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MS Dhoni didn’t give enough quality players to Virat Kohli, like Sourav Ganguly gave to India’: Gautam Gambhir

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“When MS Dhoni finished [his captaincy stint], he hasn’t given enough quality players to Virat Kohli, apart from Virat Kohli himself and Rohit Sharma, or Jasprit Bumrah now. There are not too many world-beaters or probably people who win you tournaments,” Gambhir was quoted as saying by ESPNcricinfo.

“But look at what Sourav Ganguly gave to Indian cricket: Yuvraj Singh, Man of the Series in two World Cups [Yuvraj was only Man of the Series in the 2011 World Cup; Shahid Afridi was Man of the Series in the 2007 World T20], Harbhajan Singh, Zaheer Khan, Virender Sehwag - these kinds of world-beaters,” he added.

Ganguly captained India to 21 wins in 49 Tests while winning the NatWest Series in 2002 and making it to the final of the 2003 World Cup.

 

Link - https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/ms-dhoni-didn-t-give-enough-quality-players-to-virat-kohli-like-sourav-ganguly-gave-to-india-gautam-gambhir/story-fcmMl1GSSQ6KEeUNythwDJ.html

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“When MS Dhoni finished [his captaincy stint], he hasn’t given enough quality players to Virat Kohli, apart from Virat Kohli himself and Rohit Sharma, or Jasprit Bumrah now. There are not too many world-beaters or probably people who win you tournaments,” Gambhir was quoted as saying by ESPNcricinfo.

“But look at what Sourav Ganguly gave to Indian cricket: Yuvraj Singh, Man of the Series in two World Cups [Yuvraj was only Man of the Series in the 2011 World Cup; Shahid Afridi was Man of the Series in the 2007 World T20], Harbhajan Singh, Zaheer Khan, Virender Sehwag - these kinds of world-beaters,” he added.

Ganguly captained India to 21 wins in 49 Tests while winning the NatWest Series in 2002 and making it to the final of the 2003 World Cup.

 

Link - https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/ms-dhoni-didn-t-give-enough-quality-players-to-virat-kohli-like-sourav-ganguly-gave-to-india-gautam-gambhir/story-fcmMl1GSSQ6KEeUNythwDJ.html

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Players ganguly gave to dhoni (in which Dravid captaincy had huge role)

  1. Yuvi
  2. Zak
  3. Bhajji
  4. Sehwag 
  5. Laxman(even though debut under diff captain but found his feet under ganguly)
  6. Irfan (somewhat in early part of the career)
  7. Nehra (played his part in dhoni' captaincy)

 

Player that dhoni gave to kohli 

  1. Dhawan
  2. Rohit
  3. Kohli 
  4. Rahane
  5. Pujara
  6. Vijay 
  7. Hardik
  8. Ashwin
  9. Jadeja
  10. Shami
  11. Bhuvi 
  12. KL (debut under MS, Played and scored 100 at 4 in t20 under MS ....wud have been settled under dhoni but wasnt the case under Kohli)
  13. Ishant (debut under diff captain but had massive backing of dhoni in his tough time)
  14. Umesh 
  15. Jadhav ( even he kept playing under kohli, kohli cudnt find his replacement to)
  16. Rayudu ( highly avg but still kohli cudnt look beyond him)
  17. Deepak chahar ( who is doing well in t20s is also a dhoni's CSK product)

 

What the hell is gambo smoking 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Before kohli also Dhoni gave Gambhir n Raina a permanent spot by removing guys like ganguly and dravid 

 

Gautam Gambhir before CB series 2008

Match 37

Runs 1043

Avg. 30.67

Sr 75.14

Yep, its just sad that Gambhir did not include himself in the list of players Dhoni backed during his captaincy. I don't know what's the tiff between the two but the mind always goes back to 2008 tri series in Aus when Dhoni was absolutely thrilled at Gambhir's 100, a kind of reaction we have not seen from Dhoni often. Ironically first time I saw Dhoni playing, was during a big partnership with Gambhir in Nairobi.

Gambhir was big part of Dhoni's plans in LOIs and before that he was irregular in the side.

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1 minute ago, SK_IH said:

Yep, its just sad that Gambhir did not include himself in the list of players Dhoni backed during his captaincy. I don't know what's the tiff between the two but the mind always goes back to 2008 tri series in Aus when Dhoni was absolutely thrilled at Gambhir's 100, a kind of reaction we have not seen from Dhoni often. Ironically first time I saw Dhoni playing, was during a big partnership with Gambhir in Nairobi.

Gambhir was big part of Dhoni's plans in LOIs and before that he was irregular in the side.

Sad to see guys like bhajji n gambhir so bitter, I expected sehwag to do so but he has been the opposite. Never saw laxman , dravid n kumble being bitter with ganguly. Im sure dhoni as captain wud have also had his problem with these players but he keeps away from saying anything against any of them. 

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1 minute ago, SK_IH said:

I think the more prudent way of putting things would be King Kohli has not backed any young player during his term as captain and instead derailed careers. Four years is a long enough time and he has done zilch in terms of team building.

yup i cant think of another name apart from Chahal that has had a proper backing of kohli. 

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Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Sad to see guys like bhajji n gambhir so bitter, I expected sehwag to do so but he has been the opposite. Never saw laxman , dravid n kumble being bitter with ganguly. Im sure dhoni as captain wud have also had his problem with these players but he keeps away from saying anything against any of them. 

True and you can add Yuvi to the list as well. Only Zak seems to be the sane member of that gang, others are quite delusional.

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25 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Players ganguly gave to dhoni (in which Dravid captaincy had huge role)

  1. Yuvi
  2. Zak
  3. Bhajji
  4. Sehwag 
  5. Laxman(even though debut under diff captain but found his feet under ganguly)
  6. Irfan (somewhat in early part of the career)
  7. Nehra (played his part in dhoni' captaincy)

Also ganguly didnt alone had a role in these players growth , Dravid-chappell had massive roles

 

  1. Yuvi - was highly inconsistent and wasted at 6,7 under ganguly till chappell n dravid booted ganguly n made a slot to push yuvi up. 
  2. Dhoni- Was made to bat all over the order which helped him becoming versatile and good in all situations. Chappell identified him as captain.
  3. Irfan- explored his batting
  4. Zak- got a kick , went to county and worked hard on his fitness and that when he became what he was. Under ganguly it was a cycle of injury- not proper recovery- comebacks-injury 

 

 

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Ganguly with his set of player cudnt win tournament, dhoni did 

Kohli cudnt win Asia cup with dhoni set of player

Rohit won Asia cup, nidhas with Kohli's set of players which he himself cant win a tournament with 

 

To win tournament captain needs to control nerves which is what keeps everyone calm, if he cant everyone will panic and hence disaster 

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People overlook Dravid's captaincy tenure just cos of that WC exit, forgetting our overseas test success and other improvements. It was the Dravid-Chappell duo that actively developed a pace unit to compete overseas perhaps for the first time in Indian cricket history, it was that duo which exorcised our chasing fears by choosing to test ourselves by electing to field first in bilaterals irrespective of conditions. We won the QF and F of 2011 WC chasing, but the seeds were sown in the Dravid/Chappell era. 

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4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Sad to see guys like bhajji n gambhir so bitter, I expected sehwag to do so but he has been the opposite. Never saw laxman , dravid n kumble being bitter with ganguly. Im sure dhoni as captain wud have also had his problem with these players but he keeps away from saying anything against any of them. 

The more Gambhir talks the more he is going to ruin himself.

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4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Players ganguly gave to dhoni (in which Dravid captaincy had huge role)

  1. Yuvi
  2. Zak
  3. Bhajji
  4. Sehwag 
  5. Laxman(even though debut under diff captain but found his feet under ganguly)
  6. Irfan (somewhat in early part of the career)
  7. Nehra (played his part in dhoni' captaincy)

 

Player that dhoni gave to kohli 

  1. Dhawan
  2. Rohit
  3. Kohli 
  4. Rahane
  5. Pujara
  6. Vijay 
  7. Hardik
  8. Ashwin
  9. Jadeja
  10. Shami
  11. Bhuvi 
  12. KL (debut under MS, Played and scored 100 at 4 in t20 under MS ....wud have been settled under dhoni but wasnt the case under Kohli)
  13. Ishant (debut under diff captain but had massive backing of dhoni in his tough time)
  14. Umesh 
  15. Jadhav ( even he kept playing under kohli, kohli cudnt find his replacement to)
  16. Rayudu ( highly avg but still kohli cudnt look beyond him)
  17. Deepak chahar ( who is doing well in t20s is also a dhoni's CSK product)

 

What the hell is gambo smoking 

 

There will be questions/fingers raised like this till the time these set of players get out of Knock out jinx

Ironically Dhoni himself is the most successful LOI captain of India 

 

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9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Players ganguly gave to dhoni (in which Dravid captaincy had huge role)

  1. Yuvi
  2. Zak
  3. Bhajji
  4. Sehwag 
  5. Laxman(even though debut under diff captain but found his feet under ganguly)
  6. Irfan (somewhat in early part of the career)
  7. Nehra (played his part in dhoni' captaincy)

 

Player that dhoni gave to kohli 

  1. Dhawan
  2. Rohit
  3. Kohli 
  4. Rahane
  5. Pujara
  6. Vijay 
  7. Hardik
  8. Ashwin
  9. Jadeja
  10. Shami
  11. Bhuvi 
  12. KL (debut under MS, Played and scored 100 at 4 in t20 under MS ....wud have been settled under dhoni but wasnt the case under Kohli)
  13. Ishant (debut under diff captain but had massive backing of dhoni in his tough time)
  14. Umesh 
  15. Jadhav ( even he kept playing under kohli, kohli cudnt find his replacement to)
  16. Rayudu ( highly avg but still kohli cudnt look beyond him)
  17. Deepak chahar ( who is doing well in t20s is also a dhoni's CSK product)

 

What the hell is gambo smoking 

 

You are being unfair here,i dont believe in this "captain giving players" crap but ishant,shami,yadav,bumrah have all been developed by kohli and i know they all debuted way earlier but its only in kohlis captaincy that they have flourished.

The one thing that kohli has done quite well is that he developed a "fast bowlers win test matches" culture in india and according to me he is already a legendary indian test captain just for starting this culture. 

 

Secondly the players whom you name under ganguly column were settled match winners who are regarded as great players in one or the other format and they were all settled way before dhoni came.On the other hand you have names like vijay(who did zilch under kohli),rahul(just got his mojo back a few months ago),rayudu(joke),chahar(joke),jadhav(haha).

 

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35 minutes ago, Adamant said:

You are being unfair here,i dont believe in this "captain giving players" crap but ishant,shami,yadav,bumrah have all been developed by kohli and i know they all debuted way earlier but its only in kohlis captaincy that they have flourished.

 

by that logic yuvi, zak flourished under dravid so ganguly cant take credit for them

Bumrah was settled under dhoni or else look how saini has been in n out. By the time kohli became captain bumrah showed enough so to maintain a place. 

Ishant problem was his wrist issues which was nothing to do with dhoni or kohli, gillespie helped him so even giving credit to kohli is wrong

Shami problem was fitness 

35 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Secondly the players whom you name under ganguly column were settled match winners who are regarded as great players in one or the other format and they were all settled way before dhoni came.On the other hand you have names like vijay(who did zilch under kohli),rahul(just got his mojo back a few months ago),rayudu(joke),chahar(joke),jadhav(haha).

 

who did what not cant be controlled by captain - he can back someone enough after that it upto him. 

Someone kaif, balaji didnt go long way so ganguly cant be blamed

Hows is chahar a joke ? Have u seen his avg in t20 its one of the best 

Rahul- he got his mojo on his own, kohli is responsible for mishandling him as well 

I knw rayudu is a joke but shows how **** kohli is as captain who cudnt look beyond him when even dhoni dumped him in 2015 Wc

Jadhav career wasnt as bad ppl make out 

 

At the end kohli was given a huge pool of players ....to his failure he cudnt add much and most of what he did were mostly messed up by TM

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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The Indian line up between late 2007-early 2011 was one of the best ever in our history. This has nothing to do with Dhoni.

 

Comparing Ganguly’s and Dhoni’s success is no different from the other thread saying Kambli was a greater player than Laxman because he had a higher average. Context matters.

 

Since  2011, We got eliminated in the first round of 1 WT20, Final and semis in the other 2. Even in 2009 & 2010 lost in the first round because most of our greats didn’t play T20.

 

Got whitewashed in most test series. Lost to England at home and limped our way against Australia.

 

Lost 2 WC semis and 1 CT final. Even lost to Bangladesh and Pakistan in a bilateral. Lost to SL in CT etc etc etc.

 

Yes Dhoni aggressively backed a few players like Rohit, Ishant and Jadeja. He deserves credit for that but in terms of changing the course of Indian cricket as a captain, Dhoni was not as influential as Ganguly. Even Dravid who is brought up as a forgotten savior was very good as a tactician and strategist but was average as a leader, this is one place Dhoni trumps Dravid.

 

Gambhir might have some personal issues with Dhoni and it may sound little ruder that it was intended but Ganguly over Dhoni any day as a captain.


 

 

 

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Ganguly pulled Indian team out of the pits of match fixing. Under Dhoni, the word fixing came back to our Indian cricket with direct involvement of the IPL team Dhoni was part of. Add to it the whole Rhiti sports episode, Test cricket becoming 2nd priority for the captain, the whole concept of optional practice, our away test record going to the pits and captain retiring from test cricket in the middle of a tour.

 

Ganguly began the real transformation (foreign coach, focus on away test wins, backing young players, looking for pace bowlers, aggression on the field etc)  which subsequent captains benefitted from, but unfortunately none of them have been able to keep the legacy going on for too long. Biggest damage  to that legacy was done under Dhoni after the 2011 WC, when despite a 0-8 thrashing he shamelessly clung onto captaincy taking ZERO responsibility. 

 

Ganguly also had the grace to retire from the game (albeit after getting a nudge from Cheeka) and did not hang on shamelessly like Dhoni despite being way too over the hill.

 

Watch any of the players who played under Dada and Dhoni - Sehwag, VVS, Yuvi, Gambhir, Bhajji, Zak or Nehra talk publicly on camera, all rate Dada better than Dhoni as a captain. That should be the end of the debate.

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3 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Ganguly pulled Indian team out of the pits of match fixing. Under Dhoni, the word fixing came back to our Indian cricket with direct involvement of the IPL team Dhoni was part of. Add to it the whole Rhiti sports episode, Test cricket becoming 2nd priority for the captain, the whole concept of optional practice, our away test record going to the pits and captain retiring from test cricket in the middle of a tour.

 

Ganguly began the real transformation (foreign coach, focus on away test wins, backing young players, looking for pace bowlers, aggression on the field etc)  which subsequent captains benefitted from, but unfortunately none of them have been able to keep the legacy going on for too long. Biggest damage  to that legacy was done under Dhoni after the 2011 WC, when despite a 0-8 thrashing he shamelessly clung onto captaincy taking ZERO responsibility. 

 

Ganguly also had the grace to retire from the game (albeit after getting a nudge from Cheeka) and did not hang on shamelessly like Dhoni despite being way too over the hill.

 

Watch any of the players who played under Dada and Dhoni - Sehwag, VVS, Yuvi, Gambhir, Bhajji, Zak or Nehra talk publicly on camera, all rate Dada better than Dhoni as a captain. That should be the end of the debate.

Even then he couldn't win a 11 or 12 tournament finals. Only if he could have fielded better and ran better. May be we could have won more series. He also had glaring weakness against short stuff. 

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If i go by his dumbass logic 

 

England beat India in 2013 at home. He was part of that 2013 Test squad along with Sachin, Zaheer, Sehwag, Yuvi and Co.  So is he trying to say that he was a quality player yet managed to lose? 

 

Compared to team that was passed on by Dhoni to Virat who never lost a series at home and has a Away series win in AUS so apparently that's not a quality side ? Isolation is getting to some people. This guy is a such a flip flop. 

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5 hours ago, maniac said:

The Indian line up between late 2007-early 2011 was one of the best ever in our history. This has nothing to do with Dhoni.

I wonder how that happened ? I wonder who started the cleaning out oldies from 2007 in ODIs ? You just like Gambo is nothing but a flip flop. 

 

5 hours ago, maniac said:

Since  2011, We got eliminated in the first round of 1 WT20, Final and semis in the other 2. Even in 2009 & 2010 lost in the first round because most of our greats didn’t play T20.

India won a bloody 2007 T20 WC without the help of your oldies. While they shamelessly got knocked out in 2007,  Dhoni took a young squad and WON one. Guy atleast won 2007 , 2011 , 2013 ICC events. What did oldies win other than hearts and lungs like Bangaldesh before Dhoni in ICC events.

 

6 hours ago, maniac said:

Got whitewashed in most test series. Lost to England at home and limped our way against Australia.

Sachin, Zaheer, Sehwag, Yuvi and Co. was part of that England tour. So what you on about ? Just like Gambo you are speaking out of your Bum as always. Agenda driven chamcha :cantstop:

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3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

We're strictly talking about recognising talented cricketers and developing them. Dhoni has a very poor track record of doing that. 

Track record of winning big trophies unlike gangu bhai. Like i said I rather take trophies than hearts and lungs gangu bhai won. 

 

Virat Kohli ( Best Batsmen India has ever produced. He was backed by Dhoni, Kohli himself said it) - 3 formats player

 

Rohit Sharma ( MS backed him like No one else. Trolled alot in initial years. Just look at him now)  - 2 formats player

 

Bumrah (If he keeps going like this he ll the best ever fast bowler. Played almost every match under MS) - 3 formats players

 

Pujara (Won a series in Aus and his performances speak for itself) Test player 

 

Jaddu (Was trolled for being CSK quota but  can't show me single spinning allrounder who is better than him) 

 

Raina (Under rated but prob best T20 player of all time for India. Has many records in IPL and many crucial innings for India) 2 format player 

 

Dhoni himself ( No much to be said... GOAT) 3 format player 

 

Ishant /  Shami / Bhuvi ( One of them would easily walk in to All time XI to play with Zak and Bumrah) 

 

Hell he even gave chance to finished yuvi after 2013CT win. 

 

All these players can walk into anytime India XI based on format. 

Edited by Rasgulla

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