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Verdict on Iyer-KL duo?


Gollum

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1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

I wanted Virat to drop down the order since Dhoni’s decline , think it would have helped the team lot more and most likely we would not have lost all the big ICC KO games , but at this point I prefer KL at 5 and Virat can stay at 3 . 
 

KL has an outside chance at greatness batting at 5 , if he has a good 4-5 years and wins us matches regularly imo . If he opens , he will just be another top order bat with inflated stats . I think he can end with 50+ avg and 100-110 sr , which will win us lot more matches than he could at the top .No specialist opener has ever dropped down the order and has been successful, would be great if KL can do that . 

With our conservative approach in ODIs at the top, Rahul actually may end up playing lots of good knocks at 5 only to find the team short by 25-30 runs, like in this series. 

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3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Problem is Rahul has officially become a Super star from  this series.

 

He is a keeper bat now in LOIs. 
 

Rahul is not going anywhere now.

 

So playing Pant or Rahul purely as a bat means losing out on an extra option. The TM will be tempted to  balance it out with an extra Pure  batsman or an allrounder.

 

Bad luck for Pant and also TM has screwed him over but on the bright side Rahul has become a fixture as a keeper bat

dont see this experiment last for more then one year, someone in commentary was saying Rahul has had some back issues for years which is why making him keep for long wont be a good idea 

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30 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

With our conservative approach in ODIs at the top, Rahul actually may end up playing lots of good knocks at 5 only to find the team short by 25-30 runs, like in this series

In this series, the top order was far from being conservative. Rahul got opportunity to play so many overs only because the top order was not conservative and lost their wickets before 20 overs or so. At least in this series, you cannot blame the top order for falling short as they did not consume many balls. 

 When the real top order is back, he will still get chances like in the SF vs NZ kinda scenarios. He will be greatly appreciated when he can make an impact in such matches. 

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

lets cheer for that man. would like that happening for sure.

will happen for sure....he is one of the best talent i have seen such a talent wont be quite for long. 

I remeber when KL came back a reporter asked him in PC what does he think about constantly being dropped or under pressure of loosing place and he said he stopped thinking about it after a time. 

 

May be going away from this TM for sometime will help pant also as of now this TM has made him feel unwanted 

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3 hours ago, Cricwala said:

these two should have been brought together at 4 & 5 right after CT final in  2017 - they were ready even back then. But Brat preferred wasting time with Rayudu, Karthik, Jadhav (Iyer can deliver equally as a bowler, just needs to be given the target & confidence). A poor run and who knows, there heads cld be on chopping block again

There's  a reason why Rayudu was given more chances than Rahul or Pandey or Iyer at #4.

 

Rayudu was never going to be a genuine threat to become the next poster boy for clothing and sneakers endorsements. 

Edited by sandeep
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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Important thing is they must be allowed to fail, give them a continuous run for min 40 matches in fixed positions since no big tournament in next 3 years. Allow them to experiment, explore, face different match situations: recovering from 20/3 or final flourish at 300/3, they will only learn with experience. Yuvi-MS didn't become that beastly duo overnight. 

Trio of Yuvi,Dhoni,Raina had the experience to take India from 50/3 to 320/330... these guys too can do that

 

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24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

There's  a reason why Rayudu was given more chances than Rahul or Pandey or Iyer at #4.

 

Rayudu was never going to be a genuine threat to become the next poster boy for clothing and sneakers endorsements. 

:(( that was also the reason he was disposed.

 

People appreciate the hot administrative secretary over the efficient motherly older secretary that gets the job done :((

 

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7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Have we finally nailed our middle order in ODIs? Keeping in mind that next WC will be in India and both have secondary skill....eager to see Iyer bowl. Should be in their prime age in 2023. 

 

Iyer:

- high tempo, 100+ SR for #4 is good esp with his 50 avg

- spin killer

- good temperament

- six hitter

- ability to find gaps

- survivor, even if he looks hopelessly out of his depth somehow manages to not give it away.....Steve Waugh had that quality, will help in high pressure KO matches 

- should thrive in Indian conditions

 

KLR:

- 360 game

- lesser the time to think, more effective he is

- if he is going to keep (more flexibility/balance to the XI) opening may be too tough on the body...so we extract the best out of him as #5/keeper. Many other excellent top order candidates as well

- consistent

- six hitter

- very good against pace

- explosive...tremendous potential is there, I mean the Butler/ABDV class once his inner beast awakens

- finally looks assured

 

Of course they can improve in some ways, like Iyer's handling of short-pitched stuff, conversion to 100s etc. For KL->better strike rotation against spinners, not getting stuck in first 10-15 balls, not throwing it away....these can be corrected with more experience. More they play together better will be their running between the wickets and maturity to close out the innings, finish matches. 

 

Find of this series for me, finally we have a MO that can be developed into a match winning machine. 

for the time being, I am satisfied with this order. however, ideally I would want gill at 3, kohli at 4 and KLR at 5 (wk) because pant has been dispensed with by TM. no. 6 would be hardik or if sarfaraz can sustain his run

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Looking good. If they're able to sustain this, I can see Indian team for 2023 like this -

 

Shaw

Rohit (back up Gill)

Brat

Iyer

Rahul (back up keeper)

Pant (WK)

Pandya

..

Kuldeep/Bishnoi/Sundar?

Rahul Chahar/Chahal

Saini

Bumrah

 

Batting backups - Gill, Jaiswal

Bowling backups - Prasidh, Tyagi

 

We need to really hunt for a couple of back up allrounders in the absence of Pandya - Dube is clearly not the answer

Edited by Sandeep99
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16 hours ago, jusarrived said:

I wanted Virat to drop down the order since Dhoni’s decline , think it would have helped the team lot more and most likely we would not have lost all the big ICC KO games , but at this point I prefer KL at 5 and Virat can stay at 3 . 
 

KL has an outside chance at greatness batting at 5 , if he has a good 4-5 years and wins us matches regularly imo . If he opens , he will just be another top order bat with inflated stats . I think he can end with 50+ avg and 100-110 sr , which will win us lot more matches than he could at the top .No specialist opener has ever dropped down the order and has been successful, would be great if KL can do that . 

Mike Hussey was a specialist opener, dropped down to 5-6.

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26 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Gollum

 

Why do you hyphenate the two?

KL is the bigger talent and can play in any position from 1-5. Shreyas Iyer is more in the finisher mould.

India should try the following order for a few games keeping the 2023 WC in mind

 

KL Rahul

Rohit

Shaw

Kohli

Iyer

Pant

Hyphenating the two because for many years our middle order has been inept , heartening to see that we are closer to a solution now. Too many top order candidates (Shaw, Mayank, Gill, Padikkal, Ishan....) but our middle order reserves are pretty underwhelming. These two will be valuable (stats won't capture that because of less opportunities to rack up 100s), help Team India's cause much more at 4-5...hope they can emulate prime Yuvi-MS. 

 

Agree KL is a scintillating talent. Sad to see him underachieving so much, I think he is like Gohan (DBZ character, or Hanuman if you don't follow Jap anime), lot of latent power. The day he unleashes his full potential Indian batting will power up to a whole new level, above England. 

Edited by Gollum
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