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What would India have been like today if all Muslims had left for Pakistan in 1947


SecondSlip

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Population would have been lesser by 15-20% and per capita slightly better.

 

I'm curious on the economic composition of those that migrated vs those that continued in India. The middle/upper class could afford the journey but they would have had a business/job to leave while the poor would have lesser means to migrate but a ray of hope to start afresh. I have read here & there that most well off migrated to Pakistan as a reason for Indian Muslims being poorer than Pakistanis.

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If all the Muslims had left India, mind you, the achievements by Indian Muslims in various fields so far, would not have happened. There were some Indian Muslims who had achievements  at the world level. We would have far less to boast about. Some Eg. Ar Rahman, Abdul Kalam, various Indian actors such as Nawazuddin siddiqui, naseerudin shah, irrfan Khan, dilip Kumar, etc just to name a few.

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1 hour ago, I6MTW said:

If all the Muslims had left India, mind you, the achievements by Indian Muslims in various fields so far, would not have happened. There were some Indian Muslims who had achievements  at the world level. We would have far less to boast about. Some Eg. Ar Rahman, Abdul Kalam, various Indian actors such as Nawazuddin siddiqui, naseerudin shah, irrfan Khan, dilip Kumar, etc just to name a few.

Ah, the classic bullshit excuse. The Mughals brought us tandoor, and delicious food. The British brought us cricket, English. 

 

Reality, is in India, we are taught wrong history in order not to offend them. And so a civilization which treats invaders as heros is doomed to fail.  We are the only country where they are a given as being liberals, and thus that where the problem starts.

 

 

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It would have been much better. At the end of the day muslims are a headache in India.

 

Yes there are other conflicts amongst different ethnicities, castes and religions but they have no allegiances outside of India like Muslims do, apart from some Christians.

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19 minutes ago, someone said:

Ah, the classic bullshit excuse. The Mughals brought us tandoor, and delicious food. The British brought us cricket, English. 

 

Reality, is in India, we are taught wrong history in order not to offend them. And so a civilization which treats invaders as heros is doomed to fail.  We are the only country where they are a given as being liberals, and thus that where the problem starts.

 

 

I am fully aware of what the actual history is! I don't believe British and Mughals gave us this/that etc. India would've still developed without them. A classic example is most of the scientific discoveries by Europeans(Newton,einstein,galileo) had already been discovered 1000s of years before by the Indians. 

 

So, no I'm not using that excuse. What I meant was, after independence, had all the Muslims gone to Pakistan or elsewhere, the achievements in various fields all around the world credited to India would be different, because there was a share of it contributed by Muslims and I already pointed it out. Some of them are extraordinary and without them the respective field would've been ordinary. Eg. Ar Rahman and his contribution to music(winning an Oscar for India), Dr. Abdul Kalam(I needn't say more), then in the field of Indian cinema(Dilip Kumar one of India's greatest actors, father of method acting, there's a saying before Brando there was Dilip Kumar. Then there's Nawazuddin Siddiqui, one of the best actors currently, Irrfan Khan, nawazuddin siddiqui, then some directors and poets who are famous for their work, I don't want to go on about that. In fact one of India's greatest singers(Rafi) was a Muslim. So you would lose all of these if Muslims had left India. 

 

Now I'm in no way arguing that India was great under mughals or british, there are various accounts that state otherwise. But they did bring diversity in all aspects. So that is a case to be noted. Only thing is that the diversity is what's causing problems with unity and political parties playing the minority card etc

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1 hour ago, I6MTW said:

I am fully aware of what the actual history is! I don't believe British and Mughals gave us this/that etc. India would've still developed without them. A classic example is most of the scientific discoveries by Europeans(Newton,einstein,galileo) had already been discovered 1000s of years before by the Indians. 

 

So, no I'm not using that excuse. What I meant was, after independence, had all the Muslims gone to Pakistan or elsewhere, the achievements in various fields all around the world credited to India would be different, because there was a share of it contributed by Muslims and I already pointed it out. Some of them are extraordinary and without them the respective field would've been ordinary. Eg. Ar Rahman and his contribution to music(winning an Oscar for India), Dr. Abdul Kalam(I needn't say more), then in the field of Indian cinema(Dilip Kumar one of India's greatest actors, father of method acting, there's a saying before Brando there was Dilip Kumar. Then there's Nawazuddin Siddiqui, one of the best actors currently, Irrfan Khan, nawazuddin siddiqui, then some directors and poets who are famous for their work, I don't want to go on about that. In fact one of India's greatest singers(Rafi) was a Muslim. So you would lose all of these if Muslims had left India. 

 

Now I'm in no way arguing that India was great under mughals or british, there are various accounts that state otherwise. But they did bring diversity in all aspects. So that is a case to be noted. Only thing is that the diversity is what's causing problems with unity and political parties playing the minority card etc

Silly rebuttal. So can one also say that all those crimes by Muslims in modern India have not have happened? It's not about individual cases. Today, we live in a false narrative just because we are fearful of them. We cannot talk about many things including the genocides due to this fear.

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14 minutes ago, someone said:

Silly rebuttal. So can one also say that all those crimes by Muslims in modern India have not have happened? It's not about individual cases. Today, we live in a false narrative just because we are fearful of them. We cannot talk about many things including the genocides due to this fear.

I agree this conflict between Muslims and Hindus would not have been there, and favouritism towards minorities might have decreased. But We'd still be facing wars across the border because of terrorism and kashmir(remains a question mark) and  cases like cow lynching, communalism vs secularism arguments because of minorities of other religions(christianity) and dalit and  other castes. Eg. Sikh riots.

 

BUT 2002, 1993, and Kashmiri pandit genocide would not have happened if there were no Muslims.

 

Since this is a speculative debate, there are various situations which can be considered especially the one which I pointed out earlier(individual achievements by Muslims, diversity, origin of Sufism in India etc).

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36 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Not very different, never underestimate the ability of Hindus to fight amongst themselves and invent enemies/bogeymen from within the community. Besides this question is in poor taste, many Indian Muslims laid down their lives in our freedom struggle and definitely their contribution was more than that of Hindutva buffoons. Name one living Hindu who is more patriotic than Abdul Kalam, just one. Like him there were/are many Muslims who have brought glory to the motherland.

Outside Kashmir, 90% of Muslims are ideal Indian citizens (just like other communities), it is only the fringe and the puppet masters who are creating nuisance. How many Indian Muslims from elsewhere have joined the Kashmir jihad factory, forget overseas based ISIS/AQ/LeT? Did Muslims start civil wars during our wars with Pakistan? How many Indian Muslims have left the country to settle abroad, compare that to Hindus. Look at remittance from Gulf (diaspora Muslim majority) and compare it with other countries. Muslims have as much right as each of us, they have contributed to this rich culture over many centuries. The bad part went away with Pakistan, look at those Muslims compared to ours, the best version of Islam is practiced in India. We have the better collection of Islamic art and architecture, we have the authentic versions of Mughal/Hyderabadi/Awadh.... cuisine, even Urdu is an Indian language no matter how much Bakis bark. Funny to think they got wrecked so bad and lost half their country fighting over 2 Indian languages :hysterical:.

Problem is excessive token minority appeasement by Congress ecosystem without doing much to uplift the Muslim community, divide and rule policy eg Hindu baiting, high fertility rates, illegal immigration, support for braindead mullahs/extremist elements/criminals within Muslim society for political purposes etc, all of which is a Congress legacy. Blame those assholes, not an average Salim selling snacks on the road stall. 

Exactly! There were so many patriotic Muslims for the country, It's how we progressed after independence, the lack if upliftment, growth, mindset of the people, appeasement of minorities while frowning upon our own Hindus etc. There will always be one problem or the other by another race. This is just one of them.

Edited by I6MTW
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14 minutes ago, sergio04 said:

India will be Islamic country in 2050 hopefully.

No, by current population projections Muslims will be 18-19% of India's population by the end of the 21st century. However Assam (illegal immigration, TFR), Bengal (illegal immigration, TFR) and Kerala (3 way split, TFR, conversions) may see Muslim majority in the 2050/60s. Total Muslim population will equal Hindu population after 200-250 years and that time India's total population will be unimaginably high (multiple times today's world population on 2% of world's landmass), unsustainable in every sense. Don't worry, growth rates in all communities will only come down and stabilize at some time, in our lifetimes in India Hindus will outnumber Muslims by at least 5:1. Just need to send those Bangladeshis back home and sterilize low income groups Sanjay Gandhi style, also ban forced conversions everywhere, sab theek ho jayega.  

Edited by Gollum
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With all due respect ... If Muslims stayed back and we were akhand Bharath - India, Pak, Bangladesh. Then, Muslim prime ministers would have formed governments atleast 6/10 times in lok Sabha elections since they would be a good 40 percent and since Hindus are never United.

 

If RSS really needs to thank someone it is Jinnah. This man made sure RSS and their lot can taste power once in a while in 80 percent Hindu India.

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