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TM might be morons but why arent youngsters grabbing their chances?


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We all know guys like Kohli and Shastri have a lot of flaws and their negative qualities in leadership and management far outweigh their positives if they have any.

 

However having said that shouldn't the youngsters grab every shot they get in what is a crowded space in the Indian talent pool?

 

Sachin never put a foot wrong since his debut.

 

Ganguly and Dravid too made an impact right from the start.  Ganguly well he had to wait for 4 years after his not so impressive debut and there was a lot of criticism on him in 1996 but he evolved beyond that and made a statement in a tough overseas tour. In fact they grabbed their chances and leap frogged ahead of guys like Kambli, Manjrekar, Amre, Jadeja  and a few other high profile names of that time.

 

Bumrah was considered to be a LOI specialist but from test 1, he started performing to become the no.1 bowler in the world across all formats.

 

Kohli too grabbed every opportunity he got in a very crowded space. In fact when all eyes were on Rohit Sharma and to some extent on Pujara and Rahane he leap frogged all of them to become what he became.

 

Rohit Sharma too probably got one last opportunity when he was made to open and even though I will admit he did get a lot of backing, he did finally make his last chance count in a big way.

 

Same goes for Dhawan who made an impact in his first test and his first ODI tournament.

 

There are plenty of such examples.

 

However among recent youngsters we don't see the same hunger. The only guy I can think of in recent times who broke the barrier is Rahul when he made an impressive comeback and cashed in every opportunity he got in any position that he wasn't comfortable in. The other guy who makes his case strong is Aggarwal.

 

Pandya is still a prospect with a great potential after playing for 4 years as a regular every time he is in the scheme of things. We still talk about oh that knock or cameo or that 1 spell but by now we should be 100% sure that Pandya will be slotted in and start winning games like we talk about Rohit, Kohli, Bumrah etc.

 

Pant too while obviously he has been mishandled, no one can deny that he has had enough opportunities where he could have stood up and made an impact and shut down all doubters. He has been in multiple situation where he could have finished the game or in tests were he could have uplifted the team with an outstanding knock. While we still say Pant has been destroyed etc, there should be a question for Pant as well as why he is not making the most of his chances. As the saying goes, life gives you lemons but you need to make a lemonade out of it.

 

Shaw had 7 consecutive innings in Nzl where he showed flashes of brilliance, there are more doubts about his place than before rather than him sealing the deal and making a statement. Same goes for Vihari who had 4 innings. While he did well in 1, was that good enough to have a guaranteed slot?

 

Saini has had 0 wickets in Nzl ODI's and he is still backed but isn't the onus on him to pick a few wickets in the next few opportunities even though he is able to hit 140+ regularly?

 

Karun Nair is a tragic case of Indian cricket and it is unfair for a guy to be dropped 3-4 games after a 300 but had he scored even a 100 in one of those games, would there even be a doubt of his inclusion?

 

This might come across as blaming the victim rather than the perpetrator but in a dog eat dog world and with so much competition around the onus lies on the young players to grab every shot they get. The current TM doesn't back youngsters and it is a toxic environment, no doubt but isn't that when true talent will shine through?

 

 

 

 

 

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Vijay Shankar is another guy. He came into contention when he kind of grabbed his chances and played a couple of cameo knocks in Nzl and vs Australia.

 

Once he was selected, he threw away a lot of chances in IPL and kind of brought a negative attention on himself. Had he carried over his momentum from those 2 knocks which were cameos at best to IPL , he wouldn't even be under a microscope in the WC. In the WC too he had a couple of situations where he could have played a long innings.

 

There are plenty of examples.

 

If Gill gets a run in 3 odis, he should hit 2 100's or a 150 or a man of the match performance or something.

 

impressive 30's or even 50's won't help him. While in a perfect world he should get an extended run based on his potential and his body of work that got him there, it still lies on him how he will make most of these opportunities.

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2 minutes ago, zen said:

What is the definition of success? 

1.Being indispensable due to consistent performances and match winning performances rather than being in the side because there are no alternatives.

 

2. Having a body of work including clutch match winning performances or back to the wall performances with bat or ball to have people sit up and take notice.

 

3. Having a short learning curve. Sachin, Bumrah, Kohli,Ganguly,Dravid plenty of such examples.

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10 minutes ago, maniac said:

1.Being indispensable due to consistent performances and match winning performances rather than being in the side because there are no alternatives.

 

2. Having a body of work including clutch match winning performances or back to the wall performances with bat or ball to have people sit up and take notice.

 

3. Having a short learning curve. Sachin, Bumrah, Kohli,Ganguly,Dravid plenty of such examples.

and these guys haven’t  done that? :hmmmm:

Edited by zen
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Most players take 5-6 years - Zak, Rohit, yuvraj are prime examples now add Rahul 

  • Kohli, dhoni , bumrah were few who were consistent from start 
  • Dhawan to struggled when he went Sa n NZ in year 2013 itself and then even in Aus 
  • Shami to has came into his own in last 2 yrs
  • Dravid to lost his place 
  • Pujara 1st cycle of overseas was completely failure 

Some will start well and decline , some will start late and do well but most of player become consistent after 5-6 years  that when a player understands his game . 

 

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31 minutes ago, maniac said:

Pandya is still a prospect with a great potential after playing for 4 years as a regular every time he is in the scheme of things. We still talk about oh that knock or cameo or that 1 spell but by now we should be 100% sure that Pandya will be slotted in and start winning games like we talk about Rohit, Kohli, Bumrah etc.

coz ppl look to much into stats

if yuvi, rohit wud have batted low as they were they wud have been only potential, they came into their own with batting promotion. 

Finding consistency with someone batting at 7 is laughable 

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33 minutes ago, maniac said:

Shaw had 7 consecutive innings in Nzl where he showed flashes of brilliance, there are more doubts about his place than before rather than him sealing the deal and making a statement. Same goes for Vihari who had 4 innings. While he did well in 1, was that good enough to have a guaranteed slot?

they did score 50s so not bad either.....u expected them to avg 50 when none of the indian batsman avg more then 25 in test series

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34 minutes ago, maniac said:

Saini has had 0 wickets in Nzl ODI's and he is still backed but isn't the onus on him to pick a few wickets in the next few opportunities even though he is able to hit 140+ regularly?

he isnt backed ...has been dropped for shardul again n again

n if someone like bumrah can go wkt less why not saini

 

U want them to be only successful thats not possible, failure is as important for any cricketer to grow 

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36 minutes ago, maniac said:

Rohit Sharma too probably got one last opportunity when he was made to open and even though I will admit he did get a lot of backing, he did finally make his last chance count in a big way.

so have same patience with these youngsters which in case of rohit was more then 80 Odis 

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37 minutes ago, maniac said:

Pant too while obviously he has been mishandled, no one can deny that he has had enough opportunities where he could have stood up and made an impact and shut down all doubters. He has been in multiple situation where he could have finished the game or in tests were he could have uplifted the team with an outstanding knock. While we still say Pant has been destroyed etc, there should be a question for Pant as well as why he is not making the most of his chances. As the saying goes, life gives you lemons but you need to make a lemonade out of it.

and the same guy has 2-100s overseas and how much chances ?? atleast let him play 50-60 ODIs or 35 test 

U think yuvraj singh was consistent ??? no he wasnt till 5-6th year 

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Just now, zen said:

and these guys haven’t  done that?

No.

 

There shouldn't even be a debate as to why Pant needs to go back to domestics or discuss flaws in his game. Even now we are talking about reasons why Pant should be backed rather than pulling up performances and saying, are you out of your mind to even suggest he should be dropped.

 

Pandya well at this point he gets a guaranteed slot because there is no other alternative. Just for argument sake let's say Saini starts picking up wickets in a bunch and then plays some cameos at the death, would we even think of Pandya as indispensable?

 

Had Pant or Pandya won us the semis or the match vs England, no one would even question their slots for the next 5 years. Pant has had opportunities at no.4 after a top order collapse where he could have made a 100 at least on 2-3 occasions. He had opportunities where he could have scored a 10* to get India over the line but he failed.

 

I am not limiting it to these guys but most youngsters that have played under this TM.

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15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

coz ppl look to much into stats

if yuvi, rohit wud have batted low as they were they wud have been only potential, they came into their own with batting promotion. 

Finding consistency with someone batting at 7 is laughable 

Trust me If Pandya would have won us the semis, he would have been hailed greater than Kapil Dev on this very forum who scored 175 vs Zimbabwe in a league game where as Pandya did it against a strong Nzl in semis.

 

Rohit played 2-3 clutch knocks in his first year. WT20 vs SA, Pak, CB Series

 

Kohli had a break out year vs SA 1-2 years after debut where he was the premier bat among some big names. Even before that he was scoring against every opponent in every chance he got.

 

Yuvraj 1-2 years after debut played that knock in Natwest and then WC vs Pak and not to forget his debut knock.

 

Raina debuted in 2007, Had a stellar IPL. 2-3 years after debut he had a T20 100 in a WC,Played clutch knocks in 2 WC games, Played a back to the wall knock vs Pak Asia cup

 

Where are the clutch knocks or spells from the current youngsters? Stop making excuses

Edited by maniac
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Just now, maniac said:

Trust me If Pandya would have won us the semis, he would have been hailed greater than Kapil Dev on this very forum who scored 175 vs Zimbabwe in a league game where as Pandya did it against a strong Nzl in semis.

did yuvi won u the final in Wc 2003 or 2007 Wc against SL that knocked us out ??

Did Rohit , dhawan won us semi in 2015 Wc 

 

 

Just now, maniac said:

Rohit played 2-3 clutch knocks in his first year. WT20 vs SA, Pak

Pandya played a clucth knock against Aus this Wc

He bowled the most clutch over against Bang in 2016Wc 

played a good knock in ct final.....cudnt alone have won it, u think india wud have won natwest had only yuvi scored ?

Just now, maniac said:

Kohli had a break out year vs SA 1-2 years after debut where he was the premier bat among some big names. Even before that he was scoring against every opponent in every chance he got.

Kohli , Kapil are once in a generation players 

Kohli contemporary like dhawan n rohit cant match him

Just now, maniac said:

Yuvraj 1-2 years after debut played that knock in Natwest and then WC vs Pak and not to forget his debut knock.

n wud he have won those games alone coz whole team scored check scorecard 

 

Just now, maniac said:

Raina debuted in 2007, Had a stellar IPL. 2-3 years after debut he had a T20 100 in a WC,Played clutch knocks in 2 WC games, Played a back to the wall knock vs Pak Asia cup

and pretty much soon lost it....high chance pandya will end with a better career

Just now, maniac said:

Where are the clutch knocks or spells from the current youngsters? Stop making excuses

clutch knock only look clutch when other in team perform. No one player of a team will ever win u a game 

So stop having bizaare expectation n study those clutch knock score card carefully

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8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Saini was the Man of the Series in the T20I series vs the WI.

 

Was dropped in the very next 3 T20I games.

 

Kuldeep took a 5 fer in the last test in Australia,. Doing that in a test in SENA is no joke for a spinner. Has not played s test since then.

 

Pant scored 2 centuries in the last 5 tests he played in the 2018-19 season. But was dropped for the 5 tests in the entire home season of 2019.

 

Nair was dropped in the very next test after scoring 303. And has played just 2 more tests in the next 40 months since then.

 

Vihari was the Man of the Series in tests in the WI. But Rahane was the default choice as the 5th batsman whenever we played 5 batters in the next 2 series. 

 

The policy of this team is clear.  A youngster will get chances only if an older player of similar profile is injured or unavailable. Current ability or form are not the considerations.

 

Whenever such things happen, youngsters are bound to lose confidence. 

 

 

I am not denying the TM and captain are inefficient. In a perfect world these guys should get backed, no one denies that. However I don't see any stand out knocks or spells by the crop. Just adequate performances. Having a toxic TM should give them more incentive to shine in match winning scenarios.

 

Pant 2 100's in Aus and Eng at this point have been reduced to a stat. They are incredible achievements no one is taking that away from him, however if he had scored even a 80 or a 100 in Nzl or even in Eng and Aus where the situation demanded a sedate 50, he didn't perform. Obviously not his fault entirely but there are not enough performances to call them out as match winners and it is not like they ever found them in such a scenario.

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9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Saini was the Man of the Series in the T20I series vs the WI.

 

Was dropped in the very next 3 T20I games.

 

Kuldeep took a 5 fer in the last test in Australia,. Doing that in a test in SENA is no joke for a spinner. Has not played s test since then.

 

Pant scored 2 centuries in the last 5 tests he played in the 2018-19 season. But was dropped for the 5 tests in the entire home season of 2019.

 

Nair was dropped in the very next test after scoring 303. And has played just 2 more tests in the next 40 months since then.

 

Vihari was the Man of the Series in tests in the WI. But Rahane was the default choice as the 5th batsman whenever we played 5 batters in the next 2 series. 

 

The policy of this team is clear.  A youngster will get chances only if an older player of similar profile is injured or unavailable. Current ability or form are not the considerations.

 

Whenever such things happen, youngsters are bound to lose confidence. 

 

 

Absolutely Those guys who performed haven't been given a proper run.  Kuldeep's 5fer in Aus was a big achievement for a spinner in his maiden inn in Aus where even Murali struggled.  Iyer after impressing vs SL in 2018 & SA Odis was dropped for no reason.  That saying Kuldeep needs to play Ist test in Aus this Aus summer or we got no chance. 

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