This one is going to hurt

[dial_100]

Ishant was a big big disappointment. Man, he was bowling even 84+ consistently. Now, comparing SA 3 bowlers, he was good 2-4 MPH short on average. But he is pitching way too short and wasting energy as well as the shine of the new ball. Often giving a wrong line even if the length is right.

Its time to send the kid home for a year. He needs to work on his strength, arms, shoulders. Come back strong. If he continues to play next 2 years the way he is right now, he will be history soon.

Zaheer is doing okay but he needs support as well. As for spinners, you cant expect them to deliver on the day 1 pitch??

[The Outsider]

Quote by dial_100

Zaheer is doing okay but he needs support as well. As for spinners, you cant expect them to deliver on the day 1 pitch??

This is one logic I cannot understand. If our spinners are not going to be good enough to deliver on a first day pitch, then why select two of them. Just on probability you are going to be bowling first in half of your test matches, so does it make sense to select a bowling attack half of which is going to be rendered ineffective?

1. If you are picking 4 bowlers - 2 of whom are spinners then there should be an expectation from them to deliver even on a first day pitch. This was possible and was the case till Kumble was in the team.

2. Given the decline of Harbhajan and the inexperience of Mishra and Ojha, then it does not make sense to play 2 spinners at all if they are not going to deliver on the first and second day.

3. If the idea is to keep spinners for an assault in the final quarter of the test match, then we already have enough part time options who are pretty decent bowlers like Sehwag and Yuvraj to be able to do a reasonable job with one main spinner.

You cannot pick half your attack which will be ineffective on day 1 and 2 and then use it as an excuse for a shoddy performance.

[nballa]

we were not expected to win. stop saying that. our debutants failed to rise to the challenge and the occasion. we were always susceptible against quality pace and believe me there was some quality of pace from the SA bowlers, consistently hitting the 92 mph mark and making our batsmen look like low ranked hard tennis ball league players. time to start thinking about the second test and prepare a flat track, the flattest of them all.

[vvvslaxman]

Quote by nballa

we were not expected to win. stop saying that. our debutants failed to rise to the challenge and the occasion. we were always susceptible against quality pace and believe me there was some quality of pace from the SA bowlers, consistently hitting the 92 mph mark and making our batsmen look like low ranked hard tennis ball league players. time to start thinking about the second test and prepare a flat track, the flattest of them all.

Grr.. Australian bowlers bowled faster than 90 mph and much more consistent basis when they toured here. Johnson, Lee, Siddle. You are talking about Pakistan players i think.

[BossBhai]

Quote by nballa

we were not expected to win. stop saying that. our debutants failed to rise to the challenge and the occasion. we were always susceptible against quality pace and believe me there was some quality of pace from the SA bowlers, consistently hitting the 92 mph mark and making our batsmen look like low ranked hard tennis ball league players. time to start thinking about the second test and prepare a flat track, the flattest of them all.

Its not the track ohhh dritharashtra .... its the fudgning swing .... only one bowler was doing it perfectly and surprise surprise hes got 8 wkts ...

[Karan114]

Quote by nballa

we were not expected to win. stop saying that. our debutants failed to rise to the challenge and the occasion. we were always susceptible against quality pace and believe me there was some quality of pace from the SA bowlers, consistently hitting the 92 mph mark and making our batsmen look like low ranked hard tennis ball league players. time to start thinking about the second test and prepare a flat track, the flattest of them all.

You really don't have a clue.

[vvvslaxman]

Quote by BossBhai

Its not the track ohhh dritharashtra .... its the fudgning swing .... only one bowler was doing it perfectly and surprise surprise hes got 8 wkts ...

He is representing a country that can create only soda bottle cap induced swing, bite induced swing not the conventional swing. what can you say

[nballa]

Quote by BossBhai

Its not the track ohhh dritharashtra .... its the fudgning swing .... only one bowler was doing it perfectly and surprise surprise hes got 8 wkts ...

that's what i meant by quality pace. anyways look the reason we lost this game is because we were playing too casually almost like SA will be rolled over without a fight and let our guard down. and guess what? we let a sub standard player who struggles against every other team get 250+
overconfidence is not good.

[BossBhai]

Quote by nballa

that's what i meant by quality pace. anyways look the reason we lost this game is because we were playing too casually almost like SA will be rolled over without a fight and let our guard down. and guess what? we let a sub standard player who struggles against every other team get 250+
overconfidence is not good.

I take it that you did not watch a single ball in the past 3 days

[Gunner_Mania]

Quote by BossBhai

I take it that you did not watch a single ball in the past 3 days

BossBhai..aap bhi na..Kiss se behas kar rahe ho. Just show him the and leave it.

[dial_100]

Quote by The Outsider

This is one logic I cannot understand. If our spinners are not going to be good enough to deliver on a first day pitch, then why select two of them. Just on probability you are going to be bowling first in half of your test matches, so does it make sense to select a bowling attack half of which is going to be rendered ineffective?

I am glad you said you didn't understand it. Because I can explain what I meant there.

Lets take Murli as an example. There are 13 of 130 tests that hey played (So 10%), he couldn't manage to get more than 1 wicket while bowling in the first innings of the game.. Does that ring the bell???? But there are only 4 occassions when he couldn;t manage more than 1 wicket while bowling in the second innings. I didnt not check every single match of these 13 tests that I am talking about. But when randomly checked 1, I fould in the same match, in Columbo, Croft from england manages to take 4 wkts bowling in the second innings.
Now there may be other occassions where he could not manage even a wicket on day 1 pitch but goes on to take 4 wkts on day 2. Obviously, seach cannot pull those matches here.
Also there are occassions he has managed to take 6 wkts on day 1 pitch (Dust bowl probably).

Does that support my argument??
on a second day, Bhajji picked up 2 wickets. I wont complain for not getting wkt on day one. I am not supporting Bhajji or Mishra, neither am I too critical of Ishant, but I see potential in this kid and he should have delivered on a day 1 on the fresh pitch which was assisting fast bowlers lot.

As for your probability argument, Amla and Kalis are very good players of spin. So give them some credit as well. If we had them gotten out by the phast bowlwers as well, we could have seen SA colapse as well. I am sure, spinners could have taken more wkts, had these two not played that long.

Quote by The Outsider

1. If you are picking 4 bowlers - 2 of whom are spinners then there should be an expectation from them to deliver even on a first day pitch. This was possible and was the case till Kumble was in the team.

Hmm... Kumble. Lets continue with the same stats we did for Murli. Kumble while bowling in the first innings on 23 occassions couldn't get more than 1 wkt. 9 of those 23 matches, he couldn't get even 1 in the first innings. In all those 9 innings he had bowled between 20-50 overs.

Quote by The Outsider

2. Given the decline of Harbhajan and the inexperience of Mishra and Ojha, then it does not make sense to play 2 spinners at all if they are not going to deliver on the first and second day.

But both of them at least picked up a wkt. If they get to bowl in the 4 innings, you will have to prepare youself to change your opinion my friend...

Quote by The Outsider

3. If the idea is to keep spinners for an assault in the final quarter of the test match, then we already have enough part time options who are pretty decent bowlers like Sehwag and Yuvraj to be able to do a reasonable job with one main spinner.

You cannot pick half your attack which will be ineffective on day 1 and 2 and then use it as an excuse for a shoddy performance.

Yes. It is more of a selection issue. I dont know if our selectors will even do that though. The front line bastmen like VS and YS could get injured or something and that way we would lose a batsman as well as a bowler. Thats probably why they dont consider them as front line bowlers.

[The Outsider]

dial, I am not contesting that spinners are going to be more effective as the match progresses. I am sure all can agree to that.

Neither am I saying that Kumble, Warne, and Murali would always pick up wickets on the first day. My point is that when you are playing 2 fast bowlers and 2 spinners, the spinners should be picked only on the expectation that they will deliver on the first day, not as much as on the 4th or 5th obviously but pick up some wickets or at the very least bottle things up. Tell me how is it a practical strategy to have 2 fast bowlers be your only strike weapons for 90 overs on pitches like these? And this was not a first day Headingly surface - there was turn here even on day 1.

You can go in with two spinners if they are Kumble and an in form Harbhajan or Warne and MacGill because you can expect them to deliver a few wickets even on the first day or at the very least build up pressure for the other bowlers. Will they always deliver? No, but you cannot build your bowling strategy around just 2 bowlers for the length of the first innings if you happen to field first. You should not be playing this 2 spinner, 2 fast bowler combination if your spin resources are a disoriented Harbhajan and Amit Mishra and then use that as an excuse for conceding 550 runs.

Quote

But both of them at least picked up a wkt. If they get to bowl in the 4 innings, you will have to prepare youself to change your opinion my friend...

What's the point? They are not likely to bowl in the 4th innings now because of the damage which has already been done in the first innings. And if they do get a bowl in the 4th innings with even 150 to defend it will be no thanks to them. Even so, would you back them to bowl South Africa out for 150 in the 4th innings?

[riya]

Is going to hurt because we sacrificed our best batsmen for a crappy series and selected a weak replacement.

[Online]

It won't hurt if God scores a century

[Karan114]

Quote by Online

It won't hurt if God scores a century

So you don't mind losing a Test as long as SRT scores a hundred?

[ludhianvi]

The only thing missing is a couple of bad umpiring decisions going against India.

India basically needs to bat out 4.5 to 5 sessions to save this test match. Even if India bats with a good run rate i.e about 100 runs/ session, that gets them about 400 runs. So the Saffies will have to chase around 140 in the last two session. That's assuming India bats for 4 sessions

[Online]

Quote by Karan114

So you don't mind losing a Test as long as SRT scores a hundred?

absolutely

All I want is God scoring more and more and more runs and centuries. If that happens and we win a test, it's like the cherry on top.

but for now I'm happy with the cake and I'm not a big fan of cherries any way.

[BossBhai]

Quote by ludhianvi

The only thing missing is a couple of bad umpiring decisions going against India.

Has already happened ... when we were bowling.

[Dhondy]

Doesn't hurt, Gambo. I'd say our side performed beyond our wildest dreams in opening up a 5-point lead at the top. This was very much on the cards. South Africa have always owned us home and away. Even before the last series draw, it needed quota players like Tsolikile over Boucher for us to eke out a narrow victory. In the meantime, players like Amla and DeVilliers have matured, and Kallis is quite clearly the best batsman in the world at the moment. That's even before I mention Steyn with his superb back up cast.

Congratulations, Marilize. You must be a very proud girl. That's a great side you have there.

[King Tendulkar]

WE HAVE LOST. I am gutted.

[King Tendulkar]

O wait a minute god is still at the crease. We can still draw!

[dial_100]

Quote by The Outsider

dial, I am not contesting that spinners are going to be more effective as the match progresses. I am sure all can agree to that.

Neither am I saying that Kumble, Warne, and Murali would always pick up wickets on the first day. My point is that when you are playing 2 fast bowlers and 2 spinners, the spinners should be picked only on the expectation that they will deliver on the first day, not as much as on the 4th or 5th obviously but pick up some wickets or at the very least bottle things up. Tell me how is it a practical strategy to have 2 fast bowlers be your only strike weapons for 90 overs on pitches like these? And this was not a first day Headingly surface - there was turn here even on day 1.

You can go in with two spinners if they are Kumble and an in form Harbhajan or Warne and MacGill because you can expect them to deliver a few wickets even on the first day or at the very least build up pressure for the other bowlers. Will they always deliver? No, but you cannot build your bowling strategy around just 2 bowlers for the length of the first innings if you happen to field first. You should not be playing this 2 spinner, 2 fast bowler combination if your spin resources are a disoriented Harbhajan and Amit Mishra and then use that as an excuse for conceding 550 runs.



What's the point? They are not likely to bowl in the 4th innings now because of the damage which has already been done in the first innings. And if they do get a bowl in the 4th innings with even 150 to defend it will be no thanks to them. Even so, would you back them to bowl South Africa out for 150 in the 4th innings?

Right. but we had 4 bowlers so even Zaheer and Ishant couldn't break the partnership for long time. And this long is almost 100 overs. THe other guy, we could get him out at all. So it was overall failure. Not just the spinners. We dropped catches. whatever chances we had, had we taken those, we might as well had a relatively small target of 400+

[BossBhai]

Quote by dial_100

Right. but we had 4 bowlers so even Zaheer and Ishant couldn't break the partnership for long time. And this long is almost 100 overs. THe other guy, we could get him out at all. So it was overall failure. Not just the spinners. We dropped catches. whatever chances we had, had we taken those, we might as well had a relatively small target of 400+

That other guy was either sooo lucky our sooo lousy that he could not even get withing 2-3 inches on about atleast 2 dozen occasions to Mishra ... one very strange inngs that was ...

[Online]

It's always easier to support a team when positive things are happening. The true test is being loyal to a team when they are down. You can be critical of your team, but you don't have to throw in the towel when adversity hits

[dial_100]

Quote by BossBhai

That other guy was either sooo lucky our sooo lousy that he could not even get withing 2-3 inches on about atleast 2 dozen occasions to Mishra ... one very strange inngs that was ...

Yeah I know what you mean Bossy... we were bit unlucky. He misjudged the turn zillion times....got lucky everytime...neways...that guy alone score more than our entire team..

[vvvslaxman]

Actually it won't hurt as much as the root canal pain i am enduring.

[akshayxyz]

This one is going to hurt because - last month England saved two tests and win one against SA in SA.. and same SA side is looking at innings win against India in India :(

[BossBhai]

Quote by Online

It's always easier to support a team when positive things are happening. The true test is being loyal to a team when they are down. You can be critical of your team, but you don't have to throw in the towel when adversity hits

Spot on Saaar ! This is the essence of Cricket ( excluding the hit and giggle vareity )

[Gunner_Mania]

My local BBC radio station talked about the India match today because Steyn is the overseas player for Warwickshire county. They couldn't be remotely arsed about a cricket match in India but they just had to mention it today to compound an already miserable day

[Karan114]

It is really sinking in now. The Kolkata game is going to be an anxious watch

[vvvslaxman]

Quote by Karan114

It is really sinking in now. The Kolkata game is going to be an anxious watch

They will try to draw the match.

[laaloo]

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63920.html

[Online]

Quote by laaloo

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63920.html

some interesting things from that scoresheet (apart from the obvious)

SS Das was hit wicket

Dravid was run out!

and God made 10 in both the innings

[yoda]

For some reason doesn't hurt knowing well that we are missing RD and VVS. Also SAF are bowling their hearts out and I feel like they deserve to crush us.

[BossBhai]

Quote by Online

some interesting things from that scoresheet (apart from the obvious)

SS Das was hit wicket

Dravid was run out!

and God made 10 in both the innings

the diff between that match and here is we had wiped out the deficit by the end of 3rd days play .... but here we are still trailing by a mere 259 runs

[Karan114]

Quote by yoda

For some reason doesn't hurt knowing well that we are missing RD and VVS. Also SAF are bowling their hearts out and I feel like they deserve to crush us.

I wish I could rationalize my feelings in that way but just can't. A Test defeat, especially a home Test defeat, is a really bad feeling. ODI/T20I losses don't affect me so much unless it is a World Cup game. But Tests are a different matter, especially this being a two Test series so no chance of winning and facing a mountain to climb to even draw it now and keep our unbeaten home record of a number of years intact.

[laaloo]

Quote by Karan114

I wish I could rationalize my feelings in that way but just can't. A Test defeat, especially a home Test defeat, is a horrible feeling. ODI/T20I losses don't affect me so much unless it is a World Cup game. But Tests are a different matter, especially this being a two Test series so no chance of winning and facing a mountain to climb to even draw it now and keep our unbeaten home record of a number of years intact.

Especially considering the fact that our spinners were awful. Bhajji was sh1t. Not too forget that Steyn and Morkel were reverse swinging the ball at will. Our bowlers had no aggression.

[Karan114]

^^ No doubt the bowlers were utter **** whereas we were facing some brilliant stuff from their pacers, but even so, losing six wickets for 12 runs and seven wickets for 41 runs playing at home is absolutely pathetic. When a team is thrashed by an innings it means both the batting and bowling has flopped.