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India cap is not cheap- players like Dube devalue it


maniac

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I might have been harsh on Dube.
 

See any Indian player no matter what the talent level is or age is, I hope they succeed. Nothing but good will.

 

There is nothing personal about Dube here, my complaint was that he got a chance ahead of other skilled players just because he could roll his arm over. I personally wanted Gill or Samson in his place.

 

A specialist batsman along with playing a proper knock  can turn on the heat and tonk the ball around when required but a so called specialist hitter is usually very one dimensional.  Now if he makes it on his bowling is another debate. I have never had problem with Hardik in T20s because his bowling  is more than adequate as a 5th-6th bowler in that format, brilliant fielder  and can hit big. 
 

I will be happy to be proven wrong if Dube turns out to be the next Yuvraj or even better the next Kapil Dev. The fact is his pathway to the team  is still wrong. No hate. Hope he does well for his sake.

Edited by maniac
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35 minutes ago, maniac said:

I might have been harsh on Dube.
 

See any Indian player no matter what the talent level is or age is, I hope they succeed. Nothing but good will.

 

There is nothing personal about Dube here, my complaint was that he got a chance ahead of other skilled players just because he could roll his arm over. I personally wanted Gill or Samson in his place.

 

A specialist batsman along with playing a proper knock  can turn on the heat and tonk the ball around when required but a so called specialist hitter is usually very one dimensional.  Now if he makes it on his bowling is another debate. I have never had problem with Hardik in T20s because his bowling  is more than adequate as a 5th-6th bowler in that format, brilliant fielder  and can hit big. 
 

I will be happy to be proven wrong if Dube turns out to be the next Yuvraj or even better the next Kapil Dev. The fact is his pathway to the team  is still wrong. No hate. Hope he does well for his sake.

I don't think he will ever be a yuvraj ,yuvraj was at some other level

People here may differ,but i feel he was the most gifted cricketer ever to play lois for India

Still Dube is one who should be given ample space and time,he may solve our lower middle order problem in times to come

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

 

There is nothing personal about Dube here, my complaint was that he got a chance ahead of other skilled players just because he could roll his arm over. I personally wanted Gill or Samson in his place.

Gill n Samson dont bat in lower order even in ipl their runs have come up the order .....n they are touch player u wnt bat at them at 6,7

Batting at 6,7 is a diff skill .....Best  place to bat in LOI is top 3 and toughest is 6, 7 which is why dhoni,bevan are regarded so highly around the world.

 

Thats old school thinking.....far away from modern cricket

Quote

A specialist batsman along with playing a proper knock  can turn on the heat and tonk the ball around when required but a so called specialist hitter is usually very one dimensional.

Most of these specialist batsman cant do the role of batting at 6,7 .. Even the great yuvraj singh career went on track when he started batting at 4.....till he was at 6 it was not going so smooth

Quote

I will be happy to be proven wrong if Dube turns out to be the next Yuvraj or even better the next Kapil Dev.

 

Again very wrong expectation.....kapil n yuvraj are once in life time player. Rather becoming names they shud do their job.....

Raina didnt become yuvi doesnt mean he didnt have his value 

Quote

The fact is his pathway to the team  is still wrong. No hate. Hope he does well for his sake.

Which still u have not answered despite everyone telling that he has performed everywhere to earn that cap ....since when is performing wrong path

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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1 hour ago, maniac said:

I might have been harsh on Dube.
 

See any Indian player no matter what the talent level is or age is, I hope they succeed. Nothing but good will.

 

There is nothing personal about Dube here, my complaint was that he got a chance ahead of other skilled players just because he could roll his arm over. I personally wanted Gill or Samson in his place.

 

A specialist batsman along with playing a proper knock  can turn on the heat and tonk the ball around when required but a so called specialist hitter is usually very one dimensional.  Now if he makes it on his bowling is another debate. I have never had problem with Hardik in T20s because his bowling  is more than adequate as a 5th-6th bowler in that format, brilliant fielder  and can hit big. 
 

I will be happy to be proven wrong if Dube turns out to be the next Yuvraj or even better the next Kapil Dev. The fact is his pathway to the team  is still wrong. No hate. Hope he does well for his sake.

To start with hope he is better than Abid Ali first.

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58 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Gill n Samson dont bat in lower order even in ipl their runs have come up the order .....n they are touch player u wnt bat at them at 6,7

Batting at 6,7 is a diff skill .....Best  place to bat in LOI is top 3 and toughest is 6, 7 which is why dhoni,bevan are regarded so highly around the world.

 

Thats old school thinking.....far away from modern cricket

Most of these specialist batsman cant do the role of batting at 6,7 .. Even the great yuvraj singh career went on track when he started batting at 4.....till he was at 6 it was not going so smooth

Again very wrong expectation.....kapil n yuvraj are once in life time player. Rather becoming names they shud do their job.....

Raina didnt become yuvi doesnt mean he didnt have his value 

Which still u have not answered despite everyone telling that he has performed everywhere to earn that cap ....since when is performing wrong path

 

Ok Time to put this to rest

 

He has a T20 Strike rate of 139.00 after 20 games which is not earth shattering but ok fine benefit of doubt. Average of 17. Chalo benefit of doubt yet again because T20 average doesn't matter. I don't remember him doing anything of note in the IPL where quality of bowlers is significantly better than Syed Mushtaq Ali. So what is this great performance you keep talking about?

 

In ODI's I agree he does have an impressive average of 43 and S/R of 121 but he has 1 100 and 1 50 and 9 not outs and only 600 odd runs. How is that a gread body of work? Now that clearly proves the theory that he was selected on some cameos. That is what I have a problem with. Out of 35 matches he got to bat in only 23 games, which shows top order made merry on some of the easiest of pitched. If he was this big stud of a player, sure he could have been pushed up the order in a lot more games.

 

However, he does seem to have made a stellar start to his FC career. We are not talking about tests here are we? even if that was the criteria he is behind the pecking order.

 

Bowling he has less than a wicket per match in the LOI format.

 

 

Edited by maniac
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16 minutes ago, maniac said:

Ok Time to put this to rest

 

He has a T20 Strike rate of 139.00 after 20 games which is not earth shattering but ok fine benefit of doubt. Average of 17. Chalo benefit of doubt yet again because T20 average doesn't matter. I don't remember him doing anything of note in the IPL where quality of bowlers is significantly better than Syed Mushtaq Ali. So what is this great performance you keep talking about?

In IPL when u go to RCB u cant do anything ......he was given only 4 games that to with no fixed role . There is a reason youngster suck in RCB

 

India A tours arent gr8 perfomance....where he smashed nortje , dala , hendricks 

he smashed 118 in 58 balls against karanatka which had gopal, gowtham very good bowlers

 

Quote

In ODI's I agree he does have an impressive average of 43 and S/R of 121 but he has 1 100 and 1 50 and 9 not outs and only 600 odd runs. How is that a gread body of work? Now that clearly proves the theory that he was selected on some cameos.

u cant have an avg of 48 in ranji n 43 in first class batting at 6 n 7 by just cameos 

 

Most runs
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
Shubman Gill 2 3 1 244 204* 122.00 336 72.61 1 0 1 22 3
(India A)
GH Vihari 3 6 1 224 118* 44.80 505 44.35 1 1 1 20 1
(India A)
SW Ambris 2 4 0 195 71 48.75 322 60.55 0 2 0 22 1
(West Indies A)
PK Panchal 3 6 0 194 68 32.33 456 42.54 0 2 0 24 1
(India A)
JL Solozano 2 4 1 181 92 60.33 541 33.45 0 2 0 17 0
(West Indies A)
S Dube 3 4 1 180 79 60.00 242 74.38 0 2 0 21 6
(India A)

 

20-30 runs less then batsman in WI-A tour does that look cameos 

 

Most runs
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
RR Hendricks 5 5 1 239 110 59.75 243 98.35 1 2 0 30 2
(South Africa A)
H Klaasen 5 5 1 168 58 42.00 114 147.36 0 1 0 6 14
(South Africa A)
S Dube 4 4 3 155 79* 155.00 107 144.85 0 1 0 8 11

(India A)

 

 

 

3rd highest scorer in SA-A series.....yea right cameos 

 

 

Quote

That is what I have a problem with. Out of 35 matches he got to bat in only 23 games, which shows top order made merry on some of the easiest of pitched. If he was this big stud of a player, sure he could have been pushed up the order in a lot more games.

at 6, 7 u dnt get to bat much 

Quote

However, he does seem to have made a stellar start to his FC career. We are not talking about tests here are we? even if that was the criteria he is behind the pecking order.

 

 

 

5 sixes in any format in one over is never easy this is ranji in his 1st season

 

 

79 against SA -A cant be a cameo

 

atleast do some research rather looking at overall stats on cricinfo

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he shud get all next 3 series SL, WI, BANG

4-5 wud also be less as he bats at 6-7 where players hardly get proper chances

he is an all rounder , he should get at least 9 to 10 games.

 

team invested in hardik has yielded good results. team should invest in dube as he has created a big impression so he deserves 10 games at least.

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13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

In IPL when u go to RCB u cant do anything ......he was given only 4 games that to with no fixed role . There is a reason youngster suck in RCB

 

India A tours arent gr8 perfomance....where he smashed nortje , dala , hendricks 

he smashed 118 in 58 balls against karanatka which had gopal, gowtham very good bowlers

 

u cant have an avg of 48 in ranji n 43 in first class batting at 6 n 7 by just cameos 

 

Most runs
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
Shubman Gill 2 3 1 244 204* 122.00 336 72.61 1 0 1 22 3
(India A)
GH Vihari 3 6 1 224 118* 44.80 505 44.35 1 1 1 20 1
(India A)
SW Ambris 2 4 0 195 71 48.75 322 60.55 0 2 0 22 1
(West Indies A)
PK Panchal 3 6 0 194 68 32.33 456 42.54 0 2 0 24 1
(India A)
JL Solozano 2 4 1 181 92 60.33 541 33.45 0 2 0 17 0
(West Indies A)
S Dube 3 4 1 180 79 60.00 242 74.38 0 2 0 21 6
(India A)

 

20-30 runs less then batsman in WI-A tour does that look cameos 

 

Most runs
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
RR Hendricks 5 5 1 239 110 59.75 243 98.35 1 2 0 30 2
(South Africa A)
H Klaasen 5 5 1 168 58 42.00 114 147.36 0 1 0 6 14
(South Africa A)
S Dube 4 4 3 155 79* 155.00 107 144.85 0 1 0 8 11

(India A)

 

 

 

3rd highest scorer in SA-A series.....yea right cameos 

 

 

at 6, 7 u dnt get to bat much 

 

 

5 sixes in any format in one over is never easy this is ranji in his 1st season

 

 

79 against SA -A cant be a cameo

 

atleast do some research rather looking at overall stats on cricinfo

 

 

 

 

 

So 4 out of 20 games he failed because of RCB but gets an Indian cap based on 16 games in Syed Mushtaq Ali. Thanks for proving my point, Nothing against Dube but this kind of fast induction without having a large body of work is what I have a problem with.

 

48 in Ranji or FC? are we selecting for test cricket. So fine he did well in a couple of A series in 4-5 day format, so you want him to jump ahead of all the other batsmen waiting in the wings? should he replace Vihari? Can't Gill play in tests at 6? 

 

You showed me 2 innings which I already acknowledged are his only body of work. So now you are telling me he doesn't get to bat at 6? ok in that case he should get a shot when he has enough body of work at 6.

 

Till then I am sorry he got selected 1-2 freak knocks and a couple of cameos.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, maniac said:

So 4 out of 20 games he failed because of RCB but gets an Indian cap based on 16 games in Syed Mushtaq Ali. Thanks for proving my point, Nothing against Dube but this kind of fast induction without having a large body of work is what I have a problem with.

what 20 games has he failed 

U need hitter in lower order n ull wait for him to play 5 yrs domestic n till then what ull play rahane

Quote

48 in Ranji or FC? are we selecting for test cricket. So fine he did well in a couple of A series in 4-5 day format, so you want him to jump ahead of all the other batsmen waiting in the wings? should he replace Vihari? Can't Gill play in tests at 6? 

So cant he bat quickly....what else is the criteria for his job 

Did well in most chances....

 

u asked for perfomances i showed u that ......now dnt twist it coz ur claim of his cameo is gone for toss

Did anyone say here get him in test???

Quote

You showed me 2 innings which I already acknowledged are his only body of work. So now you are telling me he doesn't get to bat at 6? ok in that case he should get a shot when he has enough body of work at 6.

Then lets get back thala

Coz the problem is ppl like u will keep crying we need new blood and when u get u ask where is the experience. If we keep waiting for large body of work we ll only play 30 yr olds and then ull cry we play oldies 

Quote

Till then I am sorry he got selected 1-2 freak knocks and a couple of cameos.

how poor is ur maths

1-2 knocks ...i have shown 2 A tours in which he is in top 5 , ranji, List A 

u think all that perfomances can be achieved with 1-2 knocks .....srsly kaisi counting hai

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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18 minutes ago, maniac said:

So 4 out of 20 games he failed because of RCB but gets an Indian cap based on 16 games in Syed Mushtaq Ali. Thanks for proving my point, Nothing against Dube but this kind of fast induction without having a large body of work is what I have a problem with.

 

48 in Ranji or FC? are we selecting for test cricket. So fine he did well in a couple of A series in 4-5 day format, so you want him to jump ahead of all the other batsmen waiting in the wings? should he replace Vihari? Can't Gill play in tests at 6? 

 

You showed me 2 innings which I already acknowledged are his only body of work. So now you are telling me he doesn't get to bat at 6? ok in that case he should get a shot when he has enough body of work at 6.

 

Till then I am sorry he got selected 1-2 freak knocks and a couple of cameos.

 

 

He has to play all three matches and they have done right thing by selecting him. I don't see any other big hitters in the system. This guy has the ability to hit,  is he going to be next Yuvraj Singh , I doubt it. Can he hit international bowling is the question.I just don't see any great young batting talent in the system.

 

Gill and Shaw are not suited for T20s that too in middle order.Gill might become a very good test opener and very good odi opener , I don't think he has the game yet for power play.I don't want him to become  like another Rahul who in effort to become power player lost his technique.

 

 

Edited by putrevus
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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Gill and Shaw are not suited for T20s that too in middle order.Gill might become a very good test opener and very good odi opener , I don't think he has the game yet to develop power play.I don't want him to become  like another Rahul who in effort to become power player lost his technique.

 

Agreed somewhat 

Gill in t20 can only work if Kohli n Rohit doesnt play he cant play with those as then all 3 batsman will be of similar time who take time n starts hitting around the end 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agreed somewhat 

Gill in t20 can only work if Kohli n Rohit doesnt play he cant play with those as then all 3 batsman will be of similar time who take time n starts hitting around the end 

 

 

 

If I am the management , I will tell Gill to forget T20s and keep playing IPL and develop power play at his own pace. He still has lot consistency issues in List A.But I will get him to play odis at any chance they get and when Kohli is not playing odis I will make him no3. 

 

I want to see him play test cricket.

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6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agreed somewhat 

Gill in t20 can only work if Kohli n Rohit doesnt play he cant play with those as then all 3 batsman will be of similar time who take time n starts hitting around the end 

 

 

 

Shreyas iyer was thought the same way but he has been smacking good bowling with a great strike rate too. That is why quality bat quality bat hota hai aur bits and pieces player bits and pieces hota hai.

 

Can you tell me last time an Indian big hitting allrounder won us a game?

 

Apart from the Pathan bros knock against Srilanka don’t remember any.

 

Obviously don’t count Yuvraj and Raina as allrounders.

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4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Shreyas iyer was thought the same way but he has been smacking good bowling with a great strike rate too. That is why quality bat quality bat hota hai aur bits and pieces player bits and pieces hota hai.

No iyer was always knwn to destroy spin in middle overs .....nyone who has seen him in domestic wud knw

khila le quality batsman ko 6,7 

 

Rohit to 4 pe fail tha.....6,7 pe to career hi na hota

Quote

Can you tell me last time an Indian big hitting allrounder won us a game?

hardik pandya vs Aus in WC, his knock was game changing 

MOS vs Aus in home series for his batting

his 45 vs nz in NZ that got us to total that won us

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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11 minutes ago, maniac said:

Shreyas iyer was thought the same way but he has been smacking good bowling with a great strike rate too. That is why quality bat quality bat hota hai aur bits and pieces player bits and pieces hota hai.

 

Can you tell me last time an Indian big hitting allrounder won us a game?

 

Apart from the Pathan bros knock against Srilanka don’t remember any.

 

Obviously don’t count Yuvraj and Raina as allrounders.

This Indian team never needed batting allrounder, India needs bowling allrounders in all formats. Bowlers who are capable of batting is what India needs. But in T20s you need a power hitter who can smack sixes. Indian team has been lacking power hitting since Yuvraj and Raina.Rohit is the power hitter for this team.

 

This guy if he can hit from ball one then I don't see why he does not deserve his spot.

 

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3 hours ago, maniac said:

I might have been harsh on Dube.
 

See any Indian player no matter what the talent level is or age is, I hope they succeed. Nothing but good will.

 

There is nothing personal about Dube here, my complaint was that he got a chance ahead of other skilled players just because he could roll his arm over. I personally wanted Gill or Samson in his place.

 

A specialist batsman along with playing a proper knock  can turn on the heat and tonk the ball around when required but a so called specialist hitter is usually very one dimensional.  Now if he makes it on his bowling is another debate. I have never had problem with Hardik in T20s because his bowling  is more than adequate as a 5th-6th bowler in that format, brilliant fielder  and can hit big. 
 

I will be happy to be proven wrong if Dube turns out to be the next Yuvraj or even better the next Kapil Dev. The fact is his pathway to the team  is still wrong. No hate. Hope he does well for his sake.

I am all positive about him but i need to give my views after i see him in at least next two games.

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53 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agreed somewhat 

Gill in t20 can only work if Kohli n Rohit doesnt play he cant play with those as then all 3 batsman will be of similar time who take time n starts hitting around the end 

 

 

 

i think gill should soon replace Rahane or Pujara in near future.

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