Psyche of a Muslim kid

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

people can be evaluated based on their actions only. As far as I know ,ever since India got independence muslims have never been ill treated in India, if any they have been given  more benefits and privileges  in the form of minority rights when compared to majority Hindus in general.Despite all these, at least in my state ,I have seen  extreme  islamist communal thought among the ordinary muslims   whom you quoted as 'They are simple human beings just like simple Hindus. '  For instance, never have in my state  a  non muslim got elected  from any muslim majority constituency in any level  election. Is this the sign of what you told???? I have witnessed  lots of muslims getting elected from non muslim majority constituencies  , but never witnessed vice versa. Similarly Kashmiri muslims too consists of  several ordinary people.Isn't it??? Ever since India got independence, Kashmir had been given special privileges and status that no other state in India enjoys.Yet we all can observe and   analyse as to what is the mentality of ordinary Kashmiri muslims towards India. That mentality has reached even to this state of 'Pulwama affair' . And not to forget the tragic plight of Kashmiri pundits..... And even more sad and pathetic has been the case of Pakistani Hindus  in a country where you claim to have crores  and crores  of ordinary simple  moderate  muslims .

 

So the core of the matter is this : a muslim family can live peacefully  in the midst of 10 Hindu families, but a Hindu family can never ever  live peacefully   among a group of 10 muslim families. That is the plain truth.     

I totally agree with you on this 

 

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

And despite all the above said, if you are thinking that 'i am closing a door for these normal Muslims to escape from Islam, but i am PUSHING them all towards the extremist Mullahs.', then so be it . I am only happy to do it because the more muslims  turns to mullahs, the    more Hindus begin to unite for their own  peaceful existance. Otherwise,  from what all I could gather from the general muslim mentality,   the peaceful existance of Hindus in this country in going to be in grave danger.

I still beg to differ. 

 

The answer is absolutely not extremist Hindutva, but answer is more extreme measures against extremist Muslim tendencies from the WHOLE INDIAN SOCIETY. 

 

Hindutva is not a uniting force, but it is isolation of religious Hindus. 

 

Hindutva is not only a reactionary force against Muslims, but it has also shown extreme hatred against the Christianity and thus pushed them too towards the Muslims. Actually all minorities are fearing the Hindutva forces. 

It would be best in interest of India if BJP becomes a true national party and becomes free of communal hatred. BJP should win on only the agenda of progress and anti-corruption policies (and it has the capability to achieve this task, but the right wing within BJP corrupted it and want BJP to contest elections on bases of Hindutva and Beef ban). 

 

 

[maniac]

^Just to add don't bring up cow lynchings etc. Those kind of mob problems have always existed in India. It is a law and order problem not a government policy. Throwing stones during Ganesh Visarjan,Serving beef in communally sensitive area to rile Hindus, Putting garland of chappals on Ambedkar to instigate dalits or saying something offensive to each other's religious figures, these kind of trouble makers have existed since time immemorial. It is not a new problem for BJP India

[rtmohanlal]

7 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

I totally agree with you on this 

 

I still beg to differ. 

 

The answer is absolutely not extremist Hindutva, but answer is more extreme measures against extremist Muslim tendencies from the WHOLE INDIAN SOCIETY. 

 

Hindutva is not a uniting force, but it is isolation of religious Hindus. 

 

Hindutva is not only a reactionary force against Muslims, but it has also shown extreme hatred against the Christianity and thus pushed them too towards the Muslims. Actually all minorities are fearing the Hindutva forces. 

It would be best in interest of India if BJP becomes a true national party and becomes free of communal hatred. BJP should win on only the agenda of progress and anti-corruption policies (and it has the capability to achieve this task, but the right wing within BJP corrupted it and want BJP to contest elections on bases of Hindutva and Beef ban). 

 

 

ohh... yes .... these muslims can have all the benefits in the form of hajj allowences, scholarships for their children, mosques getting exempt from government control but only temples getting controlled by government and money from temples  utilized by governments in their own ways, christian  missionaries can keep on converting  Hindus enmass  thru every dirty trick  etc etc but if Hindus  utter a word against  such double standard offenses then they become communal in the eyes of these christians and muslims.   Then the situation becomes 'Christianity too pushed  towards the Muslims. Actually all minorities are fearing the Hindutva forces. ' etc etc .

 

I don't care a bit about this . If the religious minorities  take the 'claims of Hindus against such atrocities' as some threat so be it .

[Alam_dar]

40 minutes ago, maniac said:

Yeah quaking in their boots by making movies ridiculing Hindu religion, showing a movie where a super hot ISI agent  works with RAW agent to bring down some other bad guy etc etc. How has it affected their lifestyle?

 

SRK and Salman Khan are still one of the richest actors in the world, Naseeruddin Shah gets away with selective hypocrisy. They all are living happy lives. It is suckers like you who got caught up in this propaganda.

 

Tell me one Muslim who has had problems leading a normal life in India in terms of practicing his religion or living hsi normal life?

 

I am afraid it is not enough to be rich in India as a Muslim and is not enough to be able to perform prayers, when you have been constantly told that only real bhagat of Hindu religion could be considered as a Patriotic Indian, and son of the soil, while you are doubted due to your religion, and you have been constantly told to go to Pakistan, and you have been constantly blamed for being traitor to India. 

 

Hindu religious masses have been brainwashed to see these moderate Muslims like Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan as Jews were seen in the Hitler times ...... the traitors in one way or another. 

 

People are uncomfortable with this extreme RW policies. 

[Alam_dar]

45 minutes ago, maniac said:

^Just to add don't bring up cow lynchings etc. Those kind of mob problems have always existed in India. It is a law and order problem not a government policy. Throwing stones during Ganesh Visarjan,Serving beef in communally sensitive area to rile Hindus, Putting garland of chappals on Ambedkar to instigate dalits or saying something offensive to each other's religious figures, these kind of trouble makers have existed since time immemorial. It is not a new problem for BJP India

Not really. 

Ideally BJP should have been staying somewhere in the CENTER. 

But I believe that BJP has tilted to much towards the RW, and people see no difference between BJP and Saffron brigades and Bajran Dal. 
BJP should not become a spokes person of RSS. 
 

If BJP is not personally involved in cow lynching, still it is involved while it gives free hands to these lynchers. All the RW Hindutva goons are supported in one way or another. This is the real image of BJP for all the minorities and secularists. 

Vajpaye and Sushma Swaraj type BJP leaders are well respected from all. But Modi and Amit Shah brought BJP towards very RW and it was not required. 

[Alam_dar]

38 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

ohh... yes .... these muslims can have all the benefits in the form of hajj allowences, scholarships for their children, mosques getting exempt from government control but only temples getting controlled by government and money from temples  utilized by governments in their own ways, christian  missionaries can keep on converting  Hindus enmass  thru every dirty trick  etc etc but if Hindus  utter a word against  such double standard offenses then they become communal in the eyes of these christians and muslims.   Then the situation becomes 'Christianity too pushed  towards the Muslims. Actually all minorities are fearing the Hindutva forces. ' etc etc .

 

I don't care a bit about this . If the religious minorities  take the 'claims of Hindus against such atrocities' as some threat so be it .

I am all for ending Hajj benefits (like Imran Khan did in Pakistan). 
I am all for control over the mosques, as Saudi Arabia and Iran and Turkey etc. have. 

 

Please answer me, if the Christian missionaries are using FORCE to convert the Hindus? 

 

If not, why then Hindus are converting towards Christianity? 

 

And why cannot BJP and RSS stop this conversion through their own PREACHINGS, instead of using the FORCE against the Christian missionaries? 

 

Problem is Hinduism got the disease of Caste system, and Christian missionaries are getting advantage of this. The solution is not to stop the Christian missionaries by force, but solution is to make Dalits understand that new Hinduism in India does not discriminate them. 

 

But the present form of Hindutva is actually frightening the Dalits too, along with all others.  This use of force against all will finally make BJP isolated. 

[The Realist]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I am afraid it is not enough to be rich in India as a Muslim and is not enough to be able to perform prayers, when you have been constantly told that only real bhagat of Hindu religion could be considered as a Patriotic Indian, and son of the soil, while you are doubted due to your religion, and you have been constantly told to go to Pakistan, and you have been constantly blamed for being traitor to India. 

 

Hindu religious masses have been brainwashed to see these moderate Muslims like Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan as Jews were seen in the Hitler times ...... the traitors in one way or another. 

 

People are uncomfortable with this extreme RW policies. 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by The Realist

[Laaloo]

3 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I am all for ending Hajj benefits (like Imran Khan did in Pakistan). 
I am all for control over the mosques, as Saudi Arabia and Iran and Turkey etc. have. 

 

Please answer me, if the Christian missionaries are using FORCE to convert the Hindus? 

 

If not, why then Hindus are converting towards Christianity? 

 

And why cannot BJP and RSS stop this conversion through their own PREACHINGS, instead of using the FORCE against the Christian missionaries? 

 

Problem is Hinduism got the disease of Caste system, and Christian missionaries are getting advantage of this. The solution is not to stop the Christian missionaries by force, but solution is to make Dalits understand that new Hinduism in India does not discriminate them. 

 

But the present form of Hindutva is actually frightening the Dalits too, along with all others.  This use of force against all will finally make BJP isolated. 

YOU ARE A  F.U.C.KING retard

Edited March 5, 2019 by Laaloo

[MechEng]

11 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

YOU ARE A  F.U.C.KING retard

We can conclude here that nobody will understand Indian religions unless they have lived for at least 5 years in India. Alam Dar is seeing everything from the rigid Abrahamic point of view which is why he has formed so many false assumptions.

 

P.S.: Reading about Istanbul and traveling to Istanbul and experiencing it are two very different things.

Edited March 5, 2019 by MechEng

[MechEng]

5 hours ago, maniac said:

One of my close friends is a Muslim. He had no issues coming to the temple. Couple of times when we were partying, we had to remind him it was ramadan time. He used to joke about people with beards and topis and was a hardcore Yuvraj Singh fanboy and back then hated Md.Kaif.

 

Saala abhi shaadi ke baad, daaru vaaru bandh, grew a slight beard and facebook timeline pe poora crimes in Iraq etc ke memes aur anti-Modi posts.Worst crime, he likes MSD fanpage on his FB.

 

Another Innocent guy ruined by marriage @beetle @Mariyam 

Like Anjem Choudhary?

 

 

[nikred]

I am all for ending Hajj benefits (like Imran Khan did in Pakistan). 
I am all for control over the mosques, as Saudi Arabia and Iran and Turkey etc. have. 
 
Please answer me, if the Christian missionaries are using FORCE to convert the Hindus? 
 
If not, why then Hindus are converting towards Christianity? 
 
And why cannot BJP and RSS stop this conversion through their own PREACHINGS, instead of using the FORCE against the Christian missionaries? 
 
Problem is Hinduism got the disease of Caste system, and Christian missionaries are getting advantage of this. The solution is not to stop the Christian missionaries by force, but solution is to make Dalits understand that new Hinduism in India does not discriminate them. 
 
But the present form of Hindutva is actually frightening the Dalits too, along with all others.  This use of force against all will finally make BJP isolated. 

Hindus get converted by taking money and other benefits. That is true atleast in states of AP and Telangana. There are many of these converts who belong to Reddy caste. Before you go on another rant, I belong to that caste but have no freakin reason to convert.

Reddys are politically highly influencial and most of them are financially well to do as well, especially those from AP where you see more of these converts.
It's all about the money and lucrative jobs in teaching institutions, there is no belief angle there.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[Mariyam]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

Another Innocent guy ruined by marriage @beetle @Mariyam 

Why is it that it is always the guy who is 'ruined'?

For all practical purposes its the girl who has to adjust/compromise to a larger extent.

 

I can only cite my example. I was a prude before my marriage. 

 

@Alam_dar

Bollywood superstars are not a good metric to gauge the mindset of any community. In India they are given undue attention and love. It is in an overwhelmingly Hindu India where, for instance SRK, has achieved such success. That is because he is accepted by the masses. Hence Bollywood stars become easy targets for people from the fringe (of either religion).

 

Case in point: Javed Akhtar, who the fundamentalist Muslims accuse of being a heretic or a nay sayer. And the Hindu right accuses him of being a crypto Islamist. He obviously can't be both!

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Mariyam

[Mariyam]

11 hours ago, Clarke said:

@ topic, any such idea that discriminates against any caste/Creed/sex/religion/community etc being practiced or implanted in young minds would surely be a punishable offense by law. I think promoting enmity can be applicable in police report. Not that I recommend going in those police/judiciary chakkar, maybe NGOs can handle that.

 

This is an idea that was discussed in the 50s. The problem is that there is a thin line between promoting enmity and practicing segregation/ pursuing your own identity. Convictions are difficult from a purely legal PoV.

 

The more intertwined our economy gets, ie a certain community who manufacture xyz which is used in abc which another community uses in a specific industry,  the more closer we get as a people. Economic integration is slow, but the only solution to age old biases and prejudices.

[Mariyam]

13 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

the moral of the story : A muslim will always be a muslim, how ever fake secularists try to change their minds there is a limit after which they can't change in  general.Can find exceptions, but they are very rare. The reason for this.... simple ...... blind belief in the book Quran  where plain and blind  intolerance towards different   streams of  thinking  is the  basis.

 

Results of this type of thinking: If muslims  are allowed to  increase disproportionately in numbers  and thereby allowed to reach being a substantial share  in the country population, they will start showing their true colours of creating restlessness on the basis of religion thru out the nation. 

 

Solution: to profess religious tolerance among such  religious fanatic blind believers and change their minds is virtually impossible.  The most effective way is to keep them in check.Morons like Nehru,Gandhi etc were the main reasons in giving minority rights to these fanatics  and allowing them to grow this much. Don't allow any further special privilages to them .Central governments  should take strict ruthless actions  to ensure that     disproportionate increase in their numbers and  their political influence  do not grow beyond a limit at any given point of time.

 

People who are still in delusion that this is not a problem and that such extremists are every where should keep this in mind - despite being among the majority in this country and despite having extremists in the majority communities too, these minority  muslims are able to maintain  prosperous living(even better than that of majority community people in general) in India. Think of the reverse , specifically in Pakistan.Learn a lot from that and act accordingly.

I'm afraid the part in bold just isn't true. Muslims in India are poorer than Hindus. And fare worse on most HDI parameters. Muslims are more urban, but not better off by any stretch. 

Take a look at the Sachar committee report. And what are these special privileges that you speak of? 

[Dil Dil India]

By keeping up this narrative we are playing into Pakistan's hands, I keep saying this again and again. If you notice their political narrative, they have been very vocal about how (in their twisted, convoluted heads) Indian Muslims will support Pakistan if there is a war (Sheikh Rashid and some other moron said this). Instead of trying to strengthen ourselves internally, we still engage in this stupidity. Now, I like vayuu as a poster and I don't doubt this happened, but as beetle and others have pointed out, this isn't exclusive to any religion. There was a joker called Dhoni fan(probably not even Indian) who posted some chit a few days back. Pakistanis are masters of misdirection and lies. They have already started their propaganda...every such post is like mithai for them.

[vayuu1]

46 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

By keeping up this narrative we are playing into Pakistan's hands, I keep saying this again and again. If you notice their political narrative, they have been very vocal about how (in their twisted, convoluted heads) Indian Muslims will support Pakistan if there is a war (Sheikh Rashid and some other moron said this). Instead of trying to strengthen ourselves internally, we still engage in this stupidity. Now, I like vayuu as a poster and I don't doubt this happened, but as beetle and others have pointed out, this isn't exclusive to any religion. There was a joker called Dhoni fan(probably not even Indian) who posted some chit a few days back. Pakistanis are masters of misdirection and lies. They have already started their propaganda...every such post is like mithai for them.

Look, it is not about agenda all I said was that govt need to curb this, I didn't said that we need to go at war with minorities in India, I firmly believe that taking over religious institutions under govt and their educational institutions is a major step, no matter how much RR these guys make but Mark my words this could be a decisive step, and I am not just restricted to madarsa but all institutions. 

[vayuu1]

This can effectively help in not just stop this brainwashing but effectively destroy the plans of evangelists and Arabs to a major extent. 

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

By keeping up this narrative we are playing into Pakistan's hands, I keep saying this again and again. If you notice their political narrative, they have been very vocal about how (in their twisted, convoluted heads) Indian Muslims will support Pakistan if there is a war (Sheikh Rashid and some other moron said this). Instead of trying to strengthen ourselves internally, we still engage in this stupidity. Now, I like vayuu as a poster and I don't doubt this happened, but as beetle and others have pointed out, this isn't exclusive to any religion. There was a joker called Dhoni fan(probably not even Indian) who posted some chit a few days back. Pakistanis are masters of misdirection and lies. They have already started their propaganda...every such post is like mithai for them.

There are doubts about Javed Akhter, Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan if they are loyal to India or not. 

 

And at this forum, there are doubts if I am a secret agent of ISI/Mullahs or not. 

 

@Dil Dil India, 
I could only tell you for me Humanity comes before being Pakistani or any religion. 

 

This post consists of reality of our society, where kids are being poisoned by parents and the society. If we don't talk about them, how are we going to reform our society? 

 

And don't be afraid of criticism upon yourself. No one is 100% perfect. Not even your side. 

[Alam_dar]

6 hours ago, nikred said:

Hindus get converted by taking money and other benefits. That is true atleast in states of AP and Telangana. There are many of these converts who belong to Reddy caste. Before you go on another rant, I belong to that caste but have no freakin reason to convert.

Reddys are politically highly influencial and most of them are financially well to do as well, especially those from AP where you see more of these converts.
It's all about the money and lucrative jobs in teaching institutions, there is no belief angle there.
 

 

 

If rich people of Reddys are also converting for more benefits, then again it is their right.

 

It shows only this that these rich people are not spiritually connected with Hinduism. Otherwise, if someone is spiritually connected, then he does not convert even for money. Why then to enforce such people to stay within the domain of Hinduism?

 

Use of force and threatening people is wrong. At maximum, Hindu community could itself open schools of high standards and could present other incentives. 

 

And secondly, you could PREACH and quote the Bible to these people, which is full of fanaticism and falsehood, just like Quran and Ahadith. I see a lot of such stuff on the ex-Christians Atheists groups. That is why born Christians in Europe are leaving Christianity at rapid pace themselves. 

 

Fact is, our younger generations will stop speaking regional and even the national languages and they will be speaking only English sooner or later as their mother tongue. 

 

Fact is, our younger generations will stop being religious too sooner or later. 

 

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

The more intertwined our economy gets, ie a certain community who manufacture xyz which is used in abc which another community uses in a specific industry,  the more closer we get as a people. Economic integration is slow, but the only solution to age old biases and prejudices.

Exactly.

But I am afraid that it worked in the history. 

Today, modern industry is not community based as it used to be. Thus economic integration is perhaps showing negative trend today. 

 

In modern era, it seems to me that the ultimate positive force for the integration of a society is Secularism.