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Gollum

Verdict on Iyer-KL duo?

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1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

Actually another guy who has impressed me and turned it around is Pandey. I think he is a good back up for Iyer. I think the trio of Pandey-Iyer-Rahul has added good depth to the side. Rahul can keep so added bonus. Wish one of them bowled though.

Iyer is working on his leg spin in the nets, want to see the captain trust him more.  

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3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Hope Pant is the answer to that, must not lose faith, he is just 22.

 

Problem is Rahul has officially become a Super star from  this series.

 

He is a keeper bat now in LOIs. 
 

Rahul is not going anywhere now.

 

So playing Pant or Rahul purely as a bat means losing out on an extra option. The TM will be tempted to  balance it out with an extra Pure  batsman or an allrounder.

 

Bad luck for Pant and also TM has screwed him over but on the bright side Rahul has become a fixture as a keeper bat

Edited by Global.Baba

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Important thing is they must be allowed to fail, give them a continuous run for min 40 matches in fixed positions since no big tournament in next 3 years. Allow them to experiment, explore, face different match situations: recovering from 20/3 or final flourish at 300/3, they will only learn with experience. Yuvi-MS didn't become that beastly duo overnight. 

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2 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Problem is Rahul has officially become a Super star from  this series.

 

He is a keeper bat now in LOIs. 
 

Rahul is not going anywhere now.

 

So playing Pant or Rahul purely as a bat means losing out on an extra option. The TM will be tempted to  balance it out with an extra Pure  batsman or an allrounder.

 

Bad luck for Pant and also TM has screwed him over but on the bright side Rahul has become a fixture as a keeper bat

Right but they have enough time to figure that out. I fear mental disintegration of Pant is complete. Anyway we have a large enough talent pool. 

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these two should have been brought together at 4 & 5 right after CT final in  2017 - they were ready even back then. But Brat preferred wasting time with Rayudu, Karthik, Jadhav (Iyer can deliver equally as a bowler, just needs to be given the target & confidence). A poor run and who knows, there heads cld be on chopping block again

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Iyer is a modern LOI bat, which is an upgrade from the likes of Rayudu, even Manish Pandey.  Although the latter is more solid and reliable than Shreyas, who instinctively bats at a higher level of risk.  

 

In an alternate universe, I would have loved to see Virat drop down to #4, to accomodate Rahul in the top 3.  Even at #3 he would be a better fit than at #5.  As good as Rahul is, I'd rather have him at #5 than not at all.  

 

 

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42 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Iyer is a modern LOI bat, which is an upgrade from the likes of Rayudu, even Manish Pandey.  Although the latter is more solid and reliable than Shreyas, who instinctively bats at a higher level of risk.  

 

In an alternate universe, I would have loved to see Virat drop down to #4, to accomodate Rahul in the top 3.  Even at #3 he would be a better fit than at #5.  As good as Rahul is, I'd rather have him at #5 than not at all.  

 

 

I wanted Virat to drop down the order since Dhoni’s decline , think it would have helped the team lot more and most likely we would not have lost all the big ICC KO games , but at this point I prefer KL at 5 and Virat can stay at 3 . 
 

KL has an outside chance at greatness batting at 5 , if he has a good 4-5 years and wins us matches regularly imo . If he opens , he will just be another top order bat with inflated stats . I think he can end with 50+ avg and 100-110 sr , which will win us lot more matches than he could at the top .No specialist opener has ever dropped down the order and has been successful, would be great if KL can do that . 

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1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

Problem is Rahul has officially become a Super star from  this series.

 

He is a keeper bat now in LOIs. 
 

Rahul is not going anywhere now.

 

So playing Pant or Rahul purely as a bat means losing out on an extra option. The TM will be tempted to  balance it out with an extra Pure  batsman or an allrounder.

 

Bad luck for Pant and also TM has screwed him over but on the bright side Rahul has become a fixture as a keeper bat

Pant can still open imo , always thought he was better suited there with his approach.  


Am still not sold on Iyer , happy if am proven wrong but I don’t like batsmen who play such high risk shots even for singles . He’s mentally strong and a busy player , but every few have survived with that technique. 
 

Pant/Shaw

Rohit 

Virat/Gill

Sarfraz 

KL

????

Pandya 

 

This is the linup I would like to see , with Rohit and Virat skipping few bilaterals next 2 years in rotation . Just the big hitting no6 , am not sure as yet .

 


 

 

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One should bat as an opener, other at 3. Let Kohli move to 4 or at 5 to be the finisher. He has to adjust, in any case, at 3, besides scoring lots of runs in bilaterals, he’s been average in global tournaments. If we have to win those trophies, the approach and strategy has to change. Who better than the world’s best to shoulder the responsibilities of building innings or finishing games at 4/5, preferably number 5.
 

Rahul at 5 is a complete waste of his talent. Give him the freedom at the top and let him reel in the big 100s he’s fully capable of.

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1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

I wanted Virat to drop down the order since Dhoni’s decline , think it would have helped the team lot more and most likely we would not have lost all the big ICC KO games , but at this point I prefer KL at 5 and Virat can stay at 3 . 
 

KL has an outside chance at greatness batting at 5 , if he has a good 4-5 years and wins us matches regularly imo . If he opens , he will just be another top order bat with inflated stats . I think he can end with 50+ avg and 100-110 sr , which will win us lot more matches than he could at the top .No specialist opener has ever dropped down the order and has been successful, would be great if KL can do that . 

With our conservative approach in ODIs at the top, Rahul actually may end up playing lots of good knocks at 5 only to find the team short by 25-30 runs, like in this series. 

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3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Problem is Rahul has officially become a Super star from  this series.

 

He is a keeper bat now in LOIs. 
 

Rahul is not going anywhere now.

 

So playing Pant or Rahul purely as a bat means losing out on an extra option. The TM will be tempted to  balance it out with an extra Pure  batsman or an allrounder.

 

Bad luck for Pant and also TM has screwed him over but on the bright side Rahul has become a fixture as a keeper bat

dont see this experiment last for more then one year, someone in commentary was saying Rahul has had some back issues for years which is why making him keep for long wont be a good idea 

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30 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

With our conservative approach in ODIs at the top, Rahul actually may end up playing lots of good knocks at 5 only to find the team short by 25-30 runs, like in this series

In this series, the top order was far from being conservative. Rahul got opportunity to play so many overs only because the top order was not conservative and lost their wickets before 20 overs or so. At least in this series, you cannot blame the top order for falling short as they did not consume many balls. 

 When the real top order is back, he will still get chances like in the SF vs NZ kinda scenarios. He will be greatly appreciated when he can make an impact in such matches. 

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

lets cheer for that man. would like that happening for sure.

will happen for sure....he is one of the best talent i have seen such a talent wont be quite for long. 

I remeber when KL came back a reporter asked him in PC what does he think about constantly being dropped or under pressure of loosing place and he said he stopped thinking about it after a time. 

 

May be going away from this TM for sometime will help pant also as of now this TM has made him feel unwanted 

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3 hours ago, Cricwala said:

these two should have been brought together at 4 & 5 right after CT final in  2017 - they were ready even back then. But Brat preferred wasting time with Rayudu, Karthik, Jadhav (Iyer can deliver equally as a bowler, just needs to be given the target & confidence). A poor run and who knows, there heads cld be on chopping block again

There's  a reason why Rayudu was given more chances than Rahul or Pandey or Iyer at #4.

 

Rayudu was never going to be a genuine threat to become the next poster boy for clothing and sneakers endorsements. 

Edited by sandeep

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Important thing is they must be allowed to fail, give them a continuous run for min 40 matches in fixed positions since no big tournament in next 3 years. Allow them to experiment, explore, face different match situations: recovering from 20/3 or final flourish at 300/3, they will only learn with experience. Yuvi-MS didn't become that beastly duo overnight. 

Trio of Yuvi,Dhoni,Raina had the experience to take India from 50/3 to 320/330... these guys too can do that

 

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24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

There's  a reason why Rayudu was given more chances than Rahul or Pandey or Iyer at #4.

 

Rayudu was never going to be a genuine threat to become the next poster boy for clothing and sneakers endorsements. 

:(( that was also the reason he was disposed.

 

People appreciate the hot administrative secretary over the efficient motherly older secretary that gets the job done :((

 

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7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Have we finally nailed our middle order in ODIs? Keeping in mind that next WC will be in India and both have secondary skill....eager to see Iyer bowl. Should be in their prime age in 2023. 

 

Iyer:

- high tempo, 100+ SR for #4 is good esp with his 50 avg

- spin killer

- good temperament

- six hitter

- ability to find gaps

- survivor, even if he looks hopelessly out of his depth somehow manages to not give it away.....Steve Waugh had that quality, will help in high pressure KO matches 

- should thrive in Indian conditions

 

KLR:

- 360 game

- lesser the time to think, more effective he is

- if he is going to keep (more flexibility/balance to the XI) opening may be too tough on the body...so we extract the best out of him as #5/keeper. Many other excellent top order candidates as well

- consistent

- six hitter

- very good against pace

- explosive...tremendous potential is there, I mean the Butler/ABDV class once his inner beast awakens

- finally looks assured

 

Of course they can improve in some ways, like Iyer's handling of short-pitched stuff, conversion to 100s etc. For KL->better strike rotation against spinners, not getting stuck in first 10-15 balls, not throwing it away....these can be corrected with more experience. More they play together better will be their running between the wickets and maturity to close out the innings, finish matches. 

 

Find of this series for me, finally we have a MO that can be developed into a match winning machine. 

for the time being, I am satisfied with this order. however, ideally I would want gill at 3, kohli at 4 and KLR at 5 (wk) because pant has been dispensed with by TM. no. 6 would be hardik or if sarfaraz can sustain his run

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Looking good. If they're able to sustain this, I can see Indian team for 2023 like this -

 

Shaw

Rohit (back up Gill)

Brat

Iyer

Rahul (back up keeper)

Pant (WK)

Pandya

..

Kuldeep/Bishnoi/Sundar?

Rahul Chahar/Chahal

Saini

Bumrah

 

Batting backups - Gill, Jaiswal

Bowling backups - Prasidh, Tyagi

 

We need to really hunt for a couple of back up allrounders in the absence of Pandya - Dube is clearly not the answer

Edited by Sandeep99

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16 hours ago, jusarrived said:

I wanted Virat to drop down the order since Dhoni’s decline , think it would have helped the team lot more and most likely we would not have lost all the big ICC KO games , but at this point I prefer KL at 5 and Virat can stay at 3 . 
 

KL has an outside chance at greatness batting at 5 , if he has a good 4-5 years and wins us matches regularly imo . If he opens , he will just be another top order bat with inflated stats . I think he can end with 50+ avg and 100-110 sr , which will win us lot more matches than he could at the top .No specialist opener has ever dropped down the order and has been successful, would be great if KL can do that . 

Mike Hussey was a specialist opener, dropped down to 5-6.

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26 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Gollum

 

Why do you hyphenate the two?

KL is the bigger talent and can play in any position from 1-5. Shreyas Iyer is more in the finisher mould.

India should try the following order for a few games keeping the 2023 WC in mind

 

KL Rahul

Rohit

Shaw

Kohli

Iyer

Pant

Hyphenating the two because for many years our middle order has been inept , heartening to see that we are closer to a solution now. Too many top order candidates (Shaw, Mayank, Gill, Padikkal, Ishan....) but our middle order reserves are pretty underwhelming. These two will be valuable (stats won't capture that because of less opportunities to rack up 100s), help Team India's cause much more at 4-5...hope they can emulate prime Yuvi-MS. 

 

Agree KL is a scintillating talent. Sad to see him underachieving so much, I think he is like Gohan (DBZ character, or Hanuman if you don't follow Jap anime), lot of latent power. The day he unleashes his full potential Indian batting will power up to a whole new level, above England. 

Edited by Gollum

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Rahul at No 5 is an absolute lock for me.

 

A perfect No.5 batsman.

 

Can hit big shots at will off both pacers and spinners.  Can improvise too at the end.

 

Has the game to be a very high quality finisher.

 

Bats at a high SR at 5 in ODIs ( and opener in T20s )  ... bats at a lowish SR as an opener in ODIs.

 

Can start scoring from ball one when he comes as a No.5

 

Has the solid game to arrest any batting collapses.

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Iyer is doing a lot of things right. Needs to be given lots of games on the trot at No 4.

 

But his batting against genuine pace, especially if attacked with short pitched stuff, is a concern.

He keeps backing away to quick pacers, even when the team needs him to play safely. Needs to sort out this issue.

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On 2/11/2020 at 9:46 PM, Gollum said:

Iyer is working on his leg spin in the nets, want to see the captain trust him more.  

In my opinion given the tracks, ground and bat size days of batsman who can bowl a bit are gone. You need 5 proper bowler and pray 2 of them can bat a bit. 

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22 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

KL was one receiving end last year like pant is today , pant time will also come 

 

Pant is just  not as talented as Rahul is. doesn't have the range of shots or the technique. 

 

However hes good in his own way and should have been playing  this entire series  rather than warming the bench.

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8 minutes ago, Cricspin said:

Pant is just  not as talented as Rahul is. doesn't have the range of shots or the technique. 

 

However hes good in his own way and should have been playing  this entire series  rather than warming the bench.

pant pref one area more then other doesnt mean he lacks shot range.....he has a huge shot range 

Its just about understanding ur game which is when a batsman hits his peak . The more he ll play the more range he ll develop.

PPl forget when KL came he was a proper test batsman, its after few years he developed a whole new side to him 

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7 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

after KLR's middle order exploits in that t20 in Florida I always saw him as a middle order player (especially considering strength of our 1-3 in ODIs and his wk abilities). Dhoni Saab delayed all that. 

how did dhoni delayed it ???

Next series was vs NZ at home and KL got injured in test series played before ODI . The Next ODI series we played Kohli became captain

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