as well. limited over cricket has diverged so much from test cricket, that now, the best bowling formula for limited overs cricket is 'bowl variations without giving width', whereas tests is still about 'bowl balls batsmen can do nothing about, repeatedly, till they bottle it'. I think thats why we have the curious cases of Rabada, Ashwin, etc. struggling to be good in both formats. IIRC Steyn too, was very very mediocre in ODIs till the last 2-3 years.
  16. Bhuvi as 3rd seamer in SA Tests

    i wonder if in the coming year, when we tour RSA,ENG and AUS, we will see the old adage of 'serve them flat pitches, our bowlers will restrict them to 350, their bowlers will go for runs and we will make 500+ and win', like they did in the last overseas swing.
  17. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    No, i feel Ashwin for last 2 years is far more accurate a bowler than when he first came. As Vijy said, he was more mystery bowler back then, trying to do too much. Almost over-reliant on his doosra (or what his version of it is) as Saqlain was to his. Now, Ashwin is the more classical 'i bowl six balls on a dime that makes you most uncomfortable' kind of bowler. Thats the kind of bowler who succeeds in tests and not so much in ODIs anymore.
  18. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    15 years ? I'd say its closer to 10-12 years but thats nitpicking i suppose. Waqar was at his fastest from 89-94 i believe. Holding from 74-80. Players like Gooch, Border, etc. span both these periods.
  19. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    IIRC he was consistently clocked in the ENG-PAK series (the super controversial one) and the one in the early 90s where the two Ws went to New Zealand and destroyed them. Not surprised. Sharjah. 40C pitch temperature would do that in alien conditions. Or maybe he was having an off series. What i've heard/read from the experts is that if you were to take 3 bowlers of the late 70s/80s and call them the fastest, day in, day out, it'd be Holding, Thommo and Hogg. Imran was apparently inconsistent with his speeds, which would make sense given his batting workload and his injury concerns. Ok but these players also played county cricket as well as ODIs and also have seen them over many, many matches. If its 1-2 matches, i'd give you the point, but if a batsman has faced these guys multiple times in their careers spanning multiple formats/series, i think their opinion is fairly bullet-proof, when there is consensus amongst said experts.
  20. Kuldeep Yadav vs Ashwin Ravichandran in ODIs

    No, in 2010, Ashwin was the 'six variations in an over' kinda guy. Which is why he got clobbered by patient batsmen in tests. Then he matured into the classic test bowler who can bowl six of the same balls on a perfect dime to relentlessly attack/bottle up a batsman. That approach no longer works in ODIs, where even if you bowled six balls on the same exact 'bad spot' for the said batsman, the 5th/6th ball will disappear over the boundary.
  21. Bhuvi as 3rd seamer in SA Tests

    yep. especially after the kind of square turners we served them. I am just not sure if they are gonna go for a fast, bouncy pitch or a fast-ish seaming pitch. one would favour Rabada, the other more in Philander's alley. I feel they'd give us fast bouncy pitches, because RSA is far better themselves at handling it than seaming wickets (i.e., England) and of our bowlers, i feel Shami/Bhuvi are bigger threats on seaming pitches than a fast,bouncy pitch.
  22. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    I am yet to hear a batsman who's faced them, say that. And thats pretty incredible claim, because as i said, if you think a pro athlete in a sport involving a moving ball- any sport- soccer, football, cricket, baseball, tennis, table tennis, squash etc- cannot tell if ball A is faster than ball B, the overwhelming majority of the time, you'd be 100% wrong.
  23. Thommo - how quick was he?'

    Yes but it was done consistently for some series. So we can say how quick Wqar was for certain series. Which is why i said, 'consensus opinions'. I don't believe that all experts are liars. they didnt play them one-off. they played them consistently,over the years, on virtually all types of surface. I also think, that we have no reason to doubt the fact that Holding was a unique bowler who could maintain his pace over the course of the day/5-days better than any other pacer. 1. we have expert testimony precisely stating that and 2. it makes sense- man was probably the best pure runner in cricket history, is touted as one of the best actions ever for a fast bowler and thus, we can see why he would effortlessly maintain his pace through the day if his base mechanics are so exponentially strong.
  24. Bhuvi as 3rd seamer in SA Tests

    I don't think Pandya should bat ahead of Ashwin or Saha in tests. Because Pandya is a more rapid scorer and Saha/Ashwin are more classical 'slow to start and 60-ish strike rate after scoring 30-40 runs' kinda people, they need to bat ahead of Pandya. I feel if Pandya plays, in South Africa, in tests, he is good for a rapid-fire 30-50 runs. Agree with your slower pitch option.
  25. Rabada vs Amir

    So turns out comparing Amir and Rabada was like comparing a Civic with a do-it-yourself super-charger kit on, with a Ferrari. After 2 years, the 'pretend-o ferrari' mod broke off and the Civic exposes itself.

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