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Steve Smith hands down is the best batsman in the world


maniac

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It's obvious that I've punched above the intellectual capacity of some posters here.

 

Let me come down to a level where you'll be comfortable. I concede Steve Smith is clearly the best, on the basis of him batting well against a bowling attack that lost 5-0 in the same conditions.

 

top 3 batsmen ever !!

 

1. Steve smith

2. Sangakarra

3, jayawardene

 

Yay!

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2 hours ago, AmreekanDesi said:

Clearly you don't understand much cricket if you're going to use such childish arguments

 

cricket is not a linear game lol

Lol I think you should take a look in the mirror....

whilst it's not a linear game, it shows that if a tail ender can amass 42, the batting conditions were not that hostile. Please think about what I'm even trying to say before making grandiose statements 

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On 11/25/2017 at 10:32 AM, mancalledsting said:

I don't delete records altogether, I just add caveats and interpretation of figures. That's what you do in science when a research group presents you with data in a peer reviewed journal, you don't just follow it blindly but you look at the particulars pertaining to data collection at that point in time. I never just look at the data blindly.

 

Your point is based on misinterpretation of what I'm trying to say (not saying you're doing it deliberately or venemously). 

 

I have no objection in saying Steve Smith had an excellent series in India earlier this year, some innings of which were in turning conditions. That's just plain fact- gotta be in serious denial to not agree with that. But I do have issue with extrapolating that like a simpleton and making superlative statements like he is the "superior player of spin bowling in turning conditions" when there's so much more to the story. 

 

I apply the same standard to Indian players and foreign players alike as evidenced by the following statements:

 

1. Sunny gavaskars series in the early 1970s vs West Indies should not be used as evidence of him being able handle the ATG pace West Indian attack in West Indian conditions 

 

2. Matthew Hayden had a phenomenal series vs India in 2001 and he can be considered to be an ATG vs spin 

 

3. Glen McGrath and dale steyn are clearly ATG quick bowlers- they have fantastic records in India against some of the ATG batsmen in their home conditions 

 

4. Sehwag'a triple century vs pak in multan whilst an excellent achievement was seriously helped by dropped catches- as was karun nairs vs England

 

my friend earlier this year told me KL Rahul will definitely bat well overseas because he scored a hundred at the SCG on debut. First thing I said was don't use that a categorical evidence as that SCG wicket was a patta and proves motion and that even shikhar dhawan has a test century in NZ. Btw- kl Rahul is one of my favourite players as evidence by my numerous posts backing him.

 

the bottom line for me, I don't appreciate over hype of players, Indian or foreign as credit given should always been proportionate to that earned

Yes, he did but I'm not sold on that Indian spin attack being truly high quality. Bhajji had a dream series but it was otherwise a very weak spin attack. The likes of Bahutule and whoever else bowled were pretty ordinary. Second, the Kolkata pitch was not too hard to bat on, and neither was the Chennai pitch in my opinion.

 

I don't know if I would consider Hayden at ATG - I'd certainly consider him amongst the best of his generation.

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1 hour ago, Vijy said:

Yes, he did but I'm not sold on that Indian spin attack being truly high quality. Bhajji had a dream series but it was otherwise a very weak spin attack. The likes of Bahutule and whoever else bowled were pretty ordinary. Second, the Kolkata pitch was not too hard to bat on, and neither was the Chennai pitch in my opinion.

 

I don't know if I would consider Hayden at ATG - I'd certainly consider him amongst the best of his generation.

fair point 

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I hate making this into a Smith vs Kohli comparison but Smith in tests along with his magical average has played some clutch knocks even in tests case in point the current game where as haven’t seen many clutch knocks by Kohli in tests...The Adelaide test probably being the closest one.

 

In ODIs sure Kohli is one of the greatest clutch players of all time especially in a chase but still the ICC knockouts where it matters he has failed...the CT 2013 was probably his best knocks...Smith on the other hand delivered in 3 World Cup knockout games which puts him right up there...overall in ODIS Kohli obviously but still Smith is not that far behind.

 

in T20s Kohli is god...no one is even close to him...I am sure Smith is not even close to being the Top10 T20 bats in the world right now but again the weight given to T20s would be very less and Smith is not the worst T20 player atleast going by his IPL exploits especially the IPL final even though that is not a benchmark. He had to be almost at Cook or Trott level in this format for Kohli to edge ahead overall.

 

Overall At this point Smith...but again sample size is too less....both have played only 2 WCs(was smith even in the squad in 2011?)

 

but the sheer amount of clutch knocks and the godly test average puts Smith a little higher but Kohli has a chance to catch up especially if he delivers a series winning performance in SA will put him ahead.

 

Once in a while it is good to look beyond pseudo patriotism and give credit where due.

 

Smith is no.1 Kohli is 2nd and then there is a gap between these 2 & Root,Williamson,AB,Warner etc etc

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51 minutes ago, maniac said:

I hate making this into a Smith vs Kohli comparison but Smith in tests along with his magical average has played some clutch knocks even in tests case in point the current game where as haven’t seen many clutch knocks by Kohli in tests...The Adelaide test probably being the closest one.

 

In ODIs sure Kohli is one of the greatest clutch players of all time especially in a chase but still the ICC knockouts where it matters he has failed...the CT 2013 was probably his best knocks...Smith on the other hand delivered in 3 World Cup knockout games which puts him right up there...overall in ODIS Kohli obviously but still Smith is not that far behind.

 

in T20s Kohli is god...no one is even close to him...I am sure Smith is not even close to being the Top10 T20 bats in the world right now but again the weight given to T20s would be very less and Smith is not the worst T20 player atleast going by his IPL exploits especially the IPL final even though that is not a benchmark. He had to be almost at Cook or Trott level in this format for Kohli to edge ahead overall.

 

Overall At this point Smith...but again sample size is too less....both have played only 2 WCs(was smith even in the squad in 2011?)

 

but the sheer amount of clutch knocks and the godly test average puts Smith a little higher but Kohli has a chance to catch up especially if he delivers a series winning performance in SA will put him ahead.

 

Once in a while it is good to look beyond pseudo patriotism and give credit where due.

 

Smith is no.1 Kohli is 2nd and then there is a gap between these 2 & Root,Williamson,AB,Warner etc etc

Agree with the post, I do believe untill Kohli scores again in South Africa, where he has already done decent, and also does well in England, I will marginally put Root ahead of Kohli in test. 

 

Kohli is Ahead of Root in LOIs but I would put Smith --Root---Kohli for next three to six months. This is even after Kohli has smashed 4 double hundreds in last 6 series. I have to take into account that some of the toughest series are coming and we must wait before I put Kohli ahead of Root. Smith will stay number for at least another 15-18 months I feel or may be longer. I am already kind of worrying how we are going to get him out when we go there. From last to tours there have been two guys who have killed us big time, Michael Clarke and Smith, and Smith is still around and it might become real hard for us to get him out again as he seems to be getting better and better. 

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

I hate making this into a Smith vs Kohli comparison but Smith in tests along with his magical average has played some clutch knocks even in tests case in point the current game where as haven’t seen many clutch knocks by Kohli in tests...The Adelaide test probably being the closest one.

 

In ODIs sure Kohli is one of the greatest clutch players of all time especially in a chase but still the ICC knockouts where it matters he has failed...the CT 2013 was probably his best knocks...Smith on the other hand delivered in 3 World Cup knockout games which puts him right up there...overall in ODIS Kohli obviously but still Smith is not that far behind.

 

in T20s Kohli is god...no one is even close to him...I am sure Smith is not even close to being the Top10 T20 bats in the world right now but again the weight given to T20s would be very less and Smith is not the worst T20 player atleast going by his IPL exploits especially the IPL final even though that is not a benchmark. He had to be almost at Cook or Trott level in this format for Kohli to edge ahead overall.

 

Overall At this point Smith...but again sample size is too less....both have played only 2 WCs(was smith even in the squad in 2011?)

 

but the sheer amount of clutch knocks and the godly test average puts Smith a little higher but Kohli has a chance to catch up especially if he delivers a series winning performance in SA will put him ahead.

 

Once in a while it is good to look beyond pseudo patriotism and give credit where due.

 

Smith is no.1 Kohli is 2nd and then there is a gap between these 2 & Root,Williamson,AB,Warner etc etc

One must differentiate between match-winners and batsmen who are technically complete (or very consistent). For instance, I'd call Sachin the most technically complete batsman of the past two generations (~ 30 yrs) during the majority of his career (1993-2011) but that doesn't make him the "best" or "greatest" batsman of his generation since Lara was probably more accomplished as a match winner. Another example is Chanders vs Lara; the latter was clearly the bigger match winner but the former was more consistent. Hence, when one makes a call on the "greatest" batsman, I believe that both aspects merit consideration.

 

My top 5 in Tests among players currently playing now (not based on current form, but those who are currently in the team) is as follows. I have also chosen to ignore home/away distinctions for the most part since a win is a win.

 

Match-winners: Stewie, Amla, Root, Williamson, VK (HTBs: Warner & Pujara)

Most complete players: Stewie, ABDV, Williamson, Amla, VK (mention: Root)

 

If we include players in current form, then I'd swap Amla and ABDV and bring in the ones inside the brackets.

Edited by Vijy
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One must differentiate between match-winners and batsmen who are technically complete (or very consistent). For instance, I'd call Sachin the most technically complete batsman of the past two generations (~ 30 yrs) during the majority of his career (1993-2011) but that doesn't make him the "best" or "greatest" batsman of his generation since Lara was probably more accomplished as a match winner. Another example is Chanders vs Lara; the latter was clearly the bigger match winner but the former was more consistent. Hence, when one makes a call on the "greatest" batsman, I believe that both aspects merit consideration.
 
My top 5 in Tests among players currently playing now (not based on current form, but those who are currently in the team) is as follows. I have also chosen to ignore home/away distinctions for the most part since a win is a win.
 
Match-winners: Stewie, Amla, Root, Williamson, VK (HTBs: Warner & Pujara)
Most complete players: Stewie, ABDV, Williamson, Amla, VK (mention: Root)
 
If we include players in current form, then I'd swap Amla and ABDV and bring in the ones inside the brackets.
I don't agree Sachin was not a match winner look at every indian victory Sachin has played a major role even with ball in crucial junctures.
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16 hours ago, Vijy said:

One must differentiate between match-winners and batsmen who are technically complete (or very consistent). For instance, I'd call Sachin the most technically complete batsman of the past two generations (~ 30 yrs) during the majority of his career (1993-2011) but that doesn't make him the "best" or "greatest" batsman of his generation since Lara was probably more accomplished as a match winner. Another example is Chanders vs Lara; the latter was clearly the bigger match winner but the former was more consistent. Hence, when one makes a call on the "greatest" batsman, I believe that both aspects merit consideration.

 

My top 5 in Tests among players currently playing now (not based on current form, but those who are currently in the team) is as follows. I have also chosen to ignore home/away distinctions for the most part since a win is a win.

 

Match-winners: Stewie, Amla, Root, Williamson, VK (HTBs: Warner & Pujara)

Most complete players: Stewie, ABDV, Williamson, Amla, VK (mention: Root)

 

If we include players in current form, then I'd swap Amla and ABDV and bring in the ones inside the brackets.

16 hours ago, Vijy said:

One must differentiate between match-winners and batsmen who are technically complete (or very consistent). For instance, I'd call Sachin the most technically complete batsman of the past two generations (~ 30 yrs) during the majority of his career (1993-2011) but that doesn't make him the "best" or "greatest" batsman of his generation since Lara was probably more accomplished as a match winner. Another example is Chanders vs Lara; the latter was clearly the bigger match winner but the former was more consistent. Hence, when one makes a call on the "greatest" batsman, I believe that both aspects merit consideration.

 

My top 5 in Tests among players currently playing now (not based on current form, but those who are currently in the team) is as follows. I have also chosen to ignore home/away distinctions for the most part since a win is a win.

 

Match-winners: Stewie, Amla, Root, Williamson, VK (HTBs: Warner & Pujara)

Most complete players: Stewie, ABDV, Williamson, Amla, VK (mention: Root)

 

If we include players in current form, then I'd swap Amla and ABDV and bring in the ones inside the brackets.

Lara is hyped up because of one single Australia series. Sachin has things like an unbeaten 100 in the highest 4th innings chase in India and two brilliant innings in the only ODI series win we ever had in Australia and two back to back 100s in the first win against Australia outside India. But totally not a match winner

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On 26/11/2017 at 2:15 PM, Khota said:

Smith is great but currently he is feasting on sub par bowling.

And what about Root. Is He better than Smith? Bowlers are exploiting his susceptible lbw head position but I have a feeling that he is going to fix that by next couple of matches

Edited by mishra
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2 hours ago, New guy said:

Lara is hyped up because of one single Australia series. Sachin has things like an unbeaten 100 in the highest 4th innings chase in India and two brilliant innings in the only ODI series win we ever had in Australia and two back to back 100s in the first win against Australia outside India. But totally not a match winner

lara is hyped up because he's lara. only those who have seen lara know lara.

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7 hours ago, mishra said:

And what about Root. Is He better than Smith? Bowlers are exploiting his susceptible lbw head position but I have a feeling that he is going to fix that by next couple of matches

Let the series play out and then maybe we can tell.

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