SecondSlip Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Would it be better or worse than it is currently? Why? UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, SecondSlip said: Would it be better or worse than it is currently? Why? Next in target would have been Dalits blamed for pulling whole society down. UrmiSinhaRay, sensible-indian, Stan AF and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R!TTER Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Partition was the bigger disaster, a united India would've been the envy of this world. Too bad cucks like Nehru, or Jinnah, couldn't see the bigger picture or what could happen after the partition of what was once a dream/nation they fought for together. Ridgepi and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasgulla Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Not much difference. Could that eliminate all caste feeling and vote bank politics ? NOP Stan AF, Switchblade, Ridgepi and 4 others 1 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Population would have been lesser by 15-20% and per capita slightly better. I'm curious on the economic composition of those that migrated vs those that continued in India. The middle/upper class could afford the journey but they would have had a business/job to leave while the poor would have lesser means to migrate but a ray of hope to start afresh. I have read here & there that most well off migrated to Pakistan as a reason for Indian Muslims being poorer than Pakistanis. UrmiSinhaRay and cricketrulez 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Ayodhya wouldn't have been an issue but something else would have emerged, probably on caste lines as tricho suggested. beetle and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourneyMan Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 The Indian muslim population would have been limited to converts. As a result there would have to be a campaign to ship off any converts to Pakistan to ensure a zero muslim population in the Saffron Reich. Stan AF, UrmiSinhaRay and sensible-indian 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rageaddict Posted December 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2018 Less or no Muslims could never be worse for India or any Non-Muslim country for that matter. In case of India, There would be no Secular v/s Hindutva debates across all platforms . No appeasement. No guilt-ridden self-loathing Hindus bending over backwards to accomodate Muslims when it's their own backwardness and jahil Islamic beliefs holding them back. No Islamic terrorism , which constitutes about 95% of the Worldwide Terrorism today. Muslims being Muslims would be killing each other with more impunity in Pakistan over length of their beard and Shalwaar. We could have just watched the Tamasha from the sidelines without being directly involved in the conflict . Parties like BJP would never come to power or have any relevance in India, because in absence of an extremist poisonous ideology like Islam there would have been no need for any Hindutva wave to counter it. Ab toh Jab tak Musalmaan hai, tab tak na chahte hue bhi BJP, RSS ko support Karna padega ( Apna vote toh BJP ko hi hai aur rahega chahe kitna bhi Mob Lynching ho ya Godhra ho jae) No Jihad against infidels/Idol Worshippers like Godhra and the riots that followed. No Mosques, No Azaan and no millions of Madrassas aka terrorist producing factories in the country. No ghettozied Muslim Mohallas aka Mini Pakistan in every nook and corner of the country which are the breeding grounds for Anti-National activities, Mafia Gangs, Terrorism and extremism. No momins occupying the streets and blocking traffic during Friday's to offer allegiance to their religion of murderous desert bandits. There would be no National debates over whether construction of Ram Mandir would antagonize the Muslims. Ram Mandir mat banao, Musalmaan naraz ho jaega. Modi ko vote mat do, Musalmaan naraz ho jaega. Police Stations main pooja mat Karo, Musalmaan naraz Ho jaega. ( BC Sharia law lagwa do Musalmaan ko khush karne ke liye) LordPrabhzy, Jimmy Cliff, Sgattick10 and 7 others 2 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I6MTW Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 If all the Muslims had left India, mind you, the achievements by Indian Muslims in various fields so far, would not have happened. There were some Indian Muslims who had achievements at the world level. We would have far less to boast about. Some Eg. Ar Rahman, Abdul Kalam, various Indian actors such as Nawazuddin siddiqui, naseerudin shah, irrfan Khan, dilip Kumar, etc just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, I6MTW said: If all the Muslims had left India, mind you, the achievements by Indian Muslims in various fields so far, would not have happened. There were some Indian Muslims who had achievements at the world level. We would have far less to boast about. Some Eg. Ar Rahman, Abdul Kalam, various Indian actors such as Nawazuddin siddiqui, naseerudin shah, irrfan Khan, dilip Kumar, etc just to name a few. Ah, the classic bullshit excuse. The Mughals brought us tandoor, and delicious food. The British brought us cricket, English. Reality, is in India, we are taught wrong history in order not to offend them. And so a civilization which treats invaders as heros is doomed to fail. We are the only country where they are a given as being liberals, and thus that where the problem starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 It would have been much better. At the end of the day muslims are a headache in India. Yes there are other conflicts amongst different ethnicities, castes and religions but they have no allegiances outside of India like Muslims do, apart from some Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I6MTW Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, someone said: Ah, the classic bullshit excuse. The Mughals brought us tandoor, and delicious food. The British brought us cricket, English. Reality, is in India, we are taught wrong history in order not to offend them. And so a civilization which treats invaders as heros is doomed to fail. We are the only country where they are a given as being liberals, and thus that where the problem starts. I am fully aware of what the actual history is! I don't believe British and Mughals gave us this/that etc. India would've still developed without them. A classic example is most of the scientific discoveries by Europeans(Newton,einstein,galileo) had already been discovered 1000s of years before by the Indians. So, no I'm not using that excuse. What I meant was, after independence, had all the Muslims gone to Pakistan or elsewhere, the achievements in various fields all around the world credited to India would be different, because there was a share of it contributed by Muslims and I already pointed it out. Some of them are extraordinary and without them the respective field would've been ordinary. Eg. Ar Rahman and his contribution to music(winning an Oscar for India), Dr. Abdul Kalam(I needn't say more), then in the field of Indian cinema(Dilip Kumar one of India's greatest actors, father of method acting, there's a saying before Brando there was Dilip Kumar. Then there's Nawazuddin Siddiqui, one of the best actors currently, Irrfan Khan, nawazuddin siddiqui, then some directors and poets who are famous for their work, I don't want to go on about that. In fact one of India's greatest singers(Rafi) was a Muslim. So you would lose all of these if Muslims had left India. Now I'm in no way arguing that India was great under mughals or british, there are various accounts that state otherwise. But they did bring diversity in all aspects. So that is a case to be noted. Only thing is that the diversity is what's causing problems with unity and political parties playing the minority card etc BrantFUGH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gollum Posted December 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2018 (edited) Not very different, never underestimate the ability of Hindus to fight amongst themselves and invent enemies/bogeymen from within the community. Besides this question is in poor taste, many Indian Muslims laid down their lives in our freedom struggle and definitely their contribution was more than that of Hindutva buffoons. Name one living Hindu who is more patriotic than Abdul Kalam, just one. Like him there were/are many Muslims who have brought glory to the motherland. Outside Kashmir, 90% of Muslims are ideal Indian citizens (just like other communities), it is only the fringe and the puppet masters who are creating nuisance. How many Indian Muslims from elsewhere have joined the Kashmir jihad factory, forget overseas based ISIS/AQ/LeT? Did Muslims start civil wars during our wars with Pakistan? How many Indian Muslims have left the country to settle abroad, compare that to Hindus. Look at remittance from Gulf (diaspora Muslim majority) and compare it with other countries. Muslims have as much right as each of us, they have contributed to this rich culture over many centuries. The bad part went away with Pakistan, look at those Muslims compared to ours, the best version of Islam is practiced in India. We have the better collection of Islamic art and architecture, we have the authentic versions of Mughal/Hyderabadi/Awadh.... cuisine, even Urdu is an Indian language no matter how much Bakis bark. Funny to think they got wrecked so bad and lost half their country fighting over 2 Indian languages . Problem is excessive token minority appeasement by Congress ecosystem without doing much to uplift the Muslim community, divide and rule policy eg Hindu baiting, high fertility rates, illegal immigration, support for braindead mullahs/extremist elements/criminals within Muslim society for political purposes etc, all of which is a Congress legacy. Blame those assholes, not an average Salim selling snacks on the road stall. Edited December 25, 2018 by Gollum riya, sensible-indian, Stan AF and 7 others 1 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, I6MTW said: I am fully aware of what the actual history is! I don't believe British and Mughals gave us this/that etc. India would've still developed without them. A classic example is most of the scientific discoveries by Europeans(Newton,einstein,galileo) had already been discovered 1000s of years before by the Indians. So, no I'm not using that excuse. What I meant was, after independence, had all the Muslims gone to Pakistan or elsewhere, the achievements in various fields all around the world credited to India would be different, because there was a share of it contributed by Muslims and I already pointed it out. Some of them are extraordinary and without them the respective field would've been ordinary. Eg. Ar Rahman and his contribution to music(winning an Oscar for India), Dr. Abdul Kalam(I needn't say more), then in the field of Indian cinema(Dilip Kumar one of India's greatest actors, father of method acting, there's a saying before Brando there was Dilip Kumar. Then there's Nawazuddin Siddiqui, one of the best actors currently, Irrfan Khan, nawazuddin siddiqui, then some directors and poets who are famous for their work, I don't want to go on about that. In fact one of India's greatest singers(Rafi) was a Muslim. So you would lose all of these if Muslims had left India. Now I'm in no way arguing that India was great under mughals or british, there are various accounts that state otherwise. But they did bring diversity in all aspects. So that is a case to be noted. Only thing is that the diversity is what's causing problems with unity and political parties playing the minority card etc Silly rebuttal. So can one also say that all those crimes by Muslims in modern India have not have happened? It's not about individual cases. Today, we live in a false narrative just because we are fearful of them. We cannot talk about many things including the genocides due to this fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I6MTW Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, someone said: Silly rebuttal. So can one also say that all those crimes by Muslims in modern India have not have happened? It's not about individual cases. Today, we live in a false narrative just because we are fearful of them. We cannot talk about many things including the genocides due to this fear. I agree this conflict between Muslims and Hindus would not have been there, and favouritism towards minorities might have decreased. But We'd still be facing wars across the border because of terrorism and kashmir(remains a question mark) and cases like cow lynching, communalism vs secularism arguments because of minorities of other religions(christianity) and dalit and other castes. Eg. Sikh riots. BUT 2002, 1993, and Kashmiri pandit genocide would not have happened if there were no Muslims. Since this is a speculative debate, there are various situations which can be considered especially the one which I pointed out earlier(individual achievements by Muslims, diversity, origin of Sufism in India etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I6MTW Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Gollum said: Not very different, never underestimate the ability of Hindus to fight amongst themselves and invent enemies/bogeymen from within the community. Besides this question is in poor taste, many Indian Muslims laid down their lives in our freedom struggle and definitely their contribution was more than that of Hindutva buffoons. Name one living Hindu who is more patriotic than Abdul Kalam, just one. Like him there were/are many Muslims who have brought glory to the motherland. Outside Kashmir, 90% of Muslims are ideal Indian citizens (just like other communities), it is only the fringe and the puppet masters who are creating nuisance. How many Indian Muslims from elsewhere have joined the Kashmir jihad factory, forget overseas based ISIS/AQ/LeT? Did Muslims start civil wars during our wars with Pakistan? How many Indian Muslims have left the country to settle abroad, compare that to Hindus. Look at remittance from Gulf (diaspora Muslim majority) and compare it with other countries. Muslims have as much right as each of us, they have contributed to this rich culture over many centuries. The bad part went away with Pakistan, look at those Muslims compared to ours, the best version of Islam is practiced in India. We have the better collection of Islamic art and architecture, we have the authentic versions of Mughal/Hyderabadi/Awadh.... cuisine, even Urdu is an Indian language no matter how much Bakis bark. Funny to think they got wrecked so bad and lost half their country fighting over 2 Indian languages . Problem is excessive token minority appeasement by Congress ecosystem without doing much to uplift the Muslim community, divide and rule policy eg Hindu baiting, high fertility rates, illegal immigration, support for braindead mullahs/extremist elements/criminals within Muslim society for political purposes etc, all of which is a Congress legacy. Blame those assholes, not an average Salim selling snacks on the road stall. Exactly! There were so many patriotic Muslims for the country, It's how we progressed after independence, the lack if upliftment, growth, mindset of the people, appeasement of minorities while frowning upon our own Hindus etc. There will always be one problem or the other by another race. This is just one of them. Edited December 25, 2018 by I6MTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, sergio04 said: India will be Islamic country in 2050 hopefully. No, by current population projections Muslims will be 18-19% of India's population by the end of the 21st century. However Assam (illegal immigration, TFR), Bengal (illegal immigration, TFR) and Kerala (3 way split, TFR, conversions) may see Muslim majority in the 2050/60s. Total Muslim population will equal Hindu population after 200-250 years and that time India's total population will be unimaginably high (multiple times today's world population on 2% of world's landmass), unsustainable in every sense. Don't worry, growth rates in all communities will only come down and stabilize at some time, in our lifetimes in India Hindus will outnumber Muslims by at least 5:1. Just need to send those Bangladeshis back home and sterilize low income groups Sanjay Gandhi style, also ban forced conversions everywhere, sab theek ho jayega. Edited December 25, 2018 by Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 shaivist vs vaishnavist sensible-indian, diehardpacer, Vk1 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temujin Khaghan Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 With all due respect ... If Muslims stayed back and we were akhand Bharath - India, Pak, Bangladesh. Then, Muslim prime ministers would have formed governments atleast 6/10 times in lok Sabha elections since they would be a good 40 percent and since Hindus are never United. If RSS really needs to thank someone it is Jinnah. This man made sure RSS and their lot can taste power once in a while in 80 percent Hindu India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laaloo Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Then Salman Ali would not have won the Indian Idol this year.... ExtremeBrainfade, Texy and velu 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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