Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) WI: dominated us in India more than any other side, last 2 decades it is 8-0 in favor of India, before that 5-14 more than half of them being massive innings defeats They gave us plenty of when they had the Ws, Sobers, Kanhai... 1974-75 ATG series, best remembered for Vishy's HOF knocks and titanic tussle against Andy Roberts, Pataudi's captaincy, Viv's debut and Lloyd's ruthless ownage of our legendary spinners...we lost 2-3 Another memorable series was after the 1983 WC when we suffered their wrath We beat a Packer reject team in '79 and then had to wait till '02 to get our second series win over them....one way traffic since then Eng: Got many cheap victories in the 30s-early 50s Got plenty of thumpings but some major triumphs 1976-77 under Tony Greig beat us 3-1...John Lever vaseline incident one 1980 Golden Jubilee Test where Botham delivered possibly the GOAT AR performance, Vishy's sportsmanship too a reason for their win, they won by 10 wickets 1984-85 they won 2-1, Gatting scored close to 600 2012 another great English side dominated an out of sorts India; Cook, KP, Swann and Monty too good while we were in transition They troubled our great 2000s side as well despite being much weaker in SC condtions Aus: Struggled a lot in India....couldn't conquer us between 1969 series (Lawry's side, they won 3-1) and 2004 Some great contests but they couldn't finish us off, we were a bogey team for their ATG 90s-00s side, so many times they were stopped by us peaking out of nowhere....we had no business winning the 2001 series until VVS and Dravid went into God mode Dominated by us in 2008, '10, '13 and then finally a series for the ages in 2017 against one of the greatest home sides ever which they lost narrowly Pak: First time they won in '87 under Imran against a garbage Indian side...famous for Sunny's last test innings on a raging turner, drew 1-1 in '99 series before winning Asian Test Championship SF in Kolkata, stunned India in the 2005 series despite huge disparity in strength...we should have won easily, really a disgraceful surrender by us against the worst Pak bowling attack in history RSA: Played after their readmission, they won a test in their first series here in 96, built upon that to whitewash us in 2000, gave our 2000s team a lot of worries, best performance against Fab 5 side in India, 2 terrific drawn series in '08 and '10.....then they had to face a different beast in '15 and got crushed (end of their unbeaten overseas run), same story last year though this time they were a pale shadow of their past sides Edited April 23, 2020 by Gollum Link to comment
zen Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) WI in late 70s-80s .... Ind probably had no chance even on paper Edited April 23, 2020 by zen Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 Conflicted between WI and Eng. Even though Eng's W/L is nearly not that good they gave us more painful defeats, with WI those thrashings were along expected lines. Chose WI since topic is 'best'. Link to comment
maniac Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, zen said: WI in late 70s-80s .... Ind probably had no chance even on paper That’s what makes the 83 WC win such a big real life fairytale. I mean if any sporting story deserves a oscar level movie it would be this, unfortunately bollywood is going to crap all over it. Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 WI dominated us without spinner RSA almost won against our Fab 5 side cos of their quicks mainly Steyn, whitewashed us once without major role of spinner Eng dominated us in 70s and 80s mainly on the back of their swing bowlers Aus won in '04 cos of their fast bowling discipline, Warne was a minor player NZ won a test in '88 courtesy Hadlee Eng beat us in 2012 cos of Swann and Monty. Aus almost won '17 series but honestly their spinners lost steam after Che-Rahane partnership in Chinnaswamy. Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, zen said: WI in late 70s-80s .... Ind probably had no chance even on paper WI in a different league, still are 14-13 against us after sucking for more than 2 decades. If their full strength team had come in 1979 instead of Packer rejects the record would be lopsided...IMO their actual '79 side was even stronger than the one that came in '83. Link to comment
maniac Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Gollum said: WI dominated us without spinner RSA almost won against our Fab 5 side cos of their quicks mainly Steyn, whitewashed us once without major role of spinner Eng dominated us in 70s and 80s mainly on the back of their swing bowlers Aus won in '04 cos of their fast bowling discipline, Warne was a minor player NZ won a test in '88 courtesy Hadlee Eng beat us in 2012 cos of Swann and Monty. Aus almost won '17 series but honestly their spinners lost steam after Che-Rahane partnership in Chinnaswamy. The most embarrassing of them all was 2014, 1-0 up after 2 tests and then let Moeen Ali run through the batting line up. I am ok with greats like Broad- Anderson running through our line up or even Swann- Monty but getting owned by Moeen Ali is inexcusable. I know we are talking about home games but yes just had to rant on that bitter moment Edited April 23, 2020 by maniac Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Australia in the early noughties and the WI in 83 were the best of the lot. Followed by Smith and Cronje's S.A. sides in 2000 and 2010. Akram's Pak side in 1999 was pretty good especially when they replaced a declining Waqar with Shoaib. I can't think of a truly strong England side visiting here. They have mostly beaten us when we were **** or in transition. Their 2012 side for instance was whitewashed 3-0 in UAE. Overall though it has to be West Indies since we couldn't beat a full strength West Indies side at home until 2002 (and even that might not count as that side didn't include Lara). Link to comment
maniac Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Question though would WI be as effective with the new bouncer rules? I think it’s natural length for the WI fast bowlers, Once in a while they find the zone even now. We saw how they used the short ball against us in the 2010 WT20. They absolutely routed Pakistan with the same strategy in the 2019 WC, we saw Fidel Edwards almost ending Virat Kohli’s early Test career with his short bowling. That’s why it’s important to judge a player across eras and his longevity . Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Fair to say the 2001 Border Gavaskar Trophy is the only time we've beaten a truly great side in a Test series (home or away)? Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Their 2012 side for instance was whitewashed 3-0 in UAE. Pakistan has been their bogey side for quite a while, also Chuckmal was ridiculous that series. English commentators were calling him out live on air and we all know about their special love for poyzzz. Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Fair to say the 2001 Border Gavaskar Trophy is the only time we've beaten a truly great side in a Test series (home or away)? I have mixed feelings about 2001 BG. Great memories but Harbhajan was doing javelin throw for the entirety of the series. Cricket is a fairer sport now. Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Gollum said: Pakistan has been their bogey side for quite a while, also Chuckmal was ridiculous that series. English commentators were calling him out live on air and we all know about their special love for poyzzz. Yeah he really pulled out all the stops with his teesra and other shot put deliveries in that series . Gollum 1 Link to comment
zen Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, maniac said: Question though would WI be as effective with the new bouncer rules? I think it’s natural length for the WI fast bowlers, Once in a while they find the zone even now. We saw how they used the short ball against us in the 2010 WT20. They absolutely routed Pakistan with the same strategy in the 2019 WC, we saw Fidel Edwards almost ending Virat Kohli’s early Test career with his short bowling. That’s why it’s important to judge a player across eras and his longevity . Your post sounds like this - "Neetu Singh was a lead actress in 70s. She was chubby. Today, actresses are slim. Would Neetu SIngh be a lead actress today?" (Or "Akshay Kumar has worked in more films than Dilip Kumar. So Akshay Kumar is better as he has more films") For many, this is not even an issue as if Neetu Singh acted in this era, she would as fit as today's leading actresses. Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Overall though it has to be West Indies since we couldn't beat a full strength West Indies side at home until 2002 (and even that might not count as that side didn't include Lara). Yup, that clinches it. All our victories over them have been cheapos. Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment
maniac Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, zen said: Your post sounds like this - "Neetu Singh was a lead actress in 70s. She was chubby. Today, actresses are slim. Would Neetu SIngh be a lead actress today?" (Or "Akshay Kumar has worked in more films than Dilip Kumar. So Akshay Kumar is better as he has more films") For many, this is not even an issue as if Neetu Singh acted in this era, she would as fit as today's leading actresses. Exactly my point. Dilip Kumar is a great actor because he kept himself relevant for over 5 decades by adapting and reinventing himself. Neetu Singh was a star in the 70s but is she in the same league as Sridevi who ruled over Indian cinema (south + Bollywood) for 3 decades because her hit rate might have been more in the decade she was relevant? Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, Gollum said: I have mixed feelings about 2001 BG. Great memories but Harbhajan was doing javelin throw for the entirety of the series. Cricket is a fairer sport now. Was he really that bad? Doosra itna toh use nahin kiya tha IIRC. Real McCoy 1 Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Gollum said: Yup, that clinches it. All our victories over them have been cheapos. In some ways the 2-3 result in 1974-75 is our best result at home against them. Link to comment
zen Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, maniac said: Exactly my point. Dilip Kumar is a great actor because he kept himself relevant for over 5 decades by adapting and reinventing himself. Neetu Singh was a star in the 70s but is she in the same league as Sridevi who ruled over Indian cinema (south + Bollywood) for 3 decades because her hit rate might have been more in the decade she was relevant? You try to present as if they will not work or are not as good as Akshay Kumar (acted in more films) or some other function (Neetu SIngh who is chubby. Sridevi was chubby too relatively compared to today's actresses) Edited April 23, 2020 by zen Link to comment
Gollum Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: In some ways the 2-3 result in 1974-75 is our best result at home against them. Would have been 2-2 but that final test had a 6th day...we hung on till tea of day 6 and then lost Great series though, specially remembered for Vishy's genius. Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment
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