Ankit_sharma03 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Indian team in england post 2007 tour has been disaster to say the least . Our next test series in england is in 2021, with anderson on his last leg, root struggling with captaincy and an inexperienced England batting lineup this might be a good chance. A huge reason ofcourse is our batting R Dravid 2011-2011 4 8 2 461 146* 76.83 965 47.77 3 0 0 64 0 V Kohli 2014-2018 10 20 0 727 149 36.35 1313 55.36 2 3 3 82 1 SR Tendulkar 2011-2011 4 8 0 273 91 34.12 520 52.50 0 2 0 41 0 MS Dhoni 2011-2014 9 18 1 569 82 33.47 1115 51.03 0 6 2 81 5 RA Jadeja 2014-2018 5 10 1 276 86* 30.66 499 55.31 0 2 1 38 3 M Vijay 2014-2018 7 14 0 428 146 30.57 1129 37.90 1 2 3 60 2 KL Rahul 2018-2018 5 10 0 299 149 29.90 450 66.44 1 0 1 44 1 CA Pujara 2014-2018 9 18 1 500 132* 29.41 1236 40.45 1 2 2 65 0 AM Rahane 2014-2018 10 20 1 556 103 29.26 1229 45.24 1 4 2 67 1 B Kumar 2014-2014 5 10 1 247 63* 27.44 517 47.77 0 3 2 38 0 RR Pant 2018-2018 3 6 0 162 114 27.00 252 64.28 1 0 1 20 6 R Ashwin 2014-2018 6 12 3 232 46* 25.77 301 77.07 0 0 0 29 3 STR Binny 2014-2014 3 6 1 118 78 23.60 211 55.92 0 1 1 13 1 HH Pandya 2018-2018 4 8 1 164 52* 23.42 288 56.94 0 1 1 26 1 VVS Laxman 2011-2011 4 8 0 182 56 22.75 379 48.02 0 2 0 31 0 S Dhawan 2014-2018 7 14 0 284 44 20.28 503 56.46 0 0 0 41 0 P Kumar 2011-2011 3 6 0 110 40 18.33 105 104.76 0 0 1 16 4 SK Raina 2011-2011 4 8 0 105 78 13.12 252 41.66 0 1 3 14 0 G Gambhir 2011-2014 5 10 0 127 38 12.70 377 33.68 0 0 1 16 0 As @Gollum asked how come every team looks better then us in england. Well just an observation- They look to have batsman who are grinding well Here is a list of Visting batsman who have done well in england in last 10 years Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s MN Samuels (WI) 2012-2012 3 5 1 386 117 96.50 791 48.79 1 3 0 51 3 TM Dilshan (SL) 2011-2011 2 3 0 253 193 84.33 357 70.86 1 1 0 29 2 S Chanderpaul (WI) 2012-2012 2 4 1 235 91 78.33 526 44.67 0 2 0 33 0 R Dravid (INDIA) 2011-2011 4 8 2 461 146* 76.83 965 47.77 3 0 0 64 0 SD Hope (WI) 2017-2020 4 7 2 378 147 75.60 744 50.80 2 1 0 56 0 HM Amla (SA) 2012-2017 7 13 1 811 311* 67.58 1455 55.73 2 3 0 102 3 Tamim Iqbal (BDESH) 2010-2010 2 4 0 268 108 67.00 278 96.40 2 1 0 34 3 JH Kallis (SA) 2012-2012 3 5 1 262 182* 65.50 455 57.58 1 0 0 34 2 SPD Smith (AUS) 2013-2019 14 26 1 1627 215 65.08 2680 60.70 6 6 0 194 13 AN Petersen (SA) 2012-2012 3 5 1 244 182 61.00 521 46.83 1 0 1 33 0 L Ronchi (NZ) 2015-2015 1 2 0 119 88 59.50 93 127.95 0 1 0 16 4 BJ Watling (NZ) 2013-2015 3 6 1 284 120 56.80 487 58.31 1 2 0 42 1 Sami Aslam (PAK) 2016-2016 2 4 1 167 82 55.66 403 41.43 0 2 0 22 1 GC Smith (SA) 2012-2012 3 5 0 272 131 54.40 575 47.30 1 2 0 32 0 KC Sangakkara (SL) 2011-2014 5 10 0 526 147 52.60 1099 47.86 2 3 0 64 0 MD Craig (NZ) 2015-2015 2 4 2 103 58* 51.50 166 62.04 0 1 1 14 2 KC Brathwaite (WI) 2017-2020 4 7 1 303 134 50.50 625 48.48 1 1 1 39 2 TT Samaraweera (SL) 2011-2011 3 6 2 202 87* 50.50 395 51.13 0 2 1 23 0 M Labuschagne (AUS) 2019-2019 4 7 0 353 80 50.42 692 51.01 0 4 0 49 0 CJL Rogers (AUS) 2013-2015 10 18 1 847 173 49.82 1645 51.48 2 5 1 124 1 Younis Khan (PAK) 2016-2016 4 7 0 340 218 48.57 652 52.14 1 0 0 45 4 AD Mathews (SL) 2014-2016 5 9 0 431 160 47.88 741 58.16 2 1 0 57 3 Apart from Dravid not a single indian batsman who avg above 45 Most of them in list play late , grind it out Grinders- Chanderpaul, dravid, steve smith, grame smith , mathews, hope, younis Who play late- Amla, dravid, sanga, Now If we look at our batting unit Openers- Shaw, mayank, Rohit, Rahul , Gill (all stroke players Middle order- Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Vihari, Gill, Rahul, Pant (apart from pujara all stroke players) They have to plan it out - i think azhar and ganguly did pretty well in england and both were stroke players , in their favour they played late. Lets see the kind of bowlers that are doing well , even though bowling is least of our problems - Criteria atleast 3 matches played, cut off avg 35 Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 MR Marsh (AUS) 2015-2019 4 8 73.3 18 235 15 5/46 7/86 15.66 3.19 29.4 1 0 KS Williamson (NZ) 2013-2015 4 7 54.3 9 167 9 3/15 4/117 18.55 3.06 36.3 0 0 RJ Harris (AUS) 2013-2013 4 8 162.1 37 470 24 7/117 9/187 19.58 2.89 40.5 2 0 PJ Cummins (AUS) 2019-2019 5 10 211.0 61 569 29 4/32 7/103 19.62 2.69 43.6 0 0 TA Boult (NZ) 2013-2015 4 8 182.0 43 486 21 5/57 9/164 23.14 2.67 52.0 2 0 VD Philander (SA) 2012-2017 6 12 200.5 52 518 22 5/30 7/78 23.54 2.57 54.7 1 0 JR Hazlewood (AUS) 2015-2019 8 15 273.2 61 849 36 5/30 9/115 23.58 3.10 45.5 1 0 HH Pandya (INDIA) 2018-2018 4 6 64.1 7 247 10 5/28 6/50 24.70 3.84 38.5 1 0 JO Holder (WI) 2017-2020 4 6 118.2 27 355 14 6/42 6/42 25.35 3.00 50.7 1 0 JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 2018-2018 3 6 133.2 31 363 14 5/85 7/122 25.92 2.72 57.1 1 0 Mohammad Amir (PAK) 2010-2018 10 18 350.4 74 1007 38 6/84 6/84 26.50 2.87 55.3 2 0 B Kumar (INDIA) 2014-2014 5 7 172.5 45 506 19 6/82 6/103 26.63 2.92 54.5 2 0 ST Gabriel (WI) 2012-2020 4 7 105.0 14 410 15 4/51 6/176 27.33 3.90 42.0 0 0 SPD Smith (AUS) 2013-2019 14 10 39.0 5 137 5 3/18 4/83 27.40 3.51 46.8 0 0 K Rabada (SA) 2017-2017 3 6 135.0 28 455 16 4/91 6/141 28.43 3.37 50.6 0 0 DW Steyn (SA) 2012-2012 3 6 131.0 30 438 15 5/56 7/155 29.20 3.34 52.4 1 0 M Morkel (SA) 2012-2017 7 14 287.2 58 881 30 4/41 7/179 29.36 3.06 57.4 0 0 Saeed Ajmal (PAK) 2010-2010 3 5 125.1 19 353 12 5/82 5/103 29.41 2.82 62.5 1 0 P Kumar (INDIA) 2011-2011 3 5 158.3 38 443 15 5/106 7/169 29.53 2.79 63.4 1 0 PM Siddle (AUS) 2013-2019 9 18 324.3 90 899 30 5/50 8/135 29.96 2.77 64.9 1 0 MN Samuels (WI) 2012-2012 3 5 45.3 5 150 5 2/14 3/32 30.00 3.29 54.6 0 0 KA Maharaj (SA) 2017-2017 4 8 162.4 29 516 17 4/85 6/63 30.35 3.17 57.4 0 0 MA Starc (AUS) 2013-2019 9 17 300.2 56 1032 33 6/111 7/174 31.27 3.43 54.6 2 0 TG Southee (NZ) 2013-2015 4 8 194.2 39 627 20 6/50 10/108 31.35 3.22 58.3 1 1 NM Lyon (AUS) 2013-2019 13 25 497.5 99 1423 45 6/49 9/161 31.62 2.85 66.3 1 0 M Vijay (INDIA) 2014-2018 7 4 10.0 1 32 1 1/12 1/23 32.00 3.20 60.0 0 0 Wahab Riaz (PAK) 2010-2016 5 8 142.1 14 555 17 5/63 6/103 32.64 3.90 50.1 1 0 R Ashwin (INDIA) 2014-2018 6 9 175.1 33 461 14 4/62 7/121 32.92 2.63 75.0 0 0 Mohammad Asif (PAK) 2010-2010 4 7 135.0 33 404 12 5/77 6/133 33.66 2.99 67.5 1 0 KAJ Roach (WI) 2012-2020 6 10 183.5 39 643 19 5/72 6/168 33.84 3.49 58.0 1 0 I Sharma (INDIA) 2011-2018 12 19 439.3 91 1458 43 7/74 7/135 33.90 3.31 61.3 2 0 MG Johnson (AUS) 2015-2015 5 9 140.1 29 524 15 3/21 6/80 34.93 3.73 56.0 0 0 N Pradeep (SL) 2014-2016 5 9 173.0 31 621 16 4/107 5/141 38.81 3.58 64.8 0 0 Surprised to see Mitch marsh at top 3 all rounder in the List - @Khota Only 4 spinners - Ajmal, Maharaj, Lyon, Ashwin (no leggie another surprise as pommies hate them most) + williamson part timer From Indian team- Player Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 HH Pandya 2018-2018 4 6 64.1 7 247 10 5/28 6/50 24.70 3.84 38.5 1 0 JJ Bumrah 2018-2018 3 6 133.2 31 363 14 5/85 7/122 25.92 2.72 57.1 1 0 B Kumar 2014-2014 5 7 172.5 45 506 19 6/82 6/103 26.63 2.92 54.5 2 0 P Kumar 2011-2011 3 5 158.3 38 443 15 5/106 7/169 29.53 2.79 63.4 1 0 M Vijay 2014-2018 7 4 10.0 1 32 1 1/12 1/23 32.00 3.20 60.0 0 0 R Ashwin 2014-2018 6 9 175.1 33 461 14 4/62 7/121 32.92 2.63 75.0 0 0 I Sharma 2011-2018 12 19 439.3 91 1458 43 7/74 7/135 33.90 3.31 61.3 2 0 RA Jadeja 2014-2018 5 8 233.0 28 678 16 4/79 7/258 42.37 2.90 87.3 0 0 Mohammed Shami 2014-2018 8 14 268.4 40 988 21 4/57 6/108 47.04 3.67 76.7 0 0 Guess who is the topper - Hardik pandya in avg and s/r ...even in eco . On a serious note what hardik did right was he bowled wide of the crease and he naturally has a good outswinger . Holder in todays spell also used wide of crease angle . Shami avg, eco is terrible Shami, jadeja, ashwin s/r is 70+ Pk n BK in list is answer that we shud look at Deepak chahar for sure Ashwin avg of 32 aint bad as much a flak he gets And umesh yadav has warmed the bench I wont get into form n fitness of current squad as who knws about that aspect next year. Anyone can get unfit any time. Anyone can strike purple patch or hit rock bottom anytime. But things that can be kept in mind. Stop carrying 3 spinners in england, rather take 6 fast bowlers. Carry someone like vijay shankar who is a solid bat and his dibbly dobblies can be lethal on a soggy day. End this nonsense of taking umesh yadav on home series numbers Take someone like deepak chahar- swings the ball, puts it in right area and can bat as well. Ill honestly take him over saini, siraj in england. Look at ankit rajpoot who bowls a great outswing. Make sure to take Shubhman gill as he plays a lil late which is always good in england Rohit sharma can be the card who can flip any side- He is another guy who plays late and i havent seen him in that much trouble against anderson also archer and wood are kind of bowler he wud enjoy . But but but duke balls , english weather and woakes, broad, curran can be his nemsis . Edited July 9, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 G_B_, Gollum, Stan AF and 2 others 5 Link to comment
sandeep Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Dont get Bhuvi, Bumrah injured. or Ash for that matter. Don't drop batsmen of the class of Pujara, for the likes of Dhawan. Gollum 1 Link to comment
G_B_ Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Honestly, just drop kohli as captain and get rid of shastri nevada, sandeep, SK_IH and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, G_B_ said: Honestly, just drop kohli as captain and get rid of shastri there is no option for captaincy in test cricket Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 This guy needs to be looked at serious as he gets that huge away curve swing and has pace as well . He is doing that with SG, with duke he ll be more lethal Mosher, nevada and Hell Raiser 3 Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Sachin has almost same average as Dhoni That being said Dravid > Sachin anyday. Link to comment
Gollum Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) Our batsmen are **** against swing bowling, as a unit worst in the world. In the 90s and 00s we had some awesome batsmen against swing, even guys like Azhar/Dravid/Dada found seam/bounce difficult to handle but were gun against swing. Only VVS struggled against movement in the air. This team, different story. Our team is garbage in 4th innings run chases, I even opened a thread with relevant stats about the same a year ago...our batting avg (individual) in 4th innings outside India is 16-17, bottom position. Same maharathis couldn't chase 170 in Lanka in 2015, string of failures in the overseas cycle....anything above 150 target and we are toast, look at the Lankans who are a much weaker batting unit but have bigger balls. I won't fault batsmen if they falter in 250+ chases but our maharathis make a 170 target look like WR chase. Bowlers can only do so much, in India they can ensure things are dusted by the time we bat in 4th innings, either innings win or a sub-100 target. But in SENA batsmen must step up. Catching, don't know the numbers but am willing to wager that we must have dropped at least 40 catches in the last 10 tests there, unacceptable. In 2018 1st test target would have been under 100 had Dhawan not done his chewtiyapa at 2nd slip...we might still have failed to chase 90 odd but horrendous slip catching made things so much more difficult for us. There are other reasons like selection, TM, injuries, scheduling (with red ball warmups, not T20/T50 BS), toss result, psychology etc. Edited July 10, 2020 by Gollum sandeep, zaqw222222, LordPrabhzy and 2 others 5 Link to comment
sandeep Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 16 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: there is no option for captaincy in test cricket Rahane insisted on playing Kuldeep and won the deciding test against Aus. Link to comment
Norman Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Kidnap Sam curran ahead of the series. Stan AF and saik 2 Link to comment
Gollum Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, Norman said: Kidnap Sam curran ahead of the series. I understand that you are joking, my post isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just making a general point. Mentioning Sam Curran as a reason is just a distraction, solution always lies within. Great teams aspire to raise their level and beat opponents at full strength, not hope for standard to come down. NZ had that rookie Jamieson...SENA teams in their home conditions have enough backup options just like we do on our pitches. If not Curran someone else might have stepped up. Norman 1 Link to comment
Gollum Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I worry that we have developed a mental block against them in tests (that virus may soon spread to white ball formats ), who knows what would have happened had we lost the Rajkot test in 2016? Flat pitch, we had to bat 2 sessions to save the game, yet you could see the psychological scars, the fear in our camp before Kohli and Ash calmed the nerves with a match saving partnership. We won the next 4 because we were unstoppable, never gave a chance for those scars to open up, meaning we took control of the match early on and maintained the pressure, helped that most of our players were fit and in top form. Now we can't do that outside India, we aren't an ATG team so most matches will be on the edge and it will take mental fortitude to win. In each of our last 3 tours to Eng there were points where we were slightly ahead in the game but then simply wilted not because of lack of skills but because we lacked self-belief. This team needs a mental conditioning coach and BCCI has enough $$$ to make it happen, almost all teams across sports disciplines employ such specialists to help in the psychological department. Link to comment
Gollum Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) Watching tests in Eng is torture, they somehow always manage to * up against Pak, if Eng wins against the others I can't stand Sky team's gloating, if they are't doing well I just think about how we managed to make clowns out of ourselves the last decade over there. For me next year's Eng tour is bigger than the 2023 WC, a decade of humiliation must be avenged. Edited July 10, 2020 by Gollum Laaloo and nevada 2 Link to comment
Stan AF Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 The caliber of Tendulkar/Dravid and Ganguly who used to score runs for fun in England is just not there anymore among Indian test batsmen. The generation before we had Azharuddin and Vengsarkar who were just too good. Just face it we don't produce elite level test batters anymore. nevada 1 Link to comment
Clarke Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Play batsmen willing to fight it out instead of the flat track odi strokemakers opening the batting. How idiotic are the selectors & management! Give due importance to consistent swing/seam bowlers who will win you matches in those conditions. Lastly, catches win matches. Gollum 1 Link to comment
Stan AF Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 A 38 year old Tendulkar who should have retired is just 2 points below average than supposed to be in his prime Kohli. That right there says it all. Rightarmfast and Ankit_sharma03 1 1 Link to comment
Stan AF Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Kohli losing 5 tosses in a row and calling head(or was it tail??) every single time is another reason for our failures. How dickheaded/stubborn is that fellow? Gollum and Rightarmfast 2 Link to comment
Norman Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 We have to adopt a horses for courses strategy for Tests in NZ and England. A Deepak chahar or even a Sandeep Sharma (not kidding) are more likely to do the job in those conditions than a Shami or Umesh. And as others mentioned ,take the goddamn catches. saik, Clarke, Stan AF and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Gollum Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stan AF said: The caliber of Tendulkar/Dravid and Ganguly who used to score runs for fun in England is just not there anymore among Indian test batsmen. The generation before we had Azharuddin and Vengsarkar who were just too good. Just face it we don't produce elite level test batters anymore. From Ankit's stats table our maharathis are underperforming compared to batters from SL, Pak, BD, WI, Aus, RSA, NZ...the only Indian on that list is Dravid who retired before 70% of the current team debuted Don't just compare our boys with our former greats, why are we struggling compared to WI, Pak and SL batsmen? I don't think our batting has fallen that low !!!! Link to comment
Norman Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) A random fact .... We haven't won a series in England since the arrival of IPL. Perhaps a change in mentality for the batsmen. Edited July 10, 2020 by Norman Link to comment
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