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Gollum

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Everything posted by Gollum

  1. ODI was a great format but the new ODI format is ridiculous, no balance between bat and ball and doesn't really test batsmen much. I enjoyed ODIs in the 90s and early 00s, but of late more often than not ODI cricket is like an extended form of T20 cricket. I have made my position clear as to why tests are the real deal just like how BO5 in tennis majors>BO3 and classical chess>rapid>blitz>bullet. We can have a separate thread for that but I think that topic has been done to death on ICF many times over.
  2. If you read the article Ashwin is praising Kumble talking about how impressive the latter's record is and that if he ever got near that milestone, he might as well retire. Also a lot of praise for Herath in this piece, hope Ash learns from the Lankan maestro and aims to focus on real cricket for another 7-8 years. Silly formats like T20 and T50 can be serviced by any trickster....taking wickets in tests is the only thing that defines legacy.
  3. Tennis :2017 season

    Fed deserves a lot of credit for what he has achieved this year after a 6 month long career threatening injury break. But how good has Ljubicic been for him !!!! This BH change must be credited to the coach who himself had one of the best 1HBH of the modern era. Ljubicic has made Fed believe that there is more to his game than endless BH slices (works only on grass courts) and mad net rushes. Edberg screwed over Fed's head turning him into Roddick 2.0 with his crazy unnecessary net rushes and zero ground game in the 2014-16 period. You can't expect to win majors in the modern era just having a deadly serve and great volleying skills, that would have worked in the ultra quick courts of the 90s but not anymore. Fed went 0-4 in majors against Nole with his stupid tactics and godawful ground game but he was completely outplayed only in SW19 2015 and AO 2016....I believe even peak Fed would have had trouble staying with Nole in those 2 matches. SW19 2014 and USO 2015 were there for the taking if only he had Ljubo in stead of Edberg in his box. Now the way things have proceeded this year, I really shouldn't complain but I wish Fed had skipped Montreal and played Cinci with proper preparation. He played Montreal carrying a paunch after an extended family vacation, not to forget his decision to attend a Cold Play concert till late night, 10 hours before his 1st match . Nadal winning his 3rd USO since 2010 while Fed last won in 2009 and Nole with only 2 USOs is so unjust...... how can any proper tennis fan make peace with the fact that Nadal has more USOs than Nole despite being a far inferior HC player than him?
  4. Tennis :2017 season

    I agree his US open draw was grave injustice to tennis and humanity, but my point still stands. This was his best post USO run since 2013 which was the last time you saw him get success in the latter part of the year. Djokovic, Murray, Stan, Kei etc were out.... I agree that helped him but 2014-16 Nadal would still have made a fool out of himself with this competition. Nadal is a poor HC player (relative to other ATGs) and so the bar isn't so high for him, taking those things into consideration he was operating at his best possible level after SW19.
  5. Laxman's 281 is the best test innings for me. But in ODIs and T20s I would rate Viv's 189* and Husseys 2010 WC SF blitz as the best.
  6. Looks like the cracker ban didn't help reduce air pollution as the intellectuals were claiming, just like the odd even gimmick. SC reconfirming its stupidity and uselessness yet again.
  7. Why a Diwali firework ban won't help Delhi's pollution http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/17/asia/diwali-fireworks-delhi-pollution/index.html
  8. Cow discussion thread

    BSF jawan Deepak Kumar Mandal, attacked on Oct 16 by cow smugglers in Tripura, succumbs to injuries http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bsf-deepak-kumar-mandal-cattle-smuggling-tripura-india-bangladesh-border/1/1071981.html Tragic news, this is happening with alarming frequency in the states bordering Bangladesh (since September 2nd week, 4 BSF guards have laid down their lives trying to stop these *). High time we have shoot at sight orders when dealing with these cow smugglers, Shaheed Deepak Kumar didn't fire a single shot at the mob in spite of having a fully loaded rifle. Pretty sure that even if one of these smuggling scumbags had died, #NotInMyName clowns would have shut down half the metros with their BS.
  9. Got to learn from the Tamils. They brought their state to standstill when jalikattu was banned, Delhiites have confirmed their status as cowards, even more than the present day Bengalis.
  10. Minimum 92 killed, number may go as high as 300. 100s of Hindu women forcefully converted to Islam and kidnapped to Cox's Bazaar in Bangladesh. Thought this deserves a separate thread. How can we allow them in India if they have so much of hatred towards Hindus? Many radical Islamist groups are working with them. Indian Muslims will go to war if we deport the Rohingyas, communal violence may engulf India irrespective of the SC verdict. We are sitting on a time bomb. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/myanmar-police-insurgents-killed-28-hindu-women-boys-064343854.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41384457 http://www.timesnownews.com/india-upfront/video/rohingya-people-myanmar-2015-rohingya-refugee-crisis-rohingya-hindus-bangladesh-mass-graves/95931 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/25/myanmar-bodies-of-28-hindu-villagers-found-in-rakhine-army-claims https://scroll.in/latest/851905/myanmar-17-more-bodies-of-hindus-allegedly-killed-by-rohingya-militants-found-in-mass-graves
  11. My hate-o-meter goes off the charts only when some guy blows himself up in the middle of the street, indulges in machete acrobatics or when there is religiously motivated abduction, rape, genocide, forceful conversion etc. Otherwise I am a pretty chilled out guy who has more important stuff to worry about. Having said that I confess holding a negative opinion about Islam and Muslims, mostly the Sunnis. I don't have any reason to hate you, but rather than worrying about my comments/mindset you should worry about the present state of Islam and Muslims. I am not alone here, millions of well meaning individuals have a negative opinion about your religion, not all are Islamophobes by birth. As long as normal Muslims play the victim card 24x7 crying conspiracy, Islamophobia, etc there is no solution to this menace. While there are major faults with all religions, including Hinduism, Sikhism and Christianity, Islam is on some other level. Another issue with Islam is that it is too rigid unlike the more flexible faiths that mended their ways to adapt temporally, I don't see that ever happening with Islam. I am sorry if my post offends you, I don't have anything personal against you.
  12. @Muloghonto @rahulrulezz Thought we could have a separate thread for the history discussions. Instead of spreading the knowledgeable posts across several different threads, why not put it all in one place for future reference ? Let me start of with a few questions to you guys: 1. How do you rate Tipu Sultan, tyrant or freedom fighter? Or may be simply a shrewd ruler? Karnataka elections are due next year and this is becoming a hot topic, either you glorify him or cast him as the eternal villain. 2. Rate the 5-6 (maybe more) greatest Ancient and Medieval rulers of India in terms of extent of empire, military, economy, administration and contribution to culture and arts. 3. is there a deliberate downplaying of the Imperial Cholas in our history books? We glorify the Mauryans, Guptas, Sultans, Mughals, Vijaynagar, Rajputs, Marathas etc but if you look at the extent of the Cholas during their prime and the cultural influence it is huge. South India, Lanka, Sumatra, Java, Bali, Malaya, Thailand, Cambodia all were under their sphere of influence. Even the North Indian kings (upto River Ganga) were soundly defeated by Rajendra Chola. We are talking about a great power that wielded tremendous power for close to 4 centuries and the Chola administration and land/water management is the stuff of legends. Even their ties with the Europeans, Chinese, Africans, Arabs was vast, they were very global in their outlook. 4. Were there any kind/just/tolerant non genocidal Muslim rulers in medieval India? Akbar was comparatively better I guess and I attribute his initial massacres of Hindus as politics/necessity rather than a compulsive desire to massacre non Muslims. Dara Shikoh could have been another one, but alas it never happened. Just a few questions from the top of my head, you can take your time in answering them . Let us keep all history discussions here for the benefit of all.
  13. Happy B’day to the World Cup 2011 Hero Gambhir

    You do realize that Vijay has the best record in Aus/Eng/SA combo by an Indian opening batsman after Gavaskar (Sunny didn't play in SA, still my point stands). Even at their peaks Viru and Gambo were never as good as MV in tough overseas conditions.
  14. Tennis :2017 season

    Fed smashes Nadal to win the Shanghai Rolex Masters. Glorious day.
  15. WC 2019 is done and dusted. No point following ODI cricket till then.
  16. Sri Lanka's cricketers refuse to tour Pakistan

    May be there could be more to it. Their fellow players including icons like Jaya, Sanga and Samaraweera almost died in that attack. If I were a Lankan cricketer I wouldn't want to be in Pakistan either.
  17. Is Murali Vijay's form a matter of concern?

    MV seems like a batsman who gets bored while playing on pattas/against weak bowling units. He brings out his best against tough bowling and on tough pitches. Even in the period where he was averaging 35 odd, he was our best batsman in some of the matches against SA and NZ on treacherous tracks. I am sure he will bring out his A game when he sees Rabada and Morkel across the 22 yards on a spitting green mamba. He is the key in the overseas assignments, probably our most technically accomplished batsman in those conditions along with Rahane. Dropping him for Dhawan will be harakiri IMO, as much as I love Jatt ji he will be slashing thin air in those conditions, a better Dhawan (Sehwag) was made to look like a novice in SA/Eng on more occasions than not.
  18. Brilliant post as usual man. Makes a whole lot of sense now.
  19. Do you attribute Akbar's destruction of temples and massacre of Hindus to bigotry, politics or the Mongol DNA? We must remember that Akbar was controlled by his regent Bairam Khan till the age of 15/16, Bairam Khan took most of the decisions then. Then when Akbar was a mature adult, he did what any king was expected to do, destroy the enemies and strike fear in the hearts of potential opponents. This brings me to the question I raised in a previous post, was the cruelty in Chittorgarh because of Islam or was it a natural Mongol trait? We must understand how brutal the Mongols were. Genghis Khan wasn't a Muslim but I read somewhere that 1% of people on Planet Earth today are direct descendants of the Khan and his army, that shows how many women he and his troops raped in their conquests. Read about the Siege of Baghdad (1258), probably the most brutal massacre in human history. Forget soldiers, the Mongols even killed the animals, fishes, didn't even leave earthworms and plants alive after the siege. They destroyed all possible forms of life there and made it a desert. The House of Wisdom too was destroyed, marking the end of the Islamic Golden Age. That is how brutal these Mongols were. Babur was a Mongol, just one of the rare Mongols whose forefathers had embraced Islam. I don't think Islam made him cruel, it was the Mongol DNA. Mountains made of human skulls was a Mongol ritual, not an Islamic one. Babur and his descendants just happened to be Muslims. If the Mughals were non Muslim Mongols, in stead of jihad they would have found some other rallying cry. I think Akbar was truly great in the sense that he changed as he grew older. He abolished forceful conversion of POWs, allowed Hindus who had been forced to convert to Islam to reconvert, abolished jizya and pilgrimage tax of Hindus, etc. He participated in Hindu festivals like Diwali/Rakshabandhan and embraced local culture with an open mind. As you rightly said, Din-i-ilahi was path breaking. He respected scholars from other religions and had many Hindus occupying high posts in his court. In fact Akbar turned vegetarian on the advice of the Jain monk Hiravijay Suri. After becoming a disciple of the Jain teacher Akbar banned cow slaughter in India. He also built a chapel in Fatehpur Sikri for his Georgian wife/lover.....this I read in an article in The Hindu. Akbar even built a huge 7 storey temple in Vrinadavan for his friend Mansingh but I think it was later demolished by Aurangzeb.
  20. Guys I have a couple of questions. Since most of our invasions came from N.W and there were only 3 passes:Khyber, Bolan and Gomal did it not ever occur to the North Indian rulers to cut off those entry points? The passes look steep, narrow and very difficult to navigate. I once read that Ghori got lost near Khyber pass and only in the 3rd attempt was he able to figure out the correct route to enter India. The narrowness of the passes and heights of the surrounding mountains could have been a strategic advantage for the hosts. Not many invaders can enter at once because of the narrow width of the passes and high mountains nearby can house archers to do some target practice of the enemy soldiers. In that sense these passes are like the Eyrie (Game of Thrones wallah), defensively too solid and impregnable. I don't understand how the invaders were allowed to enter so easily and so frequently, am I missing something here? And why did the Indian rulers meet the invaders in the open fields of Panipat 3 successive times? Being the hosts they had the opportunity to choose the venue? Is it because Panipat is near Delhi and hence they could bring in reinforcements quickly? Do you guys think in hindsight they could have chosen some other venue as the battlefield.
  21. Let my elaborate my views about Tipu Sultan because I asked the question in the first place. History demands objectivity, one mustn't get very emotional while dealing with any historical subject. What is done is done, simply whining and crying about the past won't change the events. Tipu is a subject which has divided Karnataka right down the middle. Either you worship/adore him or castigate him as the eternal villain of South India, there is no middle ground as far as he is concerned. With elections due next year expect Tipu to be a talking point in the campaign by all sides. Right wing forces are already in the process of spreading fake information and spewing hatred against Muslims rallying behind the atrocities of Tipu. Congress wants to consolidate its Muslim votebank, hence the annual Tipu Jayanti celebrations all across the state, something that has entered the vogue only in the last 3-4 years. First let me get a few facts out of the way before presenting my views about Tipu the man. He was a freedom fighter in the sense that he took up arms against the British and died fighting in battle. Right wing extremists may argue that he did it for his own selfish reasons and not for the country, duh....there was no concept of India the nation at that phase of time. We were a fragmented lot with some rulers accepting British/French/Dutch/Portuguese/Danish (European) paramountcy while others resisted tooth and nail ultimately losing to the superior Europeans in due course of time. If we are to accord the status of freedom fighter to the likes of Rani Laxmibai, Nana Sahib, Tantya Tope, Begum Hazrat Mahal, Kunwar Singh etc we must accord the same status to Tipu Sultan. They all did it for selfish reasons if you look at it from a particular angle but the cold hard truth is that they all resisted the European onslaught paying the ultimate price in the end. Tipu was a military genius. His use of rocket warfare was the stuff of legends. That the British adopted this technology after Tipu's fall is a testament to Tipu's innovation. The Congreve rocket was a straight imitation of Tipu's rocket and played a pivotal role in the Napoleonic Wars to follow. This is something we must be proud of, in an age where we were left so far behind in science and technology, there was a brown man who was a pioneer in a technology which was subsequently borrowed by the European powerhouses. May be after the Gupta empire this was the first instance of a desi actually inventing something ( correct me I am wrong and missing something @Muloghonto @rahulrulezz because I am under the impression that we lost our scientific edge after the fall of the Guptas). If you have read 'Wings of Fire' by our beloved late President Dr Kalam, he mentions that NASA's head office has a picture of Tipu Sultan with his rockets and that is something which made him proud. Indeed it should make each of us proud. Tipu was one of the few Indian rulers with multiple victories against the British (Pollilur, Kumbakonam, Chidambaram), some of them crushing victories. The 2nd Anglo Mysore war can be described as a victory for Mysore and the subsequent Treaty of Mangalore was the last British Indian treaty with the Indian ruler having a more favorable footing. Of course if you delve deeper you will see that the 2nd Anglo Mysore war and 1st Anglo Maratha wars overlapped, meaning the Company was fighting a 2 front war for over 2 years, a blunder on their part. This was also the last time they would be making this mistake (2 front war in Indian SC), they never repeated their mistakes and this is what made them so hard to beat. Tipu was a cruel man. He did convert/kill many Hindus and Christians in South India and I am not going to deny these facts. There is ample proof of these happenings and it will be intellectual dishonesty on my part to blatantly deny his despotic mannerisms against non Muslims in certain areas. Now coming to my analysis of Tipu the man, let me try to break down his decisions and explain why did what he did and why he is a much more complicated character and simply portraying him as black or white without shades of grey is doing disservice to history. Forceful conversions in Malabar- This is something we hear all the time. Tipu converted thousands, may be lakhs of Nairs and other lower castes to Islam. Yes there were large scale conversions of Nairs to Islam. But let me break it down. Kerala at that point of time was a very rigid society, caste rules were very strict and lower castes were treated like scum. Namboothiri/Nambudiri Brahmins were pakka Brahman supremacists and all the lower castes were treated very badly, even Kshatriyas were slaves of these Brahmins. By custom, only the eldest Namboothiri son could marry, other sons couldn't. They could have relations with Nair women. So what happened was that Nair women were confined in a residential area and the Namboothiri men would come at nightfall and * multiple Nair women, kind of like prostitution. Nair women were held in those places against their will, they couldn't come out of their trapped lives, reduced to the status of prostitutes forced to service the highest caste men. The bastard children conceived from these acts wouldn't get the caste of their fathers, they were relegated to the status of their mothers and hence left as outcast bastards. Thus the Nairs were a matrilineal society (only other matrilineal societies in Indian SC back then were in Nagaland and Manipur), at the mercy of the Brahmins all the time. Tipu came to Malabar coast because the Namboothiri Diwan of Travancore had invaded Cochin, which was under Mysore's protection at that time. As such Tipu was pissed off at the Namboothiris and when he saw the plight of Nair women on his way, he offered them a way out of their misery. I am not saying that there was no forceful conversion there, but isn't it possible that many Nairs converted to Islam to escape the hegemony of Namnoothiris in Kerala? You all must be familiar with the breast tax on lower caste women in Kerala imposed by the Brahmins. Lower caste women had to pay taxes if they wanted to cover their breasts, being bare chested was a sign of respect to Brahmins in that society. Do read about Nangeli, the Ezhava women who cut off her breasts as a protest against the breast tax system. Tipu when he saw this nonsense ordered all lower caste women to stop paying such a tax and supplied blouses to them. Isn't it possible that in such an oppressive environment the lower castes had had enough and willfully converted to Islam? Tipu hated Brits and liked the French. Napolean himself sought an alliance with Tipu to face the common enemy. Tipu was a member of the extremist club of the French Revolution, the Jacobin Club. He also planted a Liberty Tree in Mysore and rechristened himself as Citizen Tipu. He was a perennial ally of the French in India, because he was enamored by the ideas propagated by French Revolution. Bear in mind that in that period, America had just won its freedom. The American Revolution was over in 1783 and the treaty of Paris was signed during the middle of the 2nd Anglo Mysore War. Who supported the American Patriots in the colonial revolt? FRANCE. Who was supporting Tipu in his revolt? FRANCE. Indeed France was the key link in both cases. The Brits had lost America because of France and their only true remaining rival in India was again being supported by the same country. More reason for the Brits to be wary. There is a reason why British historians went out of their way to portray Tipu as a tyrant whilst glorifying the Company forces as liberators. The divide and rule policy of Brits involved fabricating many lies about Tipu's atrocities against the Hindus to get the Marathas on their side. No Indian ruler was vilified by the British historians more than the Tiger of Mysore. It is no surprise that they rolled out their best commanders to take out Tipu. Charles Cornwallis the British hero in the Great American Revolution was called up to lead the Company forces in the 3rd Anglo Mysore War. Arthur Wellesley led their troops in the 4th Anglo Mysore War , in which Tipu ultimately died. Arthur Wellesley was the Duke of Wellington (capital of NZ is named after him) and the person who defeated Napolean in Waterloo, one of the greatest British heroes. Another French connection, the man who defeated Tipu also defeated Napolean !!!! Tipu was ruthless. Anyone not from his kingdom who crossed his path was dealt with severely. He butchered the Kodavas of Coorg who had successfully irritated Mysore through their guerrilla tactics. He butchered the Mallus, same with Mangalorean Christians who had pledged loyalty to the British. He didn't massacre Christians who were supporting France. He hated Brits and anyone who was against him was shown no mercy. He even massacred many of Nizam's men because they were supporting the Brits. Right wing extremists won't tell you how he tortured Muslim prisoners from the Nizam's camp. That was one of the main reasons why Nizam sent such a huge army in support of the Company in the 4th and final Anglo Mysore War. More than a bigot, I see a ruthless man in Tipu here. His enmity with the Marathas can be gauged from the fact that Mysore was under continuous attack from the Marathas after the 3rd battle of Panipat. Marathas were weakened by that point of time and they didn't want another major power to rise in the South. Hyder Ali was under continuous attack from Madhavrao, there was an invasion every 2-3 years from the Maratha side. But Tipu never really got into a major tiff with them because his mind was preoccupied elsewhere and the Marathas weren't weak like the Kodavus or Namboothiris. Nevertheless they were on opposite sides of the field in the 4th Anglo Mysore War. His treatment of Hindus in the Mysore region was radically different from those outside the region. Marathas were no angels. When they sacked Hindu temples in Mysore including Sringeri, it was rebuilt by Tipu. While he destroyed some temples in the enemy states he built temples in his region. The Sringeri Sharada Preeth, seat of the Sankaracharya was rebuilt from scratch by Tipu after being destroyed to rubble by the Marathas (Marathas have destroyed many temples in Surat and Bengal region also, killing many Hindus in the process, inconvenient truth that many Hindus don't want to admit). Tipu exchanged 100s of letters with the Sringeri Sankaracharya , he even wore a ring bearing the name 'Ram' in his final battle, it was gifted to him by Sringeri Sankaracharya. He made liberal endowments to many temples in Mysore and even today the Sringeri mutt honors him on his jayanti. There were many Hindus in his court, his Diwan and Treasurer were both Hindus. My understanding of this is that he was tolerant towards his citizens but ruthless against outsiders, irrespective of religion. He was a cruel man, but difficult to call him a bigot. At worst he can be described as a cunning ruler who knew how to get the support of Hindus in his kingdom in spite of holding a negative opinion about them. A very interesting character IMO, and may be controversial to some here but I believe he has been treated unfairly by the British historians and modern day Hindutva supporters.
  22. Tennis :2017 season

    A totally justified suspension methinks. There is no place for misogyny in any sport, Fognini's antics make me laugh but this was overstepping the line. As much as I like Kyrgios, he too deserved an extended ban after what he said about Stan's GF Donna Vekic 2 years ago.
  23. Nice. More than Thailand, Indonesia is very surprising for me. Thailand is Buddhist majority, essentially just like us. Indonesia is 90% Muslim majority, still they hold on to their Indian past. If you see the trend worldwide Muslims dissociate themselves from their pre Islamic past. Even Iran has distanced itself from its past and it has one of the greatest histories of the ancient world. But seeing Indonesia and Malaysia(61% Muslim) clinging on to their pre Islamic roots is shocking tbh.
  24. We focus on Islamic conquests from the N.W and get upset about the what ifs and missed opportunities. But we have always been under attack from the N.W since ancient times. No one could attack us from north because of the great mountain wall, east was too hilly and forested. Until the European rise no foreigner was able to master the sea (come to think of it, our navies were so damn good, especially that of the Cholas and Pandyas), so an attack from the coasts was impossible. That left only the N.W with Khyber, Bolan and Gomal passed leading straight into modern day Khyber Pakthunkhwa. Forget medieval India. Think of the invaders of ancient Indian SC. The Achaemenid Empire of Persia, largest empire of the ancient world started attacking us from the 6th century BC onwards. Cambyses II and later Darius I, dad of Xerxes (300 wallah, shame on Hollywood for depicting such a great king as some sort of cartoon ) made real advance to as far as the lower Indus valley. It is a documented fact that Indians (experts in bow and arrow) and Tibetans(brought the Tibetan Mastiffs to war) fought in the Greek-Persian battles. Modern day Afghanistan and Pakistan (upto Indus, though some sources say it could be even bigger extending upto Indian Punjab) formed the 20th satrap of the mighty Persian empire. Some sources indicate that the wars were financed by Indian gold. Persia is modern day Iran, same place from where Nadir Shah would emerge in the 1700s. Nadir Shah was the man who broke the backs of the Mughals and Marathas before Abdali entered India. Same people, just their religion was different. Alexander from Macedonia....self explanatory. Greco Bactrians from Central Asia and Western Afghanistan, same people as Ghazni, Ghori (AFG) and Timur, Babur (Uzbekistan). Scythians from Kazakhstan, Iran and Eurasian steppe. They became Sakas in India and most of them settled in western India. Parthians from Central Asia. Popular theory is they are precursors of the Pallavas. I read somewhere that Pallava in Tamil means 'Rascal'. They were called rascals because they behaved like barbarians in the eyes of local Dravidians. Parthians were like proper barbarians in their mannerisms and fighting. Kushanas from modern day Xinjian Uyghur Autonomous Region of China. Hun invasion upto Mathura. What I am trying to get at is that we have been under perennial attack from the N.W. Even today there rests our most bitter enemy, waiting to pounce on any sign of weakness. Same people who attacked us in ancient times attacked us in medieval times. Only the religion of the attackers changed, else their way of life, military tactics/strategy and basic character was more or less the same. While we rightly denounce our Muslim past as being cruel and intolerant isn't is possible that even in ancient times the invaders were just as cruel and barbaric? Recency effect, literature, architecture etc tell us about the brutality of the Muslims. The statistics, death tolls and rapes of the invasions in ancient times haven't been recorded. even those recorded are mostly BS numbers, vastly exaggerated and with no objectivity (no way did C. Maurya have an army with 30 lakh soldiers and 100000 elephants, come what may ). Same goes with the Aryan theory. If we believe that the Harappans (defensive people) were mostly Dravidians who collapsed at the onslaught of the fort breaking Aryans shouldn't we equally outrage about the brutality of the Aryans? I don't believe in Gods and Goddeses, I think they are merely symbols that signify something. Eg the all powerful fort breaking Aryan is Indira, the forest clearer is Agni and Varuna is the one who douses the fire. India was forest land then and the Aryans were pastoral people, who cleared vast tracts of forest land before settling down. Same Aryans wrote the Vedas and much of Hinduism can be traced back to these invaders. If Muslims were barbarians who shook up the country, I would argue that even the Aryans were barbarians who wiped out the local culture before imposing their will on the populace. Same goes for the Sakas, Parthians, Huns etc.

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