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SK_IH

What's ailing J Bumrah ?

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Ever since his comeback, he seems to be struggling to pick up wickets. In last particular test I thought he didn't find the right length for NZ at all. And it was shocking considering he has been in NZ for last 1 month and has played all matches but still struggling for right length.

In recent past he has given the body language of a man who thinks it is ok to go for 50 runs in 10 overs. 

Now coming back to the nub of the issue. What's ailing him? What do you all think? All bowling experts @rkt.india @express bowling @Mosher @Rightarmfast

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He does not pick wickets in a cluster,have build a reputation of being a difficult bowler for opposition bats,batsmen play him out without taking much risk ,he is neither a swing bowler to snatch wickets rather than batsmen giving him their wickets while going after him in initial overs when white ball does swing,he has decent variations,used to bowl yorkers with great control ,as an effort delivery he is refraining from those

To me he doesn't looks much motivated here either,maybe don't want to put pressure on his body for all important IPL coming up,i haven't seen him much in this tour ,if he is not running well,there maybe every chance of him carrying some kind of niggle,one cant rule out that

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8 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

He does not pick wickets in a cluster,have build a reputation of being a difficult bowler for opposition bats,batsmen play him out without taking much risk ,he is neither a swing bowler to snatch wickets rather than batsmen giving him their wickets while going after him in initial overs when white ball does swing,he has decent variations,used to bowl yorkers with great control ,as an effort delivery he is refraining from those

To me he doesn't looks much motivated here either,maybe don't want to put pressure on his body for all important IPL coming up,i haven't seen him much in this tour ,if he is not running well,there maybe every chance of him carrying some kind of niggle,one cant rule out that

If he is not fully fit, then its just idiotic that he is being rushed back. We have already seen things exacerbating with Bhuvi.

If he is motivated for IPL instead of intl ckt ( I don't think that's the reason), then God save Indian cricket.

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Am no bowling expert but he has clear been rushed from his injury. Needed at least 4-5 FC games, if not more, with 100-120 overs of bowling to get back to his rhythm for ODIs or Tests. Bowling 4 overs in T20s is no indication of being ready for Test match bowling.

 

In fact going by his speeds in the NZ 2nd innings today, I would not be surprised if he is declared unfit for the 2nd test. Better to rest than to risk another long term injury. His bowling potency was primarily due to a heavy shoulder thrust, with an injured back yet to heal fully, he clearly isn’t going all out like he earlier was.

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21 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

If he is not fully fit, then its just idiotic that he is being rushed back. We have already seen things exacerbating with Bhuvi.

If he is motivated for IPL instead of intl ckt ( I don't think that's the reason), then God save Indian cricket.

Thats a bitter truth ,plays for the most powerful , influential franchise,that is enough for people to take note of things

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Neither Bumrah nor Shami lost any pace. Their bowling style is not suitable here. You have to bowl a little slower and let the ball swing.  If you want blow the batsmen with pace you need to bowl at 150 clicks. In order to extract bounce they have to pitch very short as they are relatively shorter which often goes over the keeper. They are unable to get bounce from a good length like Ishant gets. Ishant is taller. Naturally he will get more bounce. Also they don't get movement as they bowl too fast and they are skiddier. You cannot get wickets that easily without movement.

Edited by vvvslaxman

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1 hour ago, SK_IH said:

Ever since his comeback, he seems to be struggling to pick up wickets. In last particular test I thought he didn't find the right length for NZ at all. And it was shocking considering he has been in NZ for last 1 month and has played all matches but still struggling for right length.

In recent past he has given the body language of a man who thinks it is ok to go for 50 runs in 10 overs. 

Now coming back to the nub of the issue. What's ailing him? What do you all think? All bowling experts @rkt.india @express bowling @Mosher @Rightarmfast

Did not see enough of his bowling in this match. But whatever I saw he is not getting the kind of zip he used to get and his pace down too in the 2nd innings. I think he was rushed back. 

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27 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Neither Bumrah nor Shami lost any pace. Their bowling style is not suitable here. You have to bowl a little slower and let the ball swing.  If you want blow the batsmen with pace you need to bowl at 150 clicks. In order to extract bounce they have to pitch very short as they are relatively shorter which often goes over the keeper. They are unable to get bounce from a good length like Ishant gets. Ishant is taller. Naturally he will get more bounce. Also they don't get movement as they bowl too fast and they are skiddier. You cannot get wickets that easily without movement.

Did you see Shami bowling in ODIs in NZ last year? Was bowling 144-145, and generating huge swing and seam, looked almost unplayable 

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not generating sufficient lateral movement with kookaburra ball. Among the three Ishant usually generates the most lateral movement with SG and Dukes and he managed to generate sufficient here as well. Bumrah had wrong length he did not york often did not bounce when he needed to etc , and Shami was a bit inaccurate. And i think their pace made them more hitable than NZ pacers who were taking pace off the ball. But one thing they could have tried doing is getting genuine pace when ever Bumrah tried that he created few chances but he did not sustain it.  

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18 minutes ago, Mosher said:

his pace down too in the 2nd innings. I think he was rushed back. 

i think he was trying pace off the ball, he produced 1 over that i saw all over 140 142 and created few chances and yorked etc but did not get wickets and went back to pace off ball. 

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3 minutes ago, Vilander said:

i think he was trying pace off the ball, he produced 1 over that i saw all over 140 142 and created few chances and yorked etc but did not get wickets and went back to pace off ball. 

Bumrah bowled a few 127-130k deliveries towards the end of 1st innings too and those were seam up deliveries. Then went back to bowing 137-138. So don't know what's happening with him man, but he is not getting the zip he used to get. 

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Just now, Mosher said:

Bumrah bowled a few 127-130k deliveries towards the end of 1st innings too and those were seam up deliveries. Then went back to bowing 137-138. So don't know what's happening with him man, but he is not getting the zip he used to get. 

kookaburra thats what happened. As always they needed some more tour games before 1st test.  

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1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Am no bowling expert but he has clear been rushed from his injury. Needed at least 4-5 FC games, if not more, with 100-120 overs of bowling to get back to his rhythm for ODIs or Tests. Bowling 4 overs in T20s is no indication of being ready for Test match bowling.

 

In fact going by his speeds in the NZ 2nd innings today, I would not be surprised if he is declared unfit for the 2nd test. Better to rest than to risk another long term injury. His bowling potency was primarily due to a heavy shoulder thrust, with an injured back yet to heal fully, he clearly isn’t going all out like he earlier was.

He had the option of playing for Gujarat in the Ranji trophy which was to be his comeback match. But the mandate from BCCI to reduce his workload meant that Gujarat looked elsewhere and he himself wanted to have the "smoother" SL t20s rather than the grind of 4 day cricket to prove his fitness. Add to that the decision of NCA to not perform his fitness test. It was shambolic all round.

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1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Did you see Shami bowling in ODIs in NZ last year? Was bowling 144-145, and generating huge swing and seam, looked almost unplayable 

Even here he was bowling at 140k more than any of the NZ bowler his average speed was higher. Difference was last time his inswinger was working to righties. This time he could hardly move.

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If you want to become a world class bowler you have to excel in variety of conditions. We saw how Rabada struggled with SG ball in India. Bit like that Bumrah is struggling in swinging conditions on a not so pacy pitch. His pace is ideal for playing shots.

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He didn't undergo back surgery. I suspect without surgery back injury might surface again. They had messed up Aron in 2012 when they had said he didn't need surgery but then eventually had vo through it. Was on sidelines for one and a half years due to that fiasco.

Edited by rkt.india

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1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

If you want to become a world class bowler you have to excel in variety of conditions. We saw how Rabada struggled with SG ball in India. Bit like that Bumrah is struggling in swinging conditions on a not so pacy pitch. His pace is ideal for playing shots.

Bumrah did fine in swinging conditions in England.  In fact, conditions were quite benign after day 1. Also, people are blaming bowlers for getting NZ out at 350 on a flat pitch. Batsmen are to be blamed. Needed to score at least 450 in second innings.

Edited by rkt.india

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12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bumrah did fine in swinging conditions in England.  In fact, conditions were quite benign after day 1. Also, people are blaming bowlers for getting NZ out at 350 on a flat pitch. Batsmen are to be blamed. Needed to score at least 450 in second innings.

tail scored far too many runs. There was mistake from bowlers as well and yes second inning batting was capitulation.

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16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bumrah did fine in swinging conditions in England.  In fact, conditions were quite benign after day 1. Also, people are blaming bowlers for getting NZ out at 350 on a flat pitch. Batsmen are to be blamed. Needed to score at least 450 in second innings.

But you don't use Kookaburra there for Tests

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18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He didn't undergo back surgery. I suspect without surgery back injury might surface again. They had messed up Aron in 2012 when they had said he didn't need surgery but then eventually had vo through it. Was on sidelines for one and a half years due to that fiasco.

He didn't look in any discomfort. He had wheels right through. His action also looked okay. May be there is something wrong uncocking his wrists.

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I think Bumrah is a bit wary of giving his 100% because he is returning from injury. And this is probably not a conscious decision either but is just happening.

 

Pace, zip off the deck and heaviness of ball ... all these factors have become inconsistent. Sometimes there and sometimes not.  Earlier, he was always hurrying the batsmen and making them jump.

 

He is moving the ball much less than his pre-injury days.

 

His length and line have become less aggressive. He is bowling shorter and more leg-sidish. Probably because he is moving the ball less.

 

In short, he has not got his rhythm back after injury. Could well be a mental thing ... that is being cautious about using his whole body due to his recent injury.

 

 


 

 

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11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

He didn't look in any discomfort. He had wheels right through. His action also looked okay. May be there is something wrong uncocking his wrists.

He didn't look in discomfort even in WI but turned out he played with back injury. 

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14 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Neither Bumrah nor Shami lost any pace. Their bowling style is not suitable here. You have to bowl a little slower and let the ball swing. 

 

Bumrah was bowling 140 kph to 150 kph consistently in tests in Australia in 2018-19 while bowling with the Kookabura ... but still getting consistent swing as well as seam movement. 

 

You don't have to bowl slower to get swing. Swing at pace actually results in late swing.

 

Quote

If you want blow the batsmen with pace you need to bowl at 150 clicks.

 

Bumrah can blow away the opposition with pace while bowling at 138 k to 148 k too.

 

Because of the zip off the deck, the heaviness of his balls, his closer release points and his deceptive action.

 

Quote

In order to extract bounce they have to pitch very short as they are relatively shorter which often goes over the keeper. They are unable to get bounce from a good length like Ishant gets. Ishant is taller. Naturally he will get more bounce. Also they don't get movement as they bowl too fast and they are skiddier. You cannot get wickets that easily without movement.

 

When Bumrah is bowling at a 100% then he gets good bounce off length. He keeps hitting the high part of the bat and makes batters jump 

 

This happens because of his high arm action, his unusually long limbs which result in a high release point for his height and his strong wrist action.

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16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He didn't look in discomfort even in WI but turned out he played with back injury. 

 

Bumrah's pace was sign8ficantly down in the first test in the WI ... because of which some of us kept pointing out that him carrying a niggle was possible.

 

In NZ, he is not bowling significantly slower than usual.

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8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah's pace was sign8ficantly down in the first test in the WI ... because of which some of us kept pointing out that him carrying a niggle was possible.

 

In NZ, he is not bowling significantly slower than usual.

He seems to have rushed in,he did well in t20s but didn't look focused after that,i think IPL is in his mind ,he thinks his place in the side is a given,he thinks he can sort out things in IPL,we can't deny players across globe have started prioritizing IPL over national duty,this is bitter but true

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah's pace was sign8ficantly down in the first test in the WI ... because of which some of us kept pointing out that him carrying a niggle was possible.

 

In NZ, he is not bowling significantly slower than usual.

He has been seen bowling 127-128.

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1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

He seems to have rushed in,he did well in t20s but didn't look focused after that,i think IPL is in his mind ,he thinks his place in the side is a given,he thinks he can sort out things in IPL,we can't deny players across globe have started prioritizing IPL over national duty,this is bitter but true

i really doubt bumrah takes his place for granted. He’s one of the most intelligent and hardworking cricketers we’ve ever had.

 

Most have pointed out lack of consistency which is something he will have to figure out on his own or TM. 

 

A county stint would be much more useful than smashing batsmen for fun in ranji

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18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He has been seen bowling 127-128.

It can happen to the best. Let’s cut him some slack. More concerning is lack of that top of off line that made him so dangerous with 3 modes of dismissal in play, and the swaying down leg side

Edited by bhakum20

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9 minutes ago, bhakum20 said:

i really doubt bumrah takes his place for granted. He’s one of the most intelligent and hardworking cricketers we’ve ever had.

 

Most have pointed out lack of consistency which is something he will have to figure out on his own or TM. 

 

A county stint would be much more useful than smashing batsmen for fun in ranji

Yes he is mainstay of this team,his place is secured and he deserves that as he has performed so well since his debut and has truly transformed our bowling attack,but the thing is he shouldn't be taking things for granted,maybe im wrong,but i haven't said something which is 'wrong',they shouldn't have rushed him in,he will surely play SA odis,i dont think Kohli will rest him ,our longer interest says otherwise,then he plays a nearly two month long IPL,im concerned,his injury may resurface

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14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Everyone is focusing on his erstwhile back injury.

 

But I think his wrist action and ball release has changed a bit during this time out of the game 

 

And this has affected his ball release, accuracy, movement and zip off the deck.

He bowled that incredible top of off stump line ball after ball  in West Indies moving it both ways.. hardly bowled that in the first test 

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10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Everyone is focusing on his erstwhile back injury.

 

But I think his wrist action and ball release has changed a bit during this time out of the game 

 

And this has affected his ball release, accuracy, movement and zip off the deck.

Thts the whole point. After being away for over 4 months due to that back injury, before he got himself back in rhythm, he was rushed to international cricket ad then played in useless LOIs without bowling in any competitive matches. As great a bowler as he is, expecting him to suddenly step up in high intensity int’l games was setting him up for failure. 
 

Should have been allowed to gradually return to international cricket.

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10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Everyone is focusing on his erstwhile back injury.

 

But I think his wrist action and ball release has changed a bit during this time out of the game 

 

And this has affected his ball release, accuracy, movement and zip off the deck.

Thts the whole point. After being away for over 4 months for that back injury, before he got himself back in rhythm, he was rushed to international cricket ad then played in useless LOIs without bowling in any competitive matches. As great a bowler as he is, expecting him to suddenly have the same old perfect action and step up in high intensity int’l games was setting him up for failure. 

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18 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Yes he is mainstay of this team,his place is secured and he deserves that as he has performed so well since his debut and has truly transformed our bowling attack,but the thing is he shouldn't be taking things for granted,maybe im wrong,but i haven't said something which is 'wrong',they shouldn't have rushed him in,he will surely play SA odis,i dont think Kohli will rest him ,our longer interest says otherwise,then he plays a nearly two month long IPL,im concerned,his injury may resurface

Aren’t bowlers better off bowling to try and get rhythm back than resting?

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