beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Nice thread mulo... We Indians are far more accepting of the behavior of the cast of our mythologies too. Never heard a snigger about Kunti having five sons from five different fathers. Or even the birth of Dashrath's children . Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 5 hours ago, beetle said: Nice thread mulo... We Indians are far more accepting of the behavior of the cast of our mythologies too. Never heard a snigger about Kunti having five sons from five different fathers. Or even the birth of Dashrath's children . You are making the mistake of taking things too literally regarding those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 37 minutes ago, rkt.india said: You are making the mistake of taking things too literally regarding those. So you mean they used a fertility clinic ? Sperm donors? From what I heard, she made them appear and concieved. I may be wrong but that is what I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, rkt.india said: You are making the mistake of taking things too literally regarding those. so wait, we should take things that align with our morality, such as the bhagvat gita, which is also mahabharata, but not take Kunti or Draupadi's sex life seriously because its upsetting to our islamicized morals ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, beetle said: So you mean they used a fertility clinic ? Sperm donors? From what I heard, she made them appear and concieved. I may be wrong but that is what I heard. if your hubby was infertile and okay with it and you had special access to Gods to make demi-God children, i am sure you'd take the chance. Not only do you get a demi-God as a kid, you get to have sex with a God ! its a two-for-one bonus deal PS: On the downside, you are going to have to straighten out a demi-god rascal when they go through the 'rascal phase' of being kids...better have some energy drinks on hand ! Edited October 23, 2018 by Muloghonto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Muloghonto said: so wait, we should take things that align with our morality, such as the bhagvat gita, which is also mahabharata, but not take Kunti or Draupadi's sex life seriously because its upsetting to our islamicized morals ? Even ram Lakshman Bharat Shatrughan are not kids of Dashrath then because some Pandit gave mangoes which the ladies ate and got sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 14 hours ago, beetle said: So you mean they used a fertility clinic ? Sperm donors? From what I heard, she made them appear and concieved. I may be wrong but that is what I heard. They were/are called gods for some reason. They did not need to have sex to give anyone kids. They have had that much powers. Like Parvati created Ganesh without Shiva even knowing about him. Same way when Hanuman was coming out of Lanka after burning, a drop of his sweat fell into the mouth of a big fish and she gave birth to his son, Makardhwaja which he did not even know about. That does not mean he had sex with the fish? Hanuman was a Bal Brahmchari. If you believe in god and religion then you will have to believe in their supernatural powers and symbolism. They are not meant to be taken literally. Even if they are/were imaginations and just myths, still you will have to look at them with that context of being supernatural powers and not just ordinary human beings. I consider myself an atheist but I have a problem with half-backed beliefs like with Sabrimala. That if you are a devotee, you will have to adhere to his rules and if you are not then why bother about all this drama or pain of going to temple, etc. Number 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Even ram Lakshman Bharat Shatrughan are not kids of Dashrath then because some Pandit gave mangoes which the ladies ate and got sons. sorry but when you summon a God specifically to give you children while you have none from your husband, the implication is clear. Eating mangoes and crap like that is no different than ' here have this, its a fertility boost/aphrodisiac' - which is a common thing across cultures in the ancient world with many, many references in many, many cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, rkt.india said: They were/are called gods for some reason. They did not need to have sex to give anyone kids. They have had that much powers. Like Parvati created Ganesh without Shiva even knowing about him. flawed analogy. Parvati is a Goddess, Ganesh is a God. So is Shiva. Kunti was a human. The sexual relation required to birth children between Gods and humans, thus creating demi-Gods is a well & consistent topic across the old polytheistic world. This is why the Pandavas were demi-Gods and not human. 2 minutes ago, rkt.india said: If you believe in god and religion then you will have to believe in their supernatural powers and symbolism. They are not meant to be taken literally. Ok, so answer my question - what is supposed to be taken literally and what is not from these tales and how is the decision made on such matters then ? Seems very much like 'dont take it literally' if something is inconvinient and vice versa. 2 minutes ago, rkt.india said: That if you are a devotee, you will have to adhere to his rules and if you are not then why bother about all this drama or pain of going to temple, etc. but the rules are not 'his' rules - the rules are what a bunch of PEOPLE are telling, is the rules. The rules reflect & come from regular people, not divine revelations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Anyways, its deviating from the thread-topic, which is the Indian cultural/religious view on clothing historically and how our current hindu & cultural sensibilites of modesty in clothing is an islamic-christian moral concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 @Muloghonto good topic however it is unfair to blame our overall degradation as a society on Abrahamic faiths alone. We have lost our basic essence of what made us one of the greatest and progressive cultures that ever existed. Take example of the Middle East. This is the birth place of Islam. However the Arabs have retained their core essence which is that of being traders and business men. They have realized the value they have to offer in terms of Oil and they have traded that for technology and infrastructure with the western world with whom they have a conflict at a “spiritual” level. They have built beautiful cities and made progress regardless of the laws and customs that may appear outdated. By the same account look at the state of Pakistan and Bangladesh. They neither have retained their original essence(May be Bangladeshis have a little bit when it comes to langauage etc) but they are just confused for the most part , hung up on the whole religious thing gone no where and stuck in a rut. Same pattern as us. Same can be said for the jewdo-Christian countries. They have secular policies and have made a lot of progress where as the Christian preachers in India tell their followers things like not to eat Prasad or put a bindhi on the forehead even though the latter is more of a fashion statement in the subcontinent. No one even knows the religious reasons of a bindhi anymore. So we have more or less fked up our own essence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Not only has views on sexuality changed but what is considered to be an attractive person has changed too. Rama,Krishna are usually shown in blue color because they were apparently so dark skinned that their skin looked blue. They are hailed for their charisma and good looks. Same with Draupadi who was supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world and she was supposed to be very dark skinned. Also philosophy and intellectual debates on every topic coincide with prosperity. Kamasutra was written during the Gupta period when India was called “sone ki Chidiya” the most prosperous nation in the world. India has produced some of the greatest spiritual thinkers that ever lived. Buddha,Mahavira,Shankaracharya.All of them more or less belonged to the time frame when India as a nation was more or less prosperous. One might argue about Guru Nanak etc but their teachings along with excerpts from great philosophies of the previous era also included tenets about self defense etc coinciding with the need of that generation. Kalidasa’s works, Aryabhatta, Yoga,Ayurveda,Arthashastra all came during the golden age. Even today scientific breakthroughs or culture be it internet, social media, robotics or bio technology come out of mostly America. similarly Europe had come up with a lot of innovation during the industrial revolution. Sex and sexuality is definetely an important subject but obviously it has moved down the pecking order for a reason given the constant invasions and where we stand as a world economy today. Edited October 23, 2018 by Global.Baba beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Muloghonto said: flawed analogy. Parvati is a Goddess, Ganesh is a God. So is Shiva. Kunti was a human. The sexual relation required to birth children between Gods and humans, thus creating demi-Gods is a well & consistent topic across the old polytheistic world. This is why the Pandavas were demi-Gods and not human. So you want to say pandavs were not the kids of Pandu? They were for sure kids of Pandu but had blessings of different Gods. same way how the fish gave birth to son of Hanuman by drop of a sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Muloghonto said: if your hubby was infertile and okay with it and you had special access to Gods to make demi-God children, i am sure you'd take the chance. Not only do you get a demi-God as a kid, you get to have sex with a God ! its a two-for-one bonus deal PS: On the downside, you are going to have to straighten out a demi-god rascal when they go through the 'rascal phase' of being kids...better have some energy drinks on hand ! Eww chee ! I like my human hubby and human kid. Infertile hota to we would adopt a kitten. Demi god ke pehle pair choone padenge...haath jodne padenge.Too much effort. Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: So you want to say pandavs were not the kids of Pandu? They were for sure kids of Pandu but had blessings of different Gods. same way how the fish gave birth to son of Hanuman by drop of a sweat. Awww rkt ....you are so naive. Drop of sweat, prasaad, kheer,phal....aasheervaad ....they all mean the same thing. Babaji ke paas ja ke unke prasad kha ke jo bachche hote hain unka chehra babaji se milta hai. Edited October 23, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 @rkt.india.....have you heard about the mor and morni? The peacock dances when it rains and then sheds a few tears. The peahen drinks his tears and then they have babies. Do you believe that too? tears ,fruit ,prasad ,etc are all used to avoid having the uncomfortable explanation with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The issue here is ppl are judging Gods as if they are human .... Lord Vishu is said to have turned into a female, Mohani, iirc Let these idiots debate how can a man turn into a female Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, zen said: The issue here is ppl are judging Gods as if they are human .... Lord Vishu is said to have turned into a female, Mohani, iirc Let these idiots debate how can a man turn into a female No, we are judging the tales of God written by semi-literate men who knew less about reality than kids today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Some sorry responses in this thread. Justice Indu Malhotra when she dissented against Sabarimala verdict clearly said there is no logic or rationale in religion. It's a belief system that the atheists don't understand. Some are selective devotees claiming to be believers, but question others' beliefs. Ithihasa and Puranas were verbal and narrated through generations to keep the dharma alive. They are not recorded history, but were narrations to let generations know about the geography of India. Ramayana traverses from North to south. Mahabharata does it from west to east. These were constructs of our civilizations education system, the gurukuls which were destroyed by McCaulay's colonial brainwash. As with modern rationale we can question them, but at some point some of us believe in various degrees of divinity. Ultimately, this Dharma lets you pick and choose. Global.Baba 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: No, we are judging the tales of God written by semi-literate men who knew less about reality than kids today. So the sages who came up with Yoga and Ayurveda are dumber than kids on their insta/Facebook/Twitter? Guys like sage Panini( not the sandwich but the muni) and Patanjali and the guys who wrote Ramayana,Mahabharata all are regarded as sages and obviously there is a benchmark, not every Tom dick and Harry is treated as a Rishi in our culture? Atleast you might be impressed with Yoga as it has the white mans approval. Ramayana,Mahabharata and their offshoot stories are treated as Itihaas(history). How difficult is it to understand that maybe not every culture has the same way of recording historical events. Our knowledge has been passed down orally be it rituals or history, so maybe stories might have been exaggerated to make them easy to remember. Why this total disdain and lack of respect? Maybe giving it a flavor of mysticism and magic was the norm of retelling history is putting you off but hey it is that culture and it is what it is. Today plastic surgery is a big deal and probably pretty much every Hollywood/Bollywood actor/actress has had rhinoplasty. Rhinoplasty was first performed in india and this is not bs to make ancient India exotic. There is a recorded event where a Indian surgeon performing this on a Maratha general was documented by a couple of British doctors . This was a time when British were just about making inroads into India as a ruler.Now the source material this surgeon followed might be totally opposite of what a med student prefers . Just because we can’t intetpret it doesn’t mean it is bs and doesn’t make sense case in point your dig at the epics coffee_rules and Adi BB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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