Is this the end of the Aussie juggernaut?

Is this the end of the Aussie juggernaut? · 03-09-2008, 09:35 AM

There's been a talk going around in the Aussie media (not the Indian ones fellas so don’t call it Indian media hype), Aussie juggernaut is on the fall and Indian dominance has started in world cricket. How much truth is there in it? Surely India has done well enough in Australia to warrant a good praise but is this praise a bit too high? I think there is certain truth and a little bit of exaggeration in this opinion. Man to man India will rather appear better than Australia in test cricket whereas Australian ODI team man to man is far superior to India’s.

For a test team to dominate the following ingredients are must:

3 world class fast bowlers and couple of decent pacers in the bench
One excellent wicket keeper that doesn't let go off chances behind stumps and its all the more merry if he can score heavily
High quality slip catching
A world class spinner with lots of experience or talent
Experienced batsmen that have experience on different tracks in most test playing nations
A captain that has plenty of international cricket experience

Does Australia have all the above ingredients? I don't think they do at this point in time. Their catching is dismal in the slips, they lack quality spinner that can win games overseas and in particular in sub continent. Now with Gilly’s retirement they are going to be using a wicket keeper that is yet to be tested in international cricket. Unless they can find a spinner if not a couple, a wicket keeper that will be half as good as Gilly and improve catching they will struggle to dominate as they used to.

I think India and South Africa boast good fast bowling options, quality wicket keepers that can win games with the bat too and top catchers in the slips/gully. Add to that India has Anil Kumble who's one of the best bowlers ever. India will certainly struggle when he retires. As for batting, Indian batting is far too superior to Saffies. Aussie batting can match Indian batting but their lack of spin bowling option will be a thorn. Saffies have a good pace attack but lack world class spin bowler. They have good batting resources but that can't be termed as great.

I'll leave it up to you guys to decide if Aussies are vulnerable or not at this point in time. I think India can challenge Australia in test matches and will come up trumps more than Australia will.

As for ODI team the following are considered a winning formula :

Aggressive batsmen at the top that can make good use of power play
Exciting fearless faster bowlers that don't mind going for runs as long as they can pick up wickets
Couple of good all rounders.
A good enough spin bowler that knows to contain runs
Couple of medium pacers that can vary the pace well
Explosive wicket keeper batsman that can add to the balance of the team
Big hitters in the lower middle order to boost the run rate towards the end of the inning
Top notch fielding unit
A good finisher in the middle or lower middle order
Couple of batsmen that are good enough to share 10 overs between them

I think Australia fits the bill for a top notch one day unit and no wonder they have won the world cup thrice. With Gilly's retirement they will have a huge shoe to fill in but Gilly has been off colour for a long time with the bat and may not hurt Australia much at all. Hogg was not such a bad bowler in ODIs and his retirement may hurt Australia a bit. Clarke and Symonds are good enough to share 10 overs between them. Australia hasn't had a quality all rounder but has had the luxury of 4 bowlers that were as good as they can get.

India is slowly starting to realize a good ODI team. India has couple of good quality bowlers and batsmen in the rank. India is not as rich in the batting department. Bowling is in good hands and we have seen that through out the Aussie summer. Both fast and spin bowling options have been pretty good. Pathan is a decent all rounder if not the best going around. Indian batting is still a bit thin and lacks depth. Rohit Sharma and Uthappa have not set the world on fire yet. I think India still is not up there as for ODI team is concerned. They probably have set the right foot and have good set of players to rely on. It's still too early to consider them as the top ODI units going around.

Dhondy · 03-09-2008, 11:13 AM

Hi Ravi.

I see this threnody, moaning the decline of Aussies as nothing but envious "other" cricketing nations to downplay the scale of India's achievement. We Indians should be the last ones subscribing to it.

A 16 match winning streak in Tests, three back to back world cups and a thirty point lead on the Test rankings are not the product of fluke and chance. This is after all, a side that thumped England and SL 7-0.

True, McGrath and Warne are irreplaceable, but in Lee, Johnson and Clark, they have a wonderful attack capable of workhorses that can blast sides out or wear them down through back-breaking toil, as the situation demands. Given their prodigious academies, a world class spinner can't be too far away.

Again, Haddin has been chomping at the bits, and will form an able replacement for the fading Gilly and Jaques has already slotted in seamlessly into the hiatus left by Langer. I don't see what the fuss is all about.

They would have destroyed Pakistan in Pakistan. All the more pity that the relieved fans of that perenially losing nation will now get to puff out their chests and proclaim that Australia were there for the taking.

That they were, but only for a side populated by the genius of a Tendulkar, Sehwag or Laxman, and the mercurial talent of an Ishant or RP, or the rock solid implacability of a Kumble.

The rest of the world can dream on. The Aussies ain't going anywhere.

Cricketics · 03-09-2008, 05:57 PM

well if you are talking about test cricket.. then yes surely. offcourse they won't become as pathetic as bangladesh in test cricket but surely would be average side and would continue to win regularly.. but we won't see them winning and playing as competitive cricket as they used to do during the Waughz era and the warney/mcgrath timez.

in odi's.. jus tlike how Indian side seems to be the strongest on paper.. their side seems to be the best ODI team on paper and not only on paper.. they ha ppen to play the most aggressive odi cricket.. i won't say we would see a decline of them in ODI'S.. they had this slight slump in odi's.. they are still pretty strong in odi's..

Bumper · 03-09-2008, 06:15 PM

Its a typical overreaction from the media & the fans after an Australian loss. It happened everytime in the past, after an Australian loss. It happened in 2003/04, happened in 2005 Ashes, happened after Aussies's loss to Eng & NZ before the world cup & its happening now.

Aussies were a victim of their own aggression, in this series. They refused to respect the young Indian bowling attack. They refused to play conventional cricket on low scoring pitches. Inspite of being out of form, most of their top order opted to blitz the opposition, which they have done so well all these years. In this series it didnt come off, because for the first time in many years, India managed to get many of their players firing together. Our opening bowlers got wickets. Our slow bowlers kept up the pressure in the middle and our death bowling too was great. Such performances, had been wasted by our batsmen in the past, but in this series, we saw even our batsmen firing to support our bowlers. The result was a hard and well earned series win.

Now coming back to the Aussies, I think they will still be a very good team in both forms of the game, for their ability to make the most out of their talent. However they will no longer be the dominant force that they are today.

In ODIs, Aussies have won a plethora of BIG games, by either blitzing their opponents with their aggressive batting or by running thru sides with their great bowling lineup. With the likes of McGrath, Gilly, Hogg & Hayden (soon to follow) retiring, the Aussies will have too many boots to fill too quickly. The Aussie top three is the key to their batting fortunes. Once you shake their top order, their batting powers will be reduced by half. With Gilly & Hayden gone, they will no longer to be able to post 300+ totals as easily as they used to.

In Tests too, Gilly's & Hayden's retirement will hurt (more so by Hayden's). Hayden more often than not, manages to get on top of the opponent bowlers & quickly saps the morale out of their opponents. His big presence in the middle & his bullying batting have played a huge role in keeping the winning streak of the Aussies going. Lack of a quality spinner & lack of a McGrathesque bowler will hurt their chances in subcontinental conditions. I dont expect their 'hit the deck hard' type bowlers (Johnson), to do well, on lifeless subcontinental pitches. Even Stuart Clark who depends so much on gentle seam movements for his success, will struggle in dead wickets. Because this bowling lineup is inexperienced, they will start doubting themselves when things arent going their way. Thats when the character of their young bowlers will be truly tested.

In short, Aussies will continue to be a very good team, a benchmark for success and an example for other teams to follow, but will no longer be the invincible team they used to be. Opponents now know that if they bring their A-game to the table, they can beat the Aussies in both forms of the game, as the Aussies no longer have a McGrath or a Warney or a Gilly to call up on to pull them out of the woods.

King · 03-09-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote by Dhondy

Hi Ravi.

I see this threnody, moaning the decline of Aussies as nothing but envious "other" cricketing nations to downplay the scale of India's achievement. We Indians should be the last ones subscribing to it.

A 16 match winning streak in Tests, three back to back world cups and a thirty point lead on the Test rankings are not the product of fluke and chance. This is after all, a side that thumped England and SL 7-0.

True, McGrath and Warne are irreplaceable, but in Lee, Johnson and Clark, they have a wonderful attack capable of workhorses that can blast sides out or wear them down through back-breaking toil, as the situation demands. Given their prodigious academies, a world class spinner can't be too far away.

Again, Haddin has been chomping at the bits, and will form an able replacement for the fading Gilly and Jaques has already slotted in seamlessly into the hiatus left by Langer. I don't see what the fuss is all about.

They would have destroyed Pakistan in Pakistan. All the more pity that the relieved fans of that perenially losing nation will now get to puff out their chests and proclaim that Australia were there for the taking.

That they were, but only for a side populated by the genius of a Tendulkar, Sehwag or Laxman, and the mercurial talent of an Ishant or RP, or the rock solid implacability of a Kumble.

The rest of the world can dream on. The Aussies ain't going anywhere.

My article was in reference to the Aussie media (not the media from other cricketing nation) touting Indian cricket taking over the mantle as the top team currently. I don't quite see any reason why India cannot challenge Australia for the mantle in test cricket. Indian team has all the ingredients and the resource to rule the cricket world. I didn’t mean Australia will end up as bad as Bangladesh but only opined they are going to have to fight it out that much harder to be at the top. India and South Africa can give Australia a run for money in test cricket. The rest will as ever be dominated by the Aussies. As for Pakistan, they have no chance whatsoever to match the ability of Australia. Pakistan were beaten by South Africa just few months ago and Pakistan have hardly had any success overseas in the past few years. While West Indies, Pakistan, Bangladesh are in a doldrums; NZ, England and Sri Lanka can at best be considered mediocre test playing nations. It’ll be an interesting tiff for the mantle of who will end up the top team in test cricket, Australia, India or South Africa.

Anakin · 03-10-2008, 03:48 AM

In test matches they'll keep on struggling, said it long time back as well. It's not easy to replace McWarne duo who won them so many matches. Their batting is as solid as ever, but that alone doesn't guarantee wins.

Chandan · 03-10-2008, 06:06 AM

Quote by ravi

My article was in reference to the Aussie media (not the media from other cricketing nation) touting Indian cricket taking over the mantle as the top team currently. I don't quite see any reason why India cannot challenge Australia for the mantle in test cricket. Indian team has all the ingredients and the resource to rule the cricket world. I didn’t mean Australia will end up as bad as Bangladesh but only opined they are going to have to fight it out that much harder to be at the top. India and South Africa can give Australia a run for money in test cricket. The rest will as ever be dominated by the Aussies. As for Pakistan, they have no chance whatsoever to match the ability of Australia. Pakistan were beaten by South Africa just few months ago and Pakistan have hardly had any success overseas in the past few years. While West Indies, Pakistan, Bangladesh are in a doldrums; NZ, England and Sri Lanka can at best be considered mediocre test playing nations. It’ll be an interesting tiff for the mantle of who will end up the top team in test cricket, Australia, India or South Africa.

Ravi, taking over the mantle would mean that India would keep on ruling the test cricket for say at least next 5 years. I disagree there. 5 of India's most experienced players and the core of the test side would be retiring in the next two years. Who'll replace them? How consistent will the replacements' performance be? Will they be able to even hold candle to the present 4 middle order batsmen and our spinner, let aside performing as good as them, or even better them?

At the most India can upstage Australia from the number one position just for few days or at the most a few months, only for Australia to reclaim it from them.

Hence I look at all these 'passing the mantle' talk as a huuuuuuuge exaggeration, nothing else!

desi cartman · 03-10-2008, 06:57 AM

I am sure that Aussies wont be winning as many games as they did in last 10-15 years but they still will win majority of the games.

Even in the last series they couldnt do well because Indian bowling was great but I dont expect this kind of bowling from NZ, Eng , Saf against the Aussies that too consistently.

I am just wondering how the aussie side will look once ponting retires and I suspect thats gonna happen in the next 36 months

King · 03-10-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote by Chandan

Ravi, taking over the mantle would mean that India would keep on ruling the test cricket for say at least next 5 years. I disagree there. 5 of India's most experienced players and the core of the test side would be retiring in the next two years. Who'll replace them? How consistent will the replacements' performance be? Will they be able to even hold candle to the present 4 middle order batsmen and our spinner, let aside performing as good as them, or even better them?

At the most India can upstage Australia from the number one position just for few days or at the most a few months, only for Australia to reclaim it from them.

Hence I look at all these 'passing the mantle' talk as a huuuuuuuge exaggeration, nothing else!

Who are the five you reckon will be retiring? Secondly the bowling attack of India is young and raw but that doesn't mean they are not quality. Other than Anil Kumble I reckon the likes of Rahul, Ganguly, Tendulkar and Laxman will continue to play for 3 more years of test cricket. Even otherwise the likes of Gambhir, Rohit Sharma et al are not that bad. They are quality batsmen. On similar account even Hayden and Ponting may have retired too. Moreover bowlers win test matches and batsmen the ODIs.

Indian cricket fan in CA · 03-11-2008, 08:57 PM

I am not sure if I will go the distance and say Aussie era is over and Indian dominance is on the rise. However, Australia seems to be on the decline mainly becasue of aging players. I like India's chances but the BCCI has to take better care of our pace bowlers. There are too many injuries and that is not acceptable. As long as we have healthy core of pace bowlers, we are the tem to beat. In addition, somebody has to take Sreeshanth and slap him across to concentrate on bowling. We also need Pathan to bowl more sensibly. He should go back to Dennis Lillie MRF camp again and start with basics again. He was horrible during first final. He seem to be having one too many off days.

putrevus · 03-12-2008, 12:41 PM

Ravi you missed one main point to dominate you need to have hunger to win every match they play which Indian team surely lacks, In recent series alone in England and Pakistan, indians were content on living on the leads they got and didnt force for wins in oval and also in Banglore which they could have if not late declarations, to impose yourself on other teams you need to be aggressive which then Captain Dravid and now captain Kumble didn't exhibit.

In Sydney test India were Australia on ropes at 138/6 in spite of bad umpiring decisions which they got, they let tail enders not only get away with good scores but allow them to score at such pace they were almost out of contention to win at the end of day1 , this shows their mental strength which allowed Aussies to win on that day and also the collapse on last day two batsman were given rough decisions what about others they were not able to cope up with the pressure.

Till they acquire that mental toughness and will to succeed they only will have sporadic success but not domination.

The Aussie tail saved one test in 2005 Ashes and almost won another test in the same series that is mental strength and determination which Indians dont have it.They were ready to play role of martyrs at the end of Sydney test but not warriors who were ready to fight till the end and save the match.

Since when is winning last few matches equate to dominance england did win last two matches in finals last year, did they become dominant side?not really so let us fans who know about the game not get carried away by media and wait for this Indian team to do something special before we hail them as next coming of invincibles

King · 03-13-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote by putrevus

Ravi you missed one main point to dominate you need to have hunger to win every match they play which Indian team surely lacks, In recent series alone in England and Pakistan, indians were content on living on the leads they got and didnt force for wins in oval and also in Banglore which they could have if not late declarations, to impose yourself on other teams you need to be aggressive which then Captain Dravid and now captain Kumble didn't exhibit.

In Sydney test India were Australia on ropes at 138/6 in spite of bad umpiring decisions which they got, they let tail enders not only get away with good scores but allow them to score at such pace they were almost out of contention to win at the end of day1 , this shows their mental strength which allowed Aussies to win on that day and also the collapse on last day two batsman were given rough decisions what about others they were not able to cope up with the pressure.

Till they acquire that mental toughness and will to succeed they only will have sporadic success but not domination.

The Aussie tail saved one test in 2005 Ashes and almost won another test in the same series that is mental strength and determination which Indians dont have it.They were ready to play role of martyrs at the end of Sydney test but not warriors who were ready to fight till the end and save the match.

Since when is winning last few matches equate to dominance england did win last two matches in finals last year, did they become dominant side?not really so let us fans who know about the game not get carried away by media and wait for this Indian team to do something special before we hail them as next coming of invincibles

If you start nit picking declarations there were many Aussies have bungled. Even the Sydney test match Ponting delayed the declaration. The Aussies were equally scared to lose a match against India. If India were not mentally tough then I don't quite know who were in the Aussie series. Aussies won the first test match by big margin but India bounced back strongly and never quite looked back for the rest of the series. Sydney test was won by Australia not being mentally tough but by some inept umpiring decisions even on the last day of the test match. It was the Aussies that were mentally down by the end of the test series. Aussies lost in Perth test match against a Rookie Indian bowling attack and you are claiming them to be mentally tough but not the Indians that bounced back so strongly. So much for mental toughness Shaun Tait if you know took a temporary retirement after the Perth test match. Mental toughness is quite a hype these days.

As for CB series we all know who had the last laugh. The likes of Symonds, Hayden and Ponting hailed as mentally tough could not take the heat in the kitchen meanwhile Bhajji, Sreesanth, Ishant, Tendulkar, Rohit Sharma and the likes prevailed. The mental disintegration attempt of the Aussies backfired so much by the end of the series most Aussies were mentally drained. If you were only able to notice the short comings in Indians but not Aussies then I’d say you need to take off the blinkers and have a second look. It’s surprising you are only intent on pointing the last two ODI finals win and forget the test matches completely.

putrevus · 03-13-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote by ravi

If you start nit picking declarations there were many Aussies have bungled. Even the Sydney test match Ponting delayed the declaration. The Aussies were equally scared to lose a match against India. If India were not mentally tough then I don't quite know who were in the Aussie series. Aussies won the first test match by big margin but India bounced back strongly and never quite looked back for the rest of the series. Sydney test was won by Australia not being mentally tough but by some inept umpiring decisions even on the last day of the test match. It was the Aussies that were mentally down by the end of the test series. Aussies lost in Perth test match against a Rookie Indian bowling attack and you are claiming them to be mentally tough but not the Indians that bounced back so strongly. So much for mental toughness Shaun Tait if you know took a temporary retirement after the Perth test match. Mental toughness is quite a hype these days.

As for CB series we all know who had the last laugh. The likes of Symonds, Hayden and Ponting hailed as mentally tough could not take the heat in the kitchen meanwhile Bhajji, Sreesanth, Ishant, Tendulkar, Rohit Sharma and the likes prevailed. The mental disintegration attempt of the Aussies backfired so much by the end of the series most Aussies were mentally drained. If you were only able to notice the short comings in Indians but not Aussies then I’d say you need to take off the blinkers and have a second look. It’s surprising you are only intent on pointing the last two ODI finals win and forget the test matches completely.

I am not nit picking on things which India did but what my point was India never dominated Aussies in test series , they played tough and even with them so to use term Domination is little bit far fetched, at the end of test series it was india who was fighting to save Adelaide test, so test series was evenly matched , how can anyone say India dominated Aussies.

As far as odi series is India played very well in finals and were deserved winners but again England also won last year with same margin so it is not the first time Aussies have been defeated in finals Last year test series Ashes England was white washed so you cannot say it was due to tough test series they lost inlast year's finals which many people in media are pointing to this year to the tough Test series with India .

Let Indians show the consistency which Aussies have shown in past before we use term dominate.

cricajar · 03-15-2008, 03:25 AM

I think a key point overlooked in this article is: India will soon experience the retiring exodus as well.
Do we have some promising players? Absolutely.
But will they certainly fill the shoes of some of India's greatest legends ever?
I'm talking about Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble...even VVS Laxman.
With this unit retiring, its going to leave a huge gap in the middle order for tests and we'll lose a big finisher in kumble.

Futhermore, let me also point out that we've had countless promising bowlers who arrive on the scene only to quickly get injured and disappear from the scene.

Balaji, Nehra, even Irfan...lost his form, Munaf bowled spectacularly against England...Sree was phenomenal in SA but hasn't been the same since...Zaheer has been out for a while...

If we continue to work on injury-avoidance, groom our youngsters, and play consistently then absolutley...we will be a major force in both areas of the game.

03-09-2008, 09:35 AM	#1
Is this the end of the Aussie juggernaut? King The Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,524 King King is offline 03-09-2008, 09:35 AM Rating: () There's been a talk going around in the Aussie media (not the Indian ones fellas so don’t call it Indian media hype), Aussie juggernaut is on the fall and Indian dominance has started in world cricket. How much truth is there in it? Surely India has done well enough in Australia to warrant a good praise but is this praise a bit too high? I think there is certain truth and a little bit of exaggeration in this opinion. Man to man India will rather appear better than Australia in test cricket whereas Australian ODI team man to man is far superior to India’s. For a test team to dominate the following ingredients are must: 3 world class fast bowlers and couple of decent pacers in the bench One excellent wicket keeper that doesn't let go off chances behind stumps and its all the more merry if he can score heavily High quality slip catching A world class spinner with lots of experience or talent Experienced batsmen that have experience on different tracks in most test playing nations A captain that has plenty of international cricket experience Does Australia have all the above ingredients? I don't think they do at this point in time. Their catching is dismal in the slips, they lack quality spinner that can win games overseas and in particular in sub continent. Now with Gilly’s retirement they are going to be using a wicket keeper that is yet to be tested in international cricket. Unless they can find a spinner if not a couple, a wicket keeper that will be half as good as Gilly and improve catching they will struggle to dominate as they used to. I think India and South Africa boast good fast bowling options, quality wicket keepers that can win games with the bat too and top catchers in the slips/gully. Add to that India has Anil Kumble who's one of the best bowlers ever. India will certainly struggle when he retires. As for batting, Indian batting is far too superior to Saffies. Aussie batting can match Indian batting but their lack of spin bowling option will be a thorn. Saffies have a good pace attack but lack world class spin bowler. They have good batting resources but that can't be termed as great. I'll leave it up to you guys to decide if Aussies are vulnerable or not at this point in time. I think India can challenge Australia in test matches and will come up trumps more than Australia will. As for ODI team the following are considered a winning formula : Aggressive batsmen at the top that can make good use of power play Exciting fearless faster bowlers that don't mind going for runs as long as they can pick up wickets Couple of good all rounders. A good enough spin bowler that knows to contain runs Couple of medium pacers that can vary the pace well Explosive wicket keeper batsman that can add to the balance of the team Big hitters in the lower middle order to boost the run rate towards the end of the inning Top notch fielding unit A good finisher in the middle or lower middle order Couple of batsmen that are good enough to share 10 overs between them I think Australia fits the bill for a top notch one day unit and no wonder they have won the world cup thrice. With Gilly's retirement they will have a huge shoe to fill in but Gilly has been off colour for a long time with the bat and may not hurt Australia much at all. Hogg was not such a bad bowler in ODIs and his retirement may hurt Australia a bit. Clarke and Symonds are good enough to share 10 overs between them. Australia hasn't had a quality all rounder but has had the luxury of 4 bowlers that were as good as they can get. India is slowly starting to realize a good ODI team. India has couple of good quality bowlers and batsmen in the rank. India is not as rich in the batting department. Bowling is in good hands and we have seen that through out the Aussie summer. Both fast and spin bowling options have been pretty good. Pathan is a decent all rounder if not the best going around. Indian batting is still a bit thin and lacks depth. Rohit Sharma and Uthappa have not set the world on fire yet. I think India still is not up there as for ODI team is concerned. They probably have set the right foot and have good set of players to rely on. It's still too early to consider them as the top ODI units going around.
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03-09-2008, 05:57 PM	#3
Cricketics Cricketics Wayz Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Near the Stumpz Posts: 16,803 $ICF: 9,867,420	well if you are talking about test cricket.. then yes surely. offcourse they won't become as pathetic as bangladesh in test cricket but surely would be average side and would continue to win regularly.. but we won't see them winning and playing as competitive cricket as they used to do during the Waughz era and the warney/mcgrath timez. in odi's.. jus tlike how Indian side seems to be the strongest on paper.. their side seems to be the best ODI team on paper and not only on paper.. they ha ppen to play the most aggressive odi cricket.. i won't say we would see a decline of them in ODI'S.. they had this slight slump in odi's.. they are still pretty strong in odi's..
	Cricketics Wayz

03-10-2008, 03:48 AM	#6
Anakin The Greatest Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,536 $ICF: 15,063,290	In test matches they'll keep on struggling, said it long time back as well. It's not easy to replace McWarne duo who won them so many matches. Their batting is as solid as ever, but that alone doesn't guarantee wins.
	sssshhh The Boss Is Batting Richie Benaud on SRT

03-10-2008, 06:57 AM	#8
desi cartman The Legend Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 22,987 $ICF: 70,467,494	I am sure that Aussies wont be winning as many games as they did in last 10-15 years but they still will win majority of the games. Even in the last series they couldnt do well because Indian bowling was great but I dont expect this kind of bowling from NZ, Eng , Saf against the Aussies that too consistently. I am just wondering how the aussie side will look once ponting retires and I suspect thats gonna happen in the next 36 months
	I can become fair n handsome for only Rs 7

03-09-2008, 11:13 AM	#2
Dhondy The Wall Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,177 $ICF: 50,024,132 My Blog	Hi Ravi. I see this threnody, moaning the decline of Aussies as nothing but envious "other" cricketing nations to downplay the scale of India's achievement. We Indians should be the last ones subscribing to it. A 16 match winning streak in Tests, three back to back world cups and a thirty point lead on the Test rankings are not the product of fluke and chance. This is after all, a side that thumped England and SL 7-0. True, McGrath and Warne are irreplaceable, but in Lee, Johnson and Clark, they have a wonderful attack capable of workhorses that can blast sides out or wear them down through back-breaking toil, as the situation demands. Given their prodigious academies, a world class spinner can't be too far away. Again, Haddin has been chomping at the bits, and will form an able replacement for the fading Gilly and Jaques has already slotted in seamlessly into the hiatus left by Langer. I don't see what the fuss is all about. They would have destroyed Pakistan in Pakistan. All the more pity that the relieved fans of that perenially losing nation will now get to puff out their chests and proclaim that Australia were there for the taking. That they were, but only for a side populated by the genius of a Tendulkar, Sehwag or Laxman, and the mercurial talent of an Ishant or RP, or the rock solid implacability of a Kumble. The rest of the world can dream on. The Aussies ain't going anywhere.

03-09-2008, 06:15 PM	#4
Bumper Jumbo Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,573 $ICF: 143,191	Its a typical overreaction from the media & the fans after an Australian loss. It happened everytime in the past, after an Australian loss. It happened in 2003/04, happened in 2005 Ashes, happened after Aussies's loss to Eng & NZ before the world cup & its happening now. Aussies were a victim of their own aggression, in this series. They refused to respect the young Indian bowling attack. They refused to play conventional cricket on low scoring pitches. Inspite of being out of form, most of their top order opted to blitz the opposition, which they have done so well all these years. In this series it didnt come off, because for the first time in many years, India managed to get many of their players firing together. Our opening bowlers got wickets. Our slow bowlers kept up the pressure in the middle and our death bowling too was great. Such performances, had been wasted by our batsmen in the past, but in this series, we saw even our batsmen firing to support our bowlers. The result was a hard and well earned series win. Now coming back to the Aussies, I think they will still be a very good team in both forms of the game, for their ability to make the most out of their talent. However they will no longer be the dominant force that they are today. In ODIs, Aussies have won a plethora of BIG games, by either blitzing their opponents with their aggressive batting or by running thru sides with their great bowling lineup. With the likes of McGrath, Gilly, Hogg & Hayden (soon to follow) retiring, the Aussies will have too many boots to fill too quickly. The Aussie top three is the key to their batting fortunes. Once you shake their top order, their batting powers will be reduced by half. With Gilly & Hayden gone, they will no longer to be able to post 300+ totals as easily as they used to. In Tests too, Gilly's & Hayden's retirement will hurt (more so by Hayden's). Hayden more often than not, manages to get on top of the opponent bowlers & quickly saps the morale out of their opponents. His big presence in the middle & his bullying batting have played a huge role in keeping the winning streak of the Aussies going. Lack of a quality spinner & lack of a McGrathesque bowler will hurt their chances in subcontinental conditions. I dont expect their 'hit the deck hard' type bowlers (Johnson), to do well, on lifeless subcontinental pitches. Even Stuart Clark who depends so much on gentle seam movements for his success, will struggle in dead wickets. Because this bowling lineup is inexperienced, they will start doubting themselves when things arent going their way. Thats when the character of their young bowlers will be truly tested. In short, Aussies will continue to be a very good team, a benchmark for success and an example for other teams to follow, but will no longer be the invincible team they used to be. Opponents now know that if they bring their A-game to the table, they can beat the Aussies in both forms of the game, as the Aussies no longer have a McGrath or a Warney or a Gilly to call up on to pull them out of the woods.

03-09-2008, 11:52 PM	#5
King The Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,524 $ICF: 4,264,231 My Blog	Quote by Dhondy Hi Ravi. I see this threnody, moaning the decline of Aussies as nothing but envious "other" cricketing nations to downplay the scale of India's achievement. We Indians should be the last ones subscribing to it. A 16 match winning streak in Tests, three back to back world cups and a thirty point lead on the Test rankings are not the product of fluke and chance. This is after all, a side that thumped England and SL 7-0. True, McGrath and Warne are irreplaceable, but in Lee, Johnson and Clark, they have a wonderful attack capable of workhorses that can blast sides out or wear them down through back-breaking toil, as the situation demands. Given their prodigious academies, a world class spinner can't be too far away. Again, Haddin has been chomping at the bits, and will form an able replacement for the fading Gilly and Jaques has already slotted in seamlessly into the hiatus left by Langer. I don't see what the fuss is all about. They would have destroyed Pakistan in Pakistan. All the more pity that the relieved fans of that perenially losing nation will now get to puff out their chests and proclaim that Australia were there for the taking. That they were, but only for a side populated by the genius of a Tendulkar, Sehwag or Laxman, and the mercurial talent of an Ishant or RP, or the rock solid implacability of a Kumble. The rest of the world can dream on. The Aussies ain't going anywhere. My article was in reference to the Aussie media (not the media from other cricketing nation) touting Indian cricket taking over the mantle as the top team currently. I don't quite see any reason why India cannot challenge Australia for the mantle in test cricket. Indian team has all the ingredients and the resource to rule the cricket world. I didn’t mean Australia will end up as bad as Bangladesh but only opined they are going to have to fight it out that much harder to be at the top. India and South Africa can give Australia a run for money in test cricket. The rest will as ever be dominated by the Aussies. As for Pakistan, they have no chance whatsoever to match the ability of Australia. Pakistan were beaten by South Africa just few months ago and Pakistan have hardly had any success overseas in the past few years. While West Indies, Pakistan, Bangladesh are in a doldrums; NZ, England and Sri Lanka can at best be considered mediocre test playing nations. It’ll be an interesting tiff for the mantle of who will end up the top team in test cricket, Australia, India or South Africa.

03-10-2008, 06:06 AM	#7
Chandan . Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,930 $ICF: 50,813,578	Quote by ravi My article was in reference to the Aussie media (not the media from other cricketing nation) touting Indian cricket taking over the mantle as the top team currently. I don't quite see any reason why India cannot challenge Australia for the mantle in test cricket. Indian team has all the ingredients and the resource to rule the cricket world. I didn’t mean Australia will end up as bad as Bangladesh but only opined they are going to have to fight it out that much harder to be at the top. India and South Africa can give Australia a run for money in test cricket. The rest will as ever be dominated by the Aussies. As for Pakistan, they have no chance whatsoever to match the ability of Australia. Pakistan were beaten by South Africa just few months ago and Pakistan have hardly had any success overseas in the past few years. While West Indies, Pakistan, Bangladesh are in a doldrums; NZ, England and Sri Lanka can at best be considered mediocre test playing nations. It’ll be an interesting tiff for the mantle of who will end up the top team in test cricket, Australia, India or South Africa. Ravi, taking over the mantle would mean that India would keep on ruling the test cricket for say at least next 5 years. I disagree there. 5 of India's most experienced players and the core of the test side would be retiring in the next two years. Who'll replace them? How consistent will the replacements' performance be? Will they be able to even hold candle to the present 4 middle order batsmen and our spinner, let aside performing as good as them, or even better them? At the most India can upstage Australia from the number one position just for few days or at the most a few months, only for Australia to reclaim it from them. Hence I look at all these 'passing the mantle' talk as a huuuuuuuge exaggeration, nothing else!

03-10-2008, 11:09 AM	#9
King The Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,524 $ICF: 4,264,231 My Blog	Quote by Chandan Ravi, taking over the mantle would mean that India would keep on ruling the test cricket for say at least next 5 years. I disagree there. 5 of India's most experienced players and the core of the test side would be retiring in the next two years. Who'll replace them? How consistent will the replacements' performance be? Will they be able to even hold candle to the present 4 middle order batsmen and our spinner, let aside performing as good as them, or even better them? At the most India can upstage Australia from the number one position just for few days or at the most a few months, only for Australia to reclaim it from them. Hence I look at all these 'passing the mantle' talk as a huuuuuuuge exaggeration, nothing else! Who are the five you reckon will be retiring? Secondly the bowling attack of India is young and raw but that doesn't mean they are not quality. Other than Anil Kumble I reckon the likes of Rahul, Ganguly, Tendulkar and Laxman will continue to play for 3 more years of test cricket. Even otherwise the likes of Gambhir, Rohit Sharma et al are not that bad. They are quality batsmen. On similar account even Hayden and Ponting may have retired too. Moreover bowlers win test matches and batsmen the ODIs.

03-11-2008, 08:57 PM	#10
Indian cricket fan in CA Turbanator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 62 $ICF: 6,236	I am not sure if I will go the distance and say Aussie era is over and Indian dominance is on the rise. However, Australia seems to be on the decline mainly becasue of aging players. I like India's chances but the BCCI has to take better care of our pace bowlers. There are too many injuries and that is not acceptable. As long as we have healthy core of pace bowlers, we are the tem to beat. In addition, somebody has to take Sreeshanth and slap him across to concentrate on bowling. We also need Pathan to bowl more sensibly. He should go back to Dennis Lillie MRF camp again and start with basics again. He was horrible during first final. He seem to be having one too many off days.

03-12-2008, 12:41 PM	#11
putrevus Hyderabadi biryani Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,287 $ICF: 44,758	Ravi you missed one main point to dominate you need to have hunger to win every match they play which Indian team surely lacks, In recent series alone in England and Pakistan, indians were content on living on the leads they got and didnt force for wins in oval and also in Banglore which they could have if not late declarations, to impose yourself on other teams you need to be aggressive which then Captain Dravid and now captain Kumble didn't exhibit. In Sydney test India were Australia on ropes at 138/6 in spite of bad umpiring decisions which they got, they let tail enders not only get away with good scores but allow them to score at such pace they were almost out of contention to win at the end of day1 , this shows their mental strength which allowed Aussies to win on that day and also the collapse on last day two batsman were given rough decisions what about others they were not able to cope up with the pressure. Till they acquire that mental toughness and will to succeed they only will have sporadic success but not domination. The Aussie tail saved one test in 2005 Ashes and almost won another test in the same series that is mental strength and determination which Indians dont have it.They were ready to play role of martyrs at the end of Sydney test but not warriors who were ready to fight till the end and save the match. Since when is winning last few matches equate to dominance england did win last two matches in finals last year, did they become dominant side?not really so let us fans who know about the game not get carried away by media and wait for this Indian team to do something special before we hail them as next coming of invincibles

03-13-2008, 12:23 AM	#12
King The Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11,524 $ICF: 4,264,231 My Blog	Quote by putrevus Ravi you missed one main point to dominate you need to have hunger to win every match they play which Indian team surely lacks, In recent series alone in England and Pakistan, indians were content on living on the leads they got and didnt force for wins in oval and also in Banglore which they could have if not late declarations, to impose yourself on other teams you need to be aggressive which then Captain Dravid and now captain Kumble didn't exhibit. In Sydney test India were Australia on ropes at 138/6 in spite of bad umpiring decisions which they got, they let tail enders not only get away with good scores but allow them to score at such pace they were almost out of contention to win at the end of day1 , this shows their mental strength which allowed Aussies to win on that day and also the collapse on last day two batsman were given rough decisions what about others they were not able to cope up with the pressure. Till they acquire that mental toughness and will to succeed they only will have sporadic success but not domination. The Aussie tail saved one test in 2005 Ashes and almost won another test in the same series that is mental strength and determination which Indians dont have it.They were ready to play role of martyrs at the end of Sydney test but not warriors who were ready to fight till the end and save the match. Since when is winning last few matches equate to dominance england did win last two matches in finals last year, did they become dominant side?not really so let us fans who know about the game not get carried away by media and wait for this Indian team to do something special before we hail them as next coming of invincibles If you start nit picking declarations there were many Aussies have bungled. Even the Sydney test match Ponting delayed the declaration. The Aussies were equally scared to lose a match against India. If India were not mentally tough then I don't quite know who were in the Aussie series. Aussies won the first test match by big margin but India bounced back strongly and never quite looked back for the rest of the series. Sydney test was won by Australia not being mentally tough but by some inept umpiring decisions even on the last day of the test match. It was the Aussies that were mentally down by the end of the test series. Aussies lost in Perth test match against a Rookie Indian bowling attack and you are claiming them to be mentally tough but not the Indians that bounced back so strongly. So much for mental toughness Shaun Tait if you know took a temporary retirement after the Perth test match. Mental toughness is quite a hype these days. As for CB series we all know who had the last laugh. The likes of Symonds, Hayden and Ponting hailed as mentally tough could not take the heat in the kitchen meanwhile Bhajji, Sreesanth, Ishant, Tendulkar, Rohit Sharma and the likes prevailed. The mental disintegration attempt of the Aussies backfired so much by the end of the series most Aussies were mentally drained. If you were only able to notice the short comings in Indians but not Aussies then I’d say you need to take off the blinkers and have a second look. It’s surprising you are only intent on pointing the last two ODI finals win and forget the test matches completely.

03-13-2008, 09:36 PM	#13
putrevus Hyderabadi biryani Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,287 $ICF: 44,758	Quote by ravi If you start nit picking declarations there were many Aussies have bungled. Even the Sydney test match Ponting delayed the declaration. The Aussies were equally scared to lose a match against India. If India were not mentally tough then I don't quite know who were in the Aussie series. Aussies won the first test match by big margin but India bounced back strongly and never quite looked back for the rest of the series. Sydney test was won by Australia not being mentally tough but by some inept umpiring decisions even on the last day of the test match. It was the Aussies that were mentally down by the end of the test series. Aussies lost in Perth test match against a Rookie Indian bowling attack and you are claiming them to be mentally tough but not the Indians that bounced back so strongly. So much for mental toughness Shaun Tait if you know took a temporary retirement after the Perth test match. Mental toughness is quite a hype these days. As for CB series we all know who had the last laugh. The likes of Symonds, Hayden and Ponting hailed as mentally tough could not take the heat in the kitchen meanwhile Bhajji, Sreesanth, Ishant, Tendulkar, Rohit Sharma and the likes prevailed. The mental disintegration attempt of the Aussies backfired so much by the end of the series most Aussies were mentally drained. If you were only able to notice the short comings in Indians but not Aussies then I’d say you need to take off the blinkers and have a second look. It’s surprising you are only intent on pointing the last two ODI finals win and forget the test matches completely. I am not nit picking on things which India did but what my point was India never dominated Aussies in test series , they played tough and even with them so to use term Domination is little bit far fetched, at the end of test series it was india who was fighting to save Adelaide test, so test series was evenly matched , how can anyone say India dominated Aussies. As far as odi series is India played very well in finals and were deserved winners but again England also won last year with same margin so it is not the first time Aussies have been defeated in finals Last year test series Ashes England was white washed so you cannot say it was due to tough test series they lost inlast year's finals which many people in media are pointing to this year to the tough Test series with India . Let Indians show the consistency which Aussies have shown in past before we use term dominate.

03-15-2008, 03:25 AM	#14
cricajar Turbanator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 92 $ICF: 359	I think a key point overlooked in this article is: India will soon experience the retiring exodus as well. Do we have some promising players? Absolutely. But will they certainly fill the shoes of some of India's greatest legends ever? I'm talking about Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble...even VVS Laxman. With this unit retiring, its going to leave a huge gap in the middle order for tests and we'll lose a big finisher in kumble. Futhermore, let me also point out that we've had countless promising bowlers who arrive on the scene only to quickly get injured and disappear from the scene. Balaji, Nehra, even Irfan...lost his form, Munaf bowled spectacularly against England...Sree was phenomenal in SA but hasn't been the same since...Zaheer has been out for a while... If we continue to work on injury-avoidance, groom our youngsters, and play consistently then absolutley...we will be a major force in both areas of the game.