Real Casteism in India - Possible Solutions

[coffee_rules]

Rural India is riddled with caste groups fighting over land, thekedaari, jameendaari, political power and religiously too.

 

Temple entry in 2020 over casteism is really sad. We need RW intellectuals to voice their opinion. All this is silenced in the cacaphony of social sciences grads voicing anti-casteism in cities where it is almost eradicated

 

I am a supporter of Agniveer who are fighting real casteism in India unlike fakers like Azad, Jai Bheem goons

 

 

[sandeep]

tbh I am ignorant and unaware of caste issues - growing up in Bombay, and in not a very ritualistically religious family, caste seems like a distant 'on-paper' concept to me.  

 

I'm glad you posted this here, just don't get too upset if some wackos accuse you of "hinduphobia".

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

tbh I am ignorant and unaware of caste issues - growing up in Bombay, and in not a very ritualistically religious family, caste seems like a distant 'on-paper' concept to me.  

 

I'm glad you posted this here, just don't get too upset if some wackos accuse you of "hinduphobia".

In my extended family, I see cases of inter-caste marriages in current 20 somethings. Marwadis, SCs, Christians, name it. Not so much earlier. But in villages, everybody knows everybody else and their caste. Hence. Such things happen. Nobody in urban temples ask people’s’ caste

 

I don’t see a solution in my lifetime, hopefully things will get better. Education is key for all, current RW seems to care more for soul vultures than to eradicate casteism. Urbans still practice endogamy which is least of the problems.
 

Then, we have rabble-rousers like TMKrishna who are creating nuisance where there is none. Classical music and dance is least bothered about caste and he is witch-hunting there. 

 

first of all, caste , the invented word has to be fought. It is a colonial construct, we had jathis and communities which had their differences.

http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/cas3.pdf

 

“The caste system, as described in Indian textbooks, is a creation of the an-
thropologists and sociologists of the nineteenth century who were then studying
the bewildering complexity of Indian society. The informants of these social
scientists used the theories of the archaic dharma ́s ̄astras to fit the communi-
ties in a four-varna model. Although such classification was wrong, it has been .
used by generations of Indologists and filtering into popular books it has, by endless repetition, received a certain validity and authority. In an example of reality being fashioned in the image of a simulacrum, many Indians have started believing in the enduring truth of this classification”

[Gollum]

Never saw direct casteism in urban Bengal (rare good thing cos of communist rule), maybe it was subtle and I missed noticing. But in states like UP, MP, Telangana, Karnataka (less), TN different story....those societies are sharply divided along rigid lines because of this monster. Casteist groups are internal enemy for dharmics, even Sikhs have a huge caste issue and Dalits in Punjab face a torrid time. Same problem in Muslim and Christian communities, but they try to downplay it.....slowly but surely disgruntled protests/voices of the downtrodden like Pasmandas are emerging. 

 

It cost us centuries of slavery/persecution at the hands of invaders/colonialists and has held us back since independence, single biggest problem that even the Gandhis and Nehrus tried to sideline. For me Babasaheb will always be the 'Father of Modern India'...in schools children are taught Nehru's 'Tryst with Destiny' but for me Ambedkar's  'Annihilation of Caste' must be essential reading and drilled into the minds of kids. Some katter Hindus may find his views blasphemous but come on, Ambedkar called a spade a spade, wasn't a hypocrite like these modern pseudo-intellectuals. Imagine how strong the Hindu community would be if caste boundaries were eliminated !!!!

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gollum

[Stan AF]

Finally a great topic on this section of the site. Kudos

 

In TN caste is very much prevalent not just in villages even in 2nd tier towns and in urban centres and among all religions. even in christians and from what i heard among muslims also. Political parties DMK, ADMK and PMK are all driven by a bigger set or a subset of three major OBC's (Thevar, Gounder and Vanniyars). For ex: in admk , CM EPS is gounder and OPS is thevar. this is how things roll. The major bigwigs are among these 3 castes. you all get the idea. PMK is literally known as Party of Vanniyars. As much as I'd love to say DMK doesn't do these  things the fact is they don't do it much openly but it is still better than admk/pmk. Even Periyar could do only so much. They have done solid some groundwork and enacted things for the upliftment of dalits but it is still a long way to go.

 

The next big political uprising in TN would be the rise of dalits who now make up 20% of the population. I'm looking forward to it and I wish them the very best.

 

 

[Gollum]

OBC vs SC/ST is the real battle at least in North. In UP more than the upper castes it is the OBC category which has oppressed the Dalits (SP vs BSP), inflicted violence, riots etc. I think a similar trend in other states, like how Ramadoss' PMK (Vanniyars) has targetted Dalits in riots in recent years. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gollum

[Stan AF]

10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

OBC vs SC/ST is the real battle at least in North. In UP more than the upper castes it is the OBC category which has oppressed the Dalits (SP vs BSP), inflicted violence, riots etc. I think a similar trend in other states, like how Ramadoss' PMK (Vanniyars) has targetted Dalits in riots in recent years. 

I'm sure you would have heard about the murder case of Kausalya's husband. An OBC girl married a Dalit boy against her parent's wishes and they were attacked and the husband murdered in broad daylight in an open bus stand in main road. The girl kausalya fought for her life and she came back and she took her parents to court and got them convicted.

 

But as expected the government machinery botched the case and her father got acquitted in high court. Things as I said have a long way too go.

[Stan AF]

 

 

This is the video of that murder incident. Happened 4 years ago in Udumalaipet in TN.

 

Warning : This video contains gruesome murder. Not advisable to view for everyone. Exercise strict caution.

[Trichromatic]

Rural India or older generation all over India.

[Clarke]

Not to distract from the topic but this case from Guna in MP is ignoring the multiple problems involved and painting it as casteism. They use the caste only when convenient, either to gain clicks or create their own world view as the reality. The real problems of encroachment, police/legal problems get sidelined and it just becomes a political mudslinging match over caste. 

[coffee_rules]

11 minutes ago, Clarke said:

Not to distract from the topic but this case from Guna in MP is ignoring the multiple problems involved and painting it as casteism. They use the caste only when convenient, either to gain clicks or create their own world view as the reality. The real problems of encroachment, police/legal problems get sidelined and it just becomes a political mudslinging match over caste. 

Yes, that's why we need to identify the "Real" cases. RW people only target the "political" casteism and ignore the "real" issues. Casteism does exist which needs to be dealt. If you see a coordinated attack when all usual suspects from Lutyens, JNUites, Kavitha Kishnan and her ilk, start tweeting , most likely that case is a political mud-slinging and a target for ignore. Sad that the real issue gets neglected by their loud actions.

Edited July 16, 2020 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, Stan AF said:

I'm sure you would have heard about the murder case of Kausalya's husband. An OBC girl married a Dalit boy against her parent's wishes and they were attacked and the husband murdered in broad daylight in an open bus stand in main road. The girl kausalya fought for her life and she came back and she took her parents to court and got them convicted.

 

But as expected the government machinery botched the case and her father got acquitted in high court. Things as I said have a long way too go.

Such cases do exist in TN. AP, not so much in Kar, Kerala. In Kerala it is usuall religious - Hindu/Christian and Muslims. Brahmins get the blame for all the ills, most of the casteist violence is from other so-called upper castes. We need to shed this hierarchy. In Kar, casteism is more limited to vote-bank politics where all should get representation, so each seat is marked as per their majority castes. Kurubas (Shepherd castes) for major bloc in Kar, which SIdda from that community. Ofcourse Gowdas from JD(s) and Veerashivas form the other blocs. It usually doesn't end up killing one-another like in UP/Bihar or even AP/TN. 

[Stan AF]

Not sure about Karnataka. But I've heard in Kerala. A christian OBC(I'm assuming) family of a girl murdered a dalit christian kevin joseph in Kerala. This was all over the news last year.

 

In this case Caste doesn't know religion.  This is not religious. This is purely caste.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Stan AF

[The Dark Horse]

8 hours ago, Stan AF said:

Finally a great topic on this section of the site. Kudos

 

In TN caste is very much prevalent not just in villages even in 2nd tier towns and in urban centres and among all religions. even in christians and from what i heard among muslims also. Political parties DMK, ADMK and PMK are all driven by a bigger set or a subset of three major OBC's (Thevar, Gounder and Vanniyars). For ex: in admk , CM EPS is gounder and OPS is thevar. this is how things roll. The major bigwigs are among these 3 castes. you all get the idea. PMK is literally known as Party of Vanniyars. As much as I'd love to say DMK doesn't do these  things the fact is they don't do it much openly but it is still better than admk/pmk. Even Periyar could do only so much. They have done solid some groundwork and enacted things for the upliftment of dalits but it is still a long way to go.

 

The next big political uprising in TN would be the rise of dalits who now make up 20% of the population. I'm looking forward to it and I wish them the very best.

 

 

[The Dark Horse]

There is no politics without caste in India. Whichever way you look at it that's the reality.

[The Dark Horse]

In TN, people don't discriminate except in some rare instances. Friends/colleagues are from all castes. Even in public places there is nearly zero as compared to old times. But when it comes to inter caste marriages some castes/families are really particular and it gets nasty. Politicians make use of it and create propoganda to benefit themselves. There is a section of politicians who even encourage scheduled caste youngsters to swoon other caste girls and then demand money. It goes both ways. If one is not very keen in noticing these things, one might be easily made to believe what the media(politicians) want them to. I don't see things improving any time in the near future. The same happens with religion too (for votes).

Edited July 16, 2020 by The Dark Horse

[Stan AF]

TDH,

 

I didn't say they were saints. I said they are doing it, just less pronounced. Agree to disagree.

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

TDH,

 

I didn't say they were saints. I said they are doing it, just less pronounced. Agree to disagree.

Their casteism is limited to Brahmin hate and chasing them out of TN.

[jalebi_bhai]

I think the common consensus is that caste is an Indian thing, not necessarily exclusive to Hindu religion.

 

Two important questions need to be asked then:

 

1. How do we rid ourselves of caste based discrimination? Indian state itself practices caste based affirmative action so only God knows if this is even possible. No political party will touch this issue.

 

2. Do Indians really want to get rid of the caste system?

 

As mentioned above, we have caste based reservation in India. There are a lot of backward class/caste people who have genuinely benefitted from it and experienced social mobility. However, without an existing caste system, you can't have caste based reservation. 

 

What's the solution here then?

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, jalebi_bhai said:

I think the common consensus is that caste is an Indian thing, not necessarily exclusive to Hindu religion.

 

Two important questions need to be asked then:

 

1. How do we rid ourselves of caste based discrimination? Indian state itself practices caste based affirmative action so only God knows if this is even possible. No political party will touch this issue.

 

2. Do Indians really want to get rid of the caste system?

 

As mentioned above, we have caste based reservation in India. There are a lot of backward class/caste people who have genuinely benefitted from it and experienced social mobility. However, without an existing caste system, you can't have caste based reservation. 

 

What's the solution here then?

Education.

 

Time.

 

Economic Progress for overall society.

 

Scarcity strengthens prejudice, when you are comfortable and rich, its easier to be generous and openminded.