Pandya is the only “allrounder” to neither have a 50 or a 4fr

[sandeep]

33 minutes ago, First class said:

Stats are not the only thing, he was able to bowl 10 overs in most of the matches,and had useful contribution in batting and took 10 wickets even with many front line wicket taking bowlers, he did a good job as an all rounder. He is behind Stokes and Neeshan but better than rest of the fast bowling all rounders. 

In what way is he "behind" Neesham? 

[maniac]

Unbelievable atl east guys like Rohit,Virat and Dhoni have a great body of work that speaks for itself and have these hardcore fans (not me :) ) but even guys like Pant and Pandya have these militant defenders (Zen well I can understand :) )  who have done jack .

 

Look I think Pant has a great potential but Pandya sorry has gotten the most golden treatment ever in the history if Indian cricket and hasn't lived up to the hype. as a fellow person who grew up in Mumbai would say bits and pieces to the core.

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Pandya bowled more overs than Stokes.  Took more wickets than Stokes.  Didn't have the luxury of being 6th or 7th bowler, had to front up and bowl during difficult times - which he did, reasonably well.  

 

Its interesting how you bend over backwards swallowing your own s**t trying to minimize the value of Pandya's innings against Australia - which arguably ended up being the difference between winning and losing that game.  

  

There's a reason why the consensus on Pandya's WC is that he did well.  And the only moroniac with an agenda trying to bash him, isn't really getting the traction he hoped for.  But you do you.  Its a free forum.  Others are free to call out your trash too though.  

  

Time for you to go run and hide, and come back as global baba, or whatever weirdness floats your boat.  

You numbnut. despite being the 6th bowler, Stokes has impressive stats. how convinently have you skipped Neesham and even Stokes batting performance. looks like you get off on 10 mins of porn than a meaningful relationship. That wasn't personal. just an analogy

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

In what way is he "behind" Neesham? 

Neeshan has a 5fr. took a catch of the tournament and played a knock of 97* when his team was 6 wickets down for less than 100. comeback when Pandya does that, still jacking off to that meaningless CT knock are we?

[maniac]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

It is quality over quantity  .... certain someone can't even bat in MO

Doesn't need to unlike Pandya he knows his role and excels at it

[zen]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Unbelievable atl east guys like Rohit,Virat and Dhoni have a great body of work that speaks for itself and have these hardcore fans (not me :) ) but even guys like Pant and Pandya have these militant defenders (Zen well I can understand :) )  who have done jack .

 

Look I think Pant has a great potential but Pandya sorry has gotten the most golden treatment ever in the history if Indian cricket and hasn't lived up to the hype. as a fellow person who grew up in Mumbai would say bits and pieces to the core.

 

Established players do not need much support. Pant and Pandya are unique talents and in the early phase of their careers, and have been outshining some of the others in various formats including Tests and T20s (MI won IPL because of likes of Pandya for e.g.)

 

I am sure Rohit was supported too when he was new. I hope that you too will look to support youngsters rather than joining the bandwagon once they eventually become big or bigger 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Doesn't need to unlike Pandya he knows his role and excels at it

The role that he can't play to perfection when his team needs the most. Gets out for 1 in SF and scores useless 100s vs Eng (which made Ind lose the game) and SL (when others in the team needed hit in the middle which could have helped them in SF)

Edited July 11, 2019 by zen

[Dil Dil India]

15 minutes ago, Praveen Amre said:

Why are you so full of hate, buddy? Unlike you, I hope you do well in your life and learn to appreciate diversity.

Yes appreciating diversity is creating a fake id and propagating casteist nonsense like you are. Piss off Pakistani.

[maniac]

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

Established players do not need much support. Pant and Pandya are unique talents and in the early phase of their careers, and have been outshining some of the others in various formats including Tests and T20s (MI won IPL because of likes of Pandya for e.g.)

 

I am sure Rohit was supported too when he was new. I hope that you too will look to support youngsters rather than joining the bandwagon once they eventually become big or bigger 

I believe in backing talents and at the same time there is thin line of where you draw the line. you have it or you don't. Most ATG's are not manufactured, you see it in them from the first few games itself. That is why still not given up on Pant but Pandya has been around for 3 years. Kapil debuted in 79 and by 83 he played the greatest ODI knock of all time and captained his team to the WC. Was considered to be one of the greatest all rounders already

[zen]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

I believe in backing talents and at the same time there is thin line of where you draw the line. you have it or you don't. Most ATG's are not manufactured, you see it in them from the first few games itself. That is why still not given up on Pant but Pandya has been around for 3 years. Kapil debuted in 79 and by 83 he played the greatest ODI knock of all time and captained his team to the WC. Was considered to be one of the greatest all rounders already

Pandya himself has said that he is not Kapil Dev. While his utility over others for the role he is currently playing has been already discussed in details  .... and of course, if he gets to consistently bat higher, he will do well there too. Has an overseas test 100 and 5-er

Edited July 11, 2019 by zen

[Praveen Amre]

40 minutes ago, maniac said:

but Rahul is a brahmin

You missed the bold word in my post. Anyway, I don't want to derail your thread. Please assume that I was trolling.

[maniac]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Pandya himself has said that he is not Kapil Dev. While his utility over others for the role he is currently playing has been already discussed in details  .... and of course, if he gets to consistently bat higher, he will do well there too. Has an overseas test 100 and 5-er

The 5fr was good even though 100 was whatever against SL. Binny's 6fr is one of the most memorable odi spells of all time and he saved a test for India with 80+ but still bits and pieces. We want Pandya to be a Kapil Dev, if he thinks he is not one then hope it is not Binny

[First class]

27 minutes ago, sandeep said:

In what way is he "behind" Neesham? 

Neeshan was better bowler and batsman than Padya in the WC. His innings against Pakistan was one of the best in WC. 

[zen]

8 minutes ago, maniac said:

The 5fr was good even though 100 was whatever against SL. Binny's 6fr is one of the most memorable odi spells of all time and he saved a test for India with 80+ but still bits and pieces. We want Pandya to be a Kapil Dev, if he thinks he is not one then hope it is not Binny

Well, there are various categories b/w (and beyond) Kapil and Binny. I am surprised that you think that there are only two! To help you to visualize the possibilities:

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by zen

[Praveen Amre]

10 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Yes appreciating diversity is creating a fake id and propagating casteist nonsense like you are. Piss off Pakistani.

Okay, buddy. Wipe that froth off your lips and please don't break anything around you. Have a good day.

 

[maniac]

18 minutes ago, zen said:

Well, there are various categories b/w Kapil and Binny. I am surprised that you think that there are only two! To help you to visualize the possibilities:

 

These shades are something we come up with to satisfy our arguments.

 

There are 3 categories of all rounders in cricket-period!

 

A bowling all rounder someone who is your strike bowler. someone who has great skills in the other dept. eg; Kapil, Imran,Pollock, Botham,Hadlee,Ashwin,Jadeja,Mitchell Johnson( in tests), Woakes,Akram etc. yes they may have varying talent in the other skill but still it is all one group. Even if they scores 10 ducks they will be in the side as a pure bowler

 

A batting allrounder- Your Top order bat who is great with the ball again with varying levels in the other dept Ben Stokes, Jacques Kallis, Gary Sobers, Ravi Shastri, Shane Watson, Shakib,Jayasuriya,Sachin,Yuvraj,Sehwag etc. even if they can't bowl they will make it to the side on batting alone

 

Bits and pieces- Grandhomme, Afridi, Chris Harris, Binny, Pandya,Hollioake,Irani etc. what are their primary skills?

 

As you can see within these 3 groups there are some who may be better than the other in a specific skill for example Afridi is a better bowler than say Irani or Kallis is a better bowler than Jayasuriya or Kapil a better bat than Mitchell Johnson within that specific group.

 

The "specialist" allrounder in my book is bits and pieces someone who is keeping the bench warm for a really skilled player. Pandya right now is category 3. That is not derogatory though, these bits and pieces can win you a match or 2 as all of those guys have but they are only stop gap. Afridi had a long career and hence him and  his country is the butt of all jokes. India is a proud cricketing nation and we don't need bits and pieces players, we will get a skilled batsman or bowler who will be decent in the other skill if we look hard enough

Edited July 11, 2019 by maniac

[Dil Dil India]

25 minutes ago, Praveen Amre said:

Okay, buddy. Wipe that froth off your lips and please don't break anything around you. Have a good day.

 

Casteist fake id moron, zip it and piss off.

[zen]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

These shades are something we come up with to satisfy our arguments.

 

There are 3 categories of all rounders in cricket-period!

 

A bowling all rounder someone who is your strike bowler. someone who has great skills in the other dept. eg; Kapil, Imran,Pollock, Botham,Hadlee,Ashwin,Jadeja,Mitchell Johnson( in tests), Woakes,Akram etc. yes they may have varying talent in the other skill but still it is all one group. Even if they scores 10 ducks they will be in the side as a pure bowler

 

A batting allrounder- Your Top order bat who is great with the ball again with varying levels in the other dept Ben Stokes, Jacques Kallis, Gary Sobers, Ravi Shastri, Shane Watson, Shakib,Jayasuriya,Sachin,Yuvraj,Sehwag etc. even if they can't bowl they will make it to the side on batting alone

 

Bits and pieces- Grandhomme, Afridi, Chris Harris, Binny, Pandya,Hollioake,Irani etc. what are their primary skills?

 

As you can see within these 3 groups there are some who may be better than the other in a specific skill for example Afridi is a better bowler than say Irani or Kallis is a better bowler than Jayasuriya or Kapil a better bat than Mitchell Johnson within that specific group.

 

The "specialist" allrounder in my book is bits and pieces someone who is keeping the bench warm for a really skilled player. Pandya right now is category 3. That is not derogatory though, these bits and pieces can win you a match or 2 as all of those guys have but they are only stop gap. Afridi had a long career and hence him and  his country is the butt of all jokes. India is a proud cricketing nation and we don't need bits and pieces players, we will get a skilled batsman or bowler who will be decent in the other skill if we look hard enough

You can have your categories and place him wherever you please. It does not take away the fact that he offers value to the Indian team as a) its best high SR batsman (and good enough to be in the team for that alone), b) its 3rd or 4th pacer (bowls 140+), and c) among its best fielders 

 

For me, an AR is someone selected for his ability to contribute in 2 disciplines batting + bowling/WKing. So if Pant is picked over Saha as wk in tests, it is because he is expected to contribute with the bat as well. What value the ARs add depends on various factors. Which is why I said there are various shades

 

A player has to participate in both disciplines on consistent basis or frequently enough to be considered one. Unlike what you said, for e.g. Yuvi is not an AR if he is only batting and not bowling frequently enough. 

 

I see that you have classified Ashwin and Jadeja as ARs in ODIs, when neither of them are played over Pandya as an AR  

 

PS don’t forget that a specialist like Rohit, who is a liability in bowling friendly conditions, is neither useful with the bat, or in the field or with the ball in such conditions (or when he stops getting chances)

Edited July 12, 2019 by zen

[Praveen Amre]

44 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Casteist fake id moron, zip it and piss off.

I leave. Just keep in mind that whatever new trouble you find yourself in, it will not be because of me.

[CG]

Dropped on a single digit score every time, he made a 50+ score   .... For hint - against NZ, there was no drop, so got out for 1

Your obsession with Rohit is sick man.Dropped chances are part of game when you are opening in England you are bound to give chances.