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Rahane's future

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year 2013   3 6 1 217 96 43.40 466 46.56 0 2 0 30 2 view innings
year 2014   10 19 1 809 147 44.94 1348 60.01 3 4 2 109 2 view innings
year 2015   9 15 2 593 127 45.61 1103 53.76 3 1 1 59 8 view innings
year 2016   10 15 3 653 188 54.41 1369 47.69 2 2 1 66 7 view innings
year 2017   11 18 2 554 132 34.62 1084 51.10 1 3 1 59 4 view innings
year 2018   12 21 0 644 81 30.66 1462 44.04 0 5 1 65 3 view innings
year 2019   8 11 2 642 115 71.33 1285 49.96 2 5 0 75 3 view innings
year 2020   2 4 0 91 46 22.75 283 32.15 0 0 0 12 0

 

 

In 2019 bashed Bangladesh, WI and SA (at home).    On either side he has been abysmal. With India playing 5 bowlers (most of  them can't bat) is it wise to persist with someone giving such low returns?  

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Sucks in SENA, sucks in India, can't even catch properly these days...dropped 5-6 consecutive sitters in 2019 home series against RSA/BD. Only reason he is there is to make Kohli look good. Rahane will play 100 tests, Gill won't debut before 2025, Indian cricket circus. So unfair that Karun had to make way for this guy after a scintillating 300. 

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I don't think Rahane has a single MOS in his resume. Max he may fire in one innings and then be an idle spectator for rest of the series, sometimes he sucks the momentum and other times his comedy makes the pitch look 10x more treacherous sending other batters in a tizzy. Best example is that 2017 Pune test where his 15 mins Kathakali against Lyon/Keefe spread panic throughout the Indian dugout...did something similar against Wagner earlier this year.

 

Pujara was a total HTB before 2018 Aus but at least he was a beast in SC conditions. Players like Rahane add no value to the team.

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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

I don't think Rahane has a single MOS in his resume. Max he may fire in one innings and then be an idle spectator for rest of the series

Reminds me somewhat of Tendulkar kind of attitude - 1 100 per series, job done, fans happy w/ watching the video clips of straight drives 

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5 minutes ago, Norman said:

He's the only one who knows Sachin's FCA. 

 

Don't judge him. :hitler:

What I like about Zen is he has a certain method and pattern to his madness, it’s not usually a thrown in statement. That’s something I can relate to :giggle:.  
 

So I am curious about his breakthrough analysis that puts Rahane in the same bracket as Sachin . I mean we are going to get a new breakthrough analysis after RPT and FCA :laugh:

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

What I like about Zen is he has a certain method and pattern to his madness, it’s not usually a thrown in statement. That’s something I can relate to :giggle:.  
 

So I am curious about his breakthrough analysis that puts Rahane in the same bracket as Sachin . I mean we are going to get a new breakthrough analysis after RPT and FCA :laugh:

I compared the "attitude" not necessarily skills. Among batsmen of his calibre of his generation, Tendulkar has played the most # of series but has only a handful of MoS awards or even a big series, translating into a "relatively" low ratio. 

 

Excluding BD and Zim, 

 

Away

  • Tendulkar has played 24 series overseas involving 3 tests or more, but only on 4 occasions he has been able to hit 2 or more 100s (has never hit 3 100s in a series) 
  • Lara has played 14 series overseas, but on 4 occasions has hit 2 or more 100s (on 2 occasions, he hit 3 100s in a series) 

 

Home

  • Tendulkar in 20 series with 3 or more tests at home as only on 2 occasions scored more than 2 or more 100s in a series (has never hit 3 100s in a series)
  • Lara in 12 series with 3 or more tests at home has on on 4 occasions scored more than 2 or more 100s in a series (on 1 occasion, he hit 3 100s in a series)
Edited by zen

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30 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

yep phak ke India but my ailiaaaa scored a 100 :cantstop: 

For a relatively fluent batsman, many of his 100s were painstaking even on good surfaces like the 190 odd and 200 odd in Pak and Aus respectively .... For a guy who has played so much cricket, only memorable innings include his performance in 92 series in Aus and that 160 odd in SA :facepalm:

 

But many consider him the greatest probably for being better than Ganguly :phehe:

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Just now, zen said:

I compared the "attitude" not necessarily skills. Among batsmen of his calibre of his generation, Tendulkar has played the most # of series but as only a handful of MoS awards or even a big series, translating into a "relatively" low ratio. 

 

Excluding BD and Zim, 

 

Away

  • Tendulkar has played 24 series overseas involving 3 tests or more, but only on 4 occasions he has been able to hit 2 or more 100s (has never hit 3 100s) 
  • Lara has played 14 series overseas, but on 4 occasions has hit 2 or more 100s (on 2 occasions, he hit 3 100s in a series) 

 

Home

  • Tendulkar in 20 series with 3 or more tests at home as only on 2 occasions scored more than 2 or more 100s in a series 
  • Lara in 12 series with 3 or more tests at home as on on 4 occasions scored more than 2 or more 100s in a series 

Ironically Lara has 0 MOTS awards in a winning cause against Test standard sides. Unlike Chanderpaul, Adams, Sarwan, Wavell Hinds who have all have won MOTS awards in a winning cause while playing for the same side. 

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While Rahane has no doubt majorly underwhelmed post-2014. he has still been a consistent contributor to our wins with 17 50+ scores in wins in the last six years. Kohli for instance has just 1 more with Pujara being the highest at 21. In the past, we had folks like Gavaskar play on from 1982-87 with just 1 50+ score in a winning cause (that too came against minnows of that time at home) and yet he supposedly retired on a high because of a 90+ in a losing cause in his last Test :facepalm:. At least Rahane hasn't been that useless for us from 2015-2020 :winky:.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Ironically Lara has 0 MOTS awards in a winning cause against Test standard sides. Unlike Chanderpaul, Adams, Sarwan, Wavell Hinds who have all have won MOTS awards in a winning cause while playing for the same side. 

That is fine as by and large, wins in tests is a team effort. If you have a strong team even a random 50 will be for a winning cause. If I have to consider individual batting performance that drove wins, it would be  Laxman's 281, Lara's 153, Sehwag's 300, Pujara's performance in Aus, etc. .... Here, I am focused on how the individual is able to rack up a big series for his team and not be satisfied with for e.g. 1 100 = job done type of attitude.  

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8 hours ago, zen said:

I compared the "attitude" not necessarily skills. Among batsmen of his calibre of his generation, Tendulkar has played the most # of series but has only a handful of MoS awards or even a big series, translating into a "relatively" low ratio. 

 

Excluding BD and Zim, 

 

Away

  • Tendulkar has played 24 series overseas involving 3 tests or more, but only on 4 occasions he has been able to hit 2 or more 100s (has never hit 3 100s in a series) 
  • Lara has played 14 series overseas, but on 4 occasions has hit 2 or more 100s (on 2 occasions, he hit 3 100s in a series) 

 

Home

  • Tendulkar in 20 series with 3 or more tests at home as only on 2 occasions scored more than 2 or more 100s in a series (has never hit 3 100s in a series)
  • Lara in 12 series with 3 or more tests at home has on on 4 occasions scored more than 2 or more 100s in a series (on 1 occasion, he hit 3 100s in a series)

Lara played 11 test series with 5 or more matches and scored 2 or more 100s 9 times overall (not in same series) in career.

Tendulkar played 3 test series with 5 matches and scored 2 or more 100s 11 times (not in same series) in career.

 

Anyway with filter of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh...

Lara's performance in Sri Lanka was indeed one of the best. But you count his performance in England (3 centuries) as something which SRT couldn't do.

 

Well WI played 6 tests in that series in 1995 and guess how many centuries he scored in first 4 matches? 

 

Answer is 1

 

Lara played 6 test series of 5 or more tests - and scored more than 1 100s in only 1 of those - that too after in 5th and 6th test.

Tendulkar played 5 or more tests 3 times and scored 2 100s once.

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Anyway with filter of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh...

Lara's performance in Sri Lanka was indeed one of the best. But you count his performance in England (3 centuries) as something which SRT couldn't do.

The point is on attitude where hitting 1 100 in a series = job done so the rest do not matter .... A player considered of extremely high caliber with 44 series with 3 or more tests has plenty of opportunities to make it "count" 

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16 minutes ago, zen said:

The point is on attitude where hitting 1 100 in a series = job done so the rest do not matter .... A player considered of extremely high caliber with 44 series with 3 or more tests has plenty of opportunities to make it "count" 

And whatever is done is not plenty is arbitrary criteria. 

 

I can set an arbitrary criteria of scoring 1 100s every 2 tests is what matter and declare each and every batsman except Bradman lacked attitude. 

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18 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

And whatever is done is not plenty is arbitrary criteria. 

 

I can set an arbitrary criteria of scoring 1 100s every 2 tests is what matter and declare each and every batsman of international cricket lacked attitude. 

FYI, Bradman has 29 100s in 52 tests so that is more than 1 100 every 2 tests 

 

Coming back to the point - If we want teams like India to be competitive in tests (at least not lose as much as it has), top batsmen need to put their hand up a lot more. Someone like Dravid has scored 2 or more 100s 6 times in 36 series of 3 or more tests. While Sehwag has done it on 3 occasions in 21 series. I guess, likes of Kallis and Waugh would have a better ratio too. 

Edited by zen

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7 hours ago, zen said:

FYI, Bradman has 29 100s in 52 tests so that is more than 1 100 every 2 tests 

 

Coming back to the point - If we want teams like India to be competitive in tests (at least not lose as much as it has), top batsmen need to put their hand up a lot more. Someone like Dravid has scored 2 or more 100s 6 times in 36 series of 3 or more tests. While Sehwag has done it on 3 occasions in 21 series. I guess, likes of Kallis and Waugh would have a better ratio too. 

you should also consider bowling which Dravid faced on those series. I found Dravid a bit overrated in test. If you see 2 best bowling side during his time Aus and SA. look at his batting performance till the time these team have great bowler. Most of his overseas performance were against mediocre eng/nz bowlers. Only 2011 series was his best performance against eng also agains pakistan till the time 2ws and akhtar were in full charge look at his mediocre 24-26 avg against pak, here come sami and gul type bowlers and lacklusture akhtar and saqulain and his avg sore up. Heck even against murali and mendis he was walking wkts . BTW based on your criteria how many players are there in hisotry who hit one century per series out of total series which they have played in their entire career, you think hitting one hundred every series is easy . Hitting one 100 and 2 70s and 80s  in 3 test series are much better than hitting a 100 in 5/4 match series and batting like Chris Martin in remaining matches which is the case with Rahane.

Edited by raki05

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11 hours ago, zen said:

The point is on attitude where hitting 1 100 in a series = job done so the rest do not matter .... A player considered of extremely high caliber with 44 series with 3 or more tests has plenty of opportunities to make it "count" 

Tendu's peak rating substantiates that, he couldn't dominate series after series like other ATGs. 898 is still good but a big factor against his GOAThood. Not just cricket, to be a GOAT in any sport your peak rating must be among the top.

 

ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating
1 961 D.G. Bradman AUS 961 v India, 10/02/1948
2 947 S.P.D. Smith AUS 947 v England, 30/12/2017
3 945 L. Hutton ENG 945 v West Indies, 03/04/1954
4 942 J.B. Hobbs ENG 942 v Australia, 23/08/1912
4 942 R.T. Ponting AUS 942 v England, 05/12/2006
6 941 P.B.H. May ENG 941 v Australia, 27/08/1956
7 938 G.S. Sobers WI 938 v India, 17/01/1967
7 938 K.C. Sangakkara SL 938 v England, 05/12/2007
7 938 C.L. Walcott WI 938 v Australia, 15/06/1955
7 938 I.V.A. Richards WI 938 v England, 31/03/1981
11 937 V. Kohli IND 937 v England, 22/08/2018
12 935 M.L. Hayden AUS 935 v England, 11/11/2002
12 935 J.H. Kallis SA 935 v New Zealand, 22/11/2007
12 935 A.B. de Villiers SA 935 v Australia, 24/02/2014
15 933 Mohammad Yousuf PAK 933 v West Indies, 01/12/2006
16 927 R.G. Pollock SA 927 v Australia, 23/02/1970
16 927 E.D. Weekes WI 927 v New Zealand, 07/03/1956
18 922 K.D. Walters AUS 922 v South Africa, 23/02/1970
18 922 A.D. Nourse SA 922 v England, 11/06/1951
20 921 M.E.K. Hussey AUS 921 v West Indies, 27/05/2008
20 921 R.N. Harvey AUS 921 v South Africa, 10/02/1953
22 917 J.E. Root ENG 917 v Australia, 10/08/2015
22 917 D.C.S. Compton ENG 917 v Australia, 12/07/1948
24 916 S.M. Gavaskar IND 916 v England, 03/09/1979
25 915 G.A. Headley WI 915 v England, 25/01/1948
25 915 K.S. Williamson NZ 915 v Sri Lanka, 19/12/2018
27 914 K.F. Barrington ENG 914 v New Zealand, 12/07/1965
28 911 B.C. Lara WI 911 v South Africa, 06/01/2004
29 909 K.P. Pietersen ENG 909 v West Indies, 01/06/2007
30 907 H.M. Amla SA 907 v Pakistan, 17/10/2013
31 901 S. Chanderpaul WI 901 v New Zealand, 23/12/2008
32 900 M.J. Clarke AUS 900 v Sri Lanka, 30/12/2012
33 898 S.R. Tendulkar IND 898 v Zimbabwe, 25/02/2002
34 897 W.R. Hammond ENG 897 v New Zealand, 04/04/1933
35 895 A. Flower ZIM 895 v South Africa, 18/09/2001
35 895 S.R. Waugh AUS 895 v England, 07/07/1997

 

No shame in that....there is a reason Karpov and Anand despite their longevity (>3 decades) and 5 official world titles each don't make the GOAT discussion and those two are much closer to the (inflation adjusted) peak ratings of Kasparov (5 times world champ)/Carlsen (x4) than Sachin is to the Don. Despite being at the top for longer period Karpov/Anand will be top 5 but ALWAYS below the two 2850+ guys. Beyond a point longevity loses its relevance, it can push you to close to the peak but not at numero uno. 

 

Also why I rate Nole>Fed>Nadal....all will have more or less similar GS titles+other trophies but peak ELO of Nole is 100 pts more than that of his 2 great rivals. Peak Nole had that amazing 2011 season and a non-calendar year GS in 2015-16. Beat that. 

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3 hours ago, raki05 said:

you should also consider bowling which Dravid faced on those series. I found Dravid a bit overrated in test. If you see 2 best bowling side during his time Aus and SA. look at his batting performance till the time these team have great bowler. Most of his overseas performance were against mediocre eng/nz bowlers. Only 2011 series was his best performance against eng also agains pakistan till the time 2ws and akhtar were in full charge look at his mediocre 24-26 avg against pak, here come sami and gul type bowlers and lacklusture akhtar and saqulain and his avg sore up. Heck even against murali and mendis he was walking wkts . BTW based on your criteria how many players are there in hisotry who hit one century per series out of total series which they have played in their entire career, you think hitting one hundred every series is easy . Hitting one 100 and 2 70s and 80s  in 3 test series are much better than hitting a 100 in 5/4 match series and batting like Chris Martin in remaining matches which is the case with Rahane.

Both Dravid and Sachin faced similar attacks so ....

 

Now Dravid can be overrated but let's us stop scamming ourselves by overrating Sachin :no:

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This Lara Tendulkar here is a distraction. 

 

Look at what the champ is saying https://www.thestatesman.com/sports/want-make-comeback-odis-says-ajinkya-rahane-1502907887.html

 

Saala not good enough to play tests but somehow wants to make an odi comeback. 

 

Dunno how he lost his way, IPL or something else. 

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20 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Tendu's peak rating substantiates that, he couldn't dominate series after series like other ATGs. 898 is still good but a big factor against his GOAThood. Not just cricket, to be a GOAT in any sport your peak rating must be among the top.

 

ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating
1 961 D.G. Bradman AUS 961 v India, 10/02/1948
2 947 S.P.D. Smith AUS 947 v England, 30/12/2017
3 945 L. Hutton ENG 945 v West Indies, 03/04/1954
4 942 J.B. Hobbs ENG 942 v Australia, 23/08/1912
4 942 R.T. Ponting AUS 942 v England, 05/12/2006
6 941 P.B.H. May ENG 941 v Australia, 27/08/1956
7 938 G.S. Sobers WI 938 v India, 17/01/1967
7 938 K.C. Sangakkara SL 938 v England, 05/12/2007
7 938 C.L. Walcott WI 938 v Australia, 15/06/1955
7 938 I.V.A. Richards WI 938 v England, 31/03/1981
11 937 V. Kohli IND 937 v England, 22/08/2018
12 935 M.L. Hayden AUS 935 v England, 11/11/2002
12 935 J.H. Kallis SA 935 v New Zealand, 22/11/2007
12 935 A.B. de Villiers SA 935 v Australia, 24/02/2014
15 933 Mohammad Yousuf PAK 933 v West Indies, 01/12/2006
16 927 R.G. Pollock SA 927 v Australia, 23/02/1970
16 927 E.D. Weekes WI 927 v New Zealand, 07/03/1956
18 922 K.D. Walters AUS 922 v South Africa, 23/02/1970
18 922 A.D. Nourse SA 922 v England, 11/06/1951
20 921 M.E.K. Hussey AUS 921 v West Indies, 27/05/2008
20 921 R.N. Harvey AUS 921 v South Africa, 10/02/1953
22 917 J.E. Root ENG 917 v Australia, 10/08/2015
22 917 D.C.S. Compton ENG 917 v Australia, 12/07/1948
24 916 S.M. Gavaskar IND 916 v England, 03/09/1979
25 915 G.A. Headley WI 915 v England, 25/01/1948
25 915 K.S. Williamson NZ 915 v Sri Lanka, 19/12/2018
27 914 K.F. Barrington ENG 914 v New Zealand, 12/07/1965
28 911 B.C. Lara WI 911 v South Africa, 06/01/2004
29 909 K.P. Pietersen ENG 909 v West Indies, 01/06/2007
30 907 H.M. Amla SA 907 v Pakistan, 17/10/2013
31 901 S. Chanderpaul WI 901 v New Zealand, 23/12/2008
32 900 M.J. Clarke AUS 900 v Sri Lanka, 30/12/2012
33 898 S.R. Tendulkar IND 898 v Zimbabwe, 25/02/2002
34 897 W.R. Hammond ENG 897 v New Zealand, 04/04/1933
35 895 A. Flower ZIM 895 v South Africa, 18/09/2001
35 895 S.R. Waugh AUS 895 v England, 07/07/1997

 

No shame in that....there is a reason Karpov and Anand despite their longevity (>3 decades) and 5 official world titles each don't make the GOAT discussion and those two are much closer to the (inflation adjusted) peak ratings of Kasparov (5 times world champ)/Carlsen (x4) than Sachin is to the Don. Despite being at the top for longer period Karpov/Anand will be top 5 but ALWAYS below the two 2850+ guys. Beyond a point longevity loses its relevance, it can push you to close to the peak but not at numero uno. 

 

Also why I rate Nole>Fed>Nadal....all will have more or less similar GS titles+other trophies but peak ELO of Nole is 100 pts more than that of his 2 great rivals. Peak Nole had that amazing 2011 season and a non-calendar year GS in 2015-16. Beat that. 

 

That "longevity" is questionable too in the sense that was it purely based on merit or attributed to playing for a team like India  .... Having followed his career and therefore having a sense of how Sachin thinks, I had said when many were speculating on his retirement that he is not going to retire before playing his 200th test 

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1 hour ago, zen said:

Both Dravid and Sachin faced similar attacks so ....

 

Now Dravid can be overrated but let's us stop scamming ourselves by overrating Sachin :no:

Yet look at his record in sa and aus. Sachin in 99 series was lone warrior. Even the Asia test championship and test those days against pak have you seen Dravid's performance check out . BTW You don't answer my question how come scoring a century  and bunch of 70-80s score in 3 match series is same as playing pathetic like tail unders in entire 4-5 match series and than scoring painstaking one 80-90 /100 to keep the career alive.

Edited by raki05

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1 hour ago, raki05 said:

BTW You don't answer my question how come scoring a century  and bunch of 70-80s score in 3 match series is same as playing pathetic like tail unders in entire 4-5 match series and than scoring painstaking one 80-90 /100 to keep the career alive.

You are asking questions on an unrelated scenario. I am comparing the "attitude" in which Sachin among ATG batsmen is a Rahane, or Rahane among regular batsmen is like the Sachin among ATG batsmen - not making the good form count to rake up a huge series for the team. The Dravid, Sehwag, Kallis, ...., example shows that Sachin's peers have done relatively better in terms of making the form "count". 

 

Edited by zen

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Tendu's peak rating substantiates that, he couldn't dominate series after series like other ATGs. 898 is still good but a big factor against his GOAThood. Not just cricket, to be a GOAT in any sport your peak rating must be among the top.

 

ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating
1 961 D.G. Bradman AUS 961 v India, 10/02/1948
2 947 S.P.D. Smith AUS 947 v England, 30/12/2017
3 945 L. Hutton ENG 945 v West Indies, 03/04/1954
4 942 J.B. Hobbs ENG 942 v Australia, 23/08/1912
4 942 R.T. Ponting AUS 942 v England, 05/12/2006
6 941 P.B.H. May ENG 941 v Australia, 27/08/1956
7 938 G.S. Sobers WI 938 v India, 17/01/1967
7 938 K.C. Sangakkara SL 938 v England, 05/12/2007
7 938 C.L. Walcott WI 938 v Australia, 15/06/1955
7 938 I.V.A. Richards WI 938 v England, 31/03/1981
11 937 V. Kohli IND 937 v England, 22/08/2018
12 935 M.L. Hayden AUS 935 v England, 11/11/2002
12 935 J.H. Kallis SA 935 v New Zealand, 22/11/2007
12 935 A.B. de Villiers SA 935 v Australia, 24/02/2014
15 933 Mohammad Yousuf PAK 933 v West Indies, 01/12/2006
16 927 R.G. Pollock SA 927 v Australia, 23/02/1970
16 927 E.D. Weekes WI 927 v New Zealand, 07/03/1956
18 922 K.D. Walters AUS 922 v South Africa, 23/02/1970
18 922 A.D. Nourse SA 922 v England, 11/06/1951
20 921 M.E.K. Hussey AUS 921 v West Indies, 27/05/2008
20 921 R.N. Harvey AUS 921 v South Africa, 10/02/1953
22 917 J.E. Root ENG 917 v Australia, 10/08/2015
22 917 D.C.S. Compton ENG 917 v Australia, 12/07/1948
24 916 S.M. Gavaskar IND 916 v England, 03/09/1979
25 915 G.A. Headley WI 915 v England, 25/01/1948
25 915 K.S. Williamson NZ 915 v Sri Lanka, 19/12/2018
27 914 K.F. Barrington ENG 914 v New Zealand, 12/07/1965
28 911 B.C. Lara WI 911 v South Africa, 06/01/2004
29 909 K.P. Pietersen ENG 909 v West Indies, 01/06/2007
30 907 H.M. Amla SA 907 v Pakistan, 17/10/2013
31 901 S. Chanderpaul WI 901 v New Zealand, 23/12/2008
32 900 M.J. Clarke AUS 900 v Sri Lanka, 30/12/2012
33 898 S.R. Tendulkar IND 898 v Zimbabwe, 25/02/2002
34 897 W.R. Hammond ENG 897 v New Zealand, 04/04/1933
35 895 A. Flower ZIM 895 v South Africa, 18/09/2001
35 895 S.R. Waugh AUS 895 v England, 07/07/1997

 

No shame in that....there is a reason Karpov and Anand despite their longevity (>3 decades) and 5 official world titles each don't make the GOAT discussion and those two are much closer to the (inflation adjusted) peak ratings of Kasparov (5 times world champ)/Carlsen (x4) than Sachin is to the Don. Despite being at the top for longer period Karpov/Anand will be top 5 but ALWAYS below the two 2850+ guys. Beyond a point longevity loses its relevance, it can push you to close to the peak but not at numero uno. 

 

Also why I rate Nole>Fed>Nadal....all will have more or less similar GS titles+other trophies but peak ELO of Nole is 100 pts more than that of his 2 great rivals. Peak Nole had that amazing 2011 season and a non-calendar year GS in 2015-16. Beat that. 

So called "God" couldn't even get past 900 :phehe: says everything about him. Always a phoney

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8 hours ago, zen said:

You are asking questions on an unrelated scenario

Irony. How come a 100 and bunch of 50s is not considered great performance. Till 99 he was the main run scorer overseas even till 2000. Ya dravid , Kallis has knack of performing like beast against not so great attack, that's what I pointed out. Look at Dravid performance against ATG team with great bowlers overseas and when they were not around.

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22 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Irony. How come a 100 and bunch of 50s is not considered great performance. Till 99 he was the main run scorer overseas even till 2000. Ya dravid , Kallis has knack of performing like beast against not so great attack, that's what I pointed out. Look at Dravid performance against ATG team with great bowlers overseas and when they were not around.

You are pointing out things that do not matter to the discussion. For e.g. you want to say that Dravid performance against ATG team with great bowlers overseas is not good, but you are ignoring that batting in top 3 particularly overseas is a challenge, and Sachin, who lines up to open in ODIs, conveniently bats at #4 in tests (probably not good enough to bat in the top order in tests). 

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2 hours ago, zen said:

You are pointing out things that do not matter to the discussion. For e.g. you want to say that Dravid performance against ATG team with great bowlers overseas is not good, but you are ignoring that batting in top 3 particularly overseas is a challenge, and Sachin, who lines up to open in ODIs, conveniently bats at #4 in tests (probably not good enough to bat in the top order in tests). 

 Tendulkar was always a middle order batsmen, because of his aggresive batsmen style he has been offered opening slot and there is no need for him to bat at opener in Test. By the way this discussion was also not about Tendulkar.

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10 hours ago, raki05 said:

 Tendulkar was always a middle order batsmen, because of his aggresive batsmen style he has been offered opening slot and there is no need for him to bat at opener in Test. By the way this discussion was also not about Tendulkar.

No, of having better technique for aggression and his willingness to take risks when there are fielding restrictions. But often, he used to be non-striker as per Ganguly and didn't like to face.  TBF, in test cricket, more often he would often come in within first 10 overs until Openers and Dravid established past 2000s.

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10 hours ago, raki05 said:

 Tendulkar was always a middle order batsmen, because of his aggresive batsmen style he has been offered opening slot and there is no need for him to bat at opener in Test. By the way this discussion was also not about Tendulkar.

if it was easier to bat in the top order esp. overseas, he would have batted there too in tests. He is a batsman who looks for best slots to bat at and not necessarily take the challenge. 
 

And not surprisingly, Rahane foo prefers to open in ODIs and come down the order in tests :lol: 

 

 

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1 minute ago, zen said:

if it was easier to bat in the top order esp. overseas, he would have batted there too in tests. He is a batsman who looks for best slots to bat at and not necessarily take the challenge. 
 

And not surprisingly, Rahane foo prefers to open in ODIs and come down the order in tests :lol: 

 

 

To be in that position which is to pick and chose at your own free will , you have to get to that stature and you get to that stature by being better than everyone :winky:

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

To be in that position which is to pick and chose at your own free will , you have to get to that stature and you get to that stature by being better than everyone :winky:

In terms of skills, I rate him as among the best. It is the output in relationship to skills and mental strength, which is mainly being discussed. 

 

Also he is being overhyped in India by people who don't do well in sports in general and found someone who can compete with the best overseas. So may feel obliged to blow his horn - a case of empty vessels may be. 

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Below is a comparison of Tendulkar and Kallis at point of entry:

 

 

Tendulkar is only able to compete with Kallis when he comes at a score of 100 or more. For any score less than 100, Kallis demolishes him

 

when the batsman walks in when the team score is 0-99:

 

  • Kallis: rough avg 50 (at 0-20, avg 57)
  • Tendulkar: rough avg 43 (at 0-20, avg 41 - so not surprised to see him shy away from batting in the top order) 
Edited by zen

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28 minutes ago, zen said:

Below is a comparison of Tendulkar and Kallis at point of entry:

 

 

Tendulkar is only able to compete with Kallis when he comes at a score of 100 or more. For any score less than 100, Kallis demolishes him

 

when the batsman walks in when the team score is 0-99:

 

  • Kallis: rough avg 50 (at 0-20, avg 57)
  • Tendulkar: rough avg 43 (at 0-20, avg 41 - so not surprised to see him shy away from batting in the top order) 

Kallis has 50 innings at 3, where he has scores like 189* and 153•, so averages is higher. Tendulkar once batted at 2 and mostly from 4,5, so the split in averages at each score is already flawed. Kallis has skills to bat at 3 and 4, and comparing him with somebody only batted at 4 is not a good comparison. Tendulkar didn’t bat earlier because he was not equipped for anything other than 4.  Where he was the most successful. The team has to play their best player at 4 to maximize their win percentage.

Edited by coffee_rules

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On 7/20/2020 at 9:21 PM, Clarke said:

This Lara Tendulkar here is a distraction. 

 

Look at what the champ is saying https://www.thestatesman.com/sports/want-make-comeback-odis-says-ajinkya-rahane-1502907887.html

 

Saala not good enough to play tests but somehow wants to make an odi comeback. 

 

Dunno how he lost his way, IPL or something else. 

IPL should not be an excuse. This guy was always an overrated batsman who camouflaged his batting failures with one-off performances overseas every tour. He is somehow hailed as one of the successors of the erstwhile fab four and is labelled as a mainstay of Indian middle order, without doing anything extraordinary. It was a travesty he was even considered for LOIs over players like Iyer, Pandey etc. 

However, the hillarious part is this guy is also the vice captain of Indian test team, giving you clear indication about a brain dead team management led by King Kohli.

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2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Tendulkar didn’t bat earlier because he was not equipped for anything other than 4.  

Agree that he is probably not equipped to do well in the top order "relatively" speaking 

 

Quote

The team has to play their best player at 4 to maximize their win percentage.

Disagree as your top batsmen can play anywhere in top 4. If he is well equipped to play new ball well or mentally focused, he will most likely play in the top 3 unless the team has a more well suited #3. Once the reflexes slow down, the batsman could move down to 4 or 5. 

 

Some of the top batsmen in top 3 are below:

 

Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending 100 50 0  
DG Bradman (AUS) 1930-1948 40 56 7 5078 334 103.63 20 10 5 investigate this query
KF Barrington (ENG) 1960-1967 29 44 7 2828 172 76.43 13 8 0 investigate this query
WR Hammond (ENG) 1928-1937 40 57 7 3755 336* 75.10 15 6 1 investigate this query
GA Headley (WI) 1930-1948 19 32 3 2064 270* 71.17 10 4 1 investigate this query
IVA Richards (WI) 1976-1986 47 63 2 3787 291 62.08 13 16 2 investigate this query
H Sutcliffe (ENG) 1924-1935 54 83 9 4522 194 61.10 16 23 2 investigate this query
BC Lara (WI) 1992-2006 44 68 4 3860 400* 60.31 9 14 4 investigate this query
L Hutton (ENG) 1937-1955 76 131 12 6721 364 56.47 19 31 5 investigate this query
JB Hobbs (ENG) 1908-1930 59 98 6 5153 211 56.01 14 27 4 investigate this query
RT Ponting (AUS) 1996-2011 107 187 18 9337 257 55.24 30 40 9 investigate this query
KC Sangakkara (SL) 2000-2015 109 190 15 9564 287 54.65 28 43 10 investigate this query
RB Simpson (AUS) 1960-1968 41 74 5 3739 311 54.18 8 20 5 investigate this query
DL Amiss (ENG) 1967-1977 40 70 8 3305 262* 53.30 11 9 6 investigate this query
Younis Khan (PAK) 2000-2014 46 78 4 3836 313 51.83 12 11 7 investigate this query
SM Katich (AUS) 2004-2010 36 66 4 3187 157 51.40 8 19 2 investigate this query
ER Dexter (ENG) 1959-1968 39 59 3 2868 205 51.21 6 17 3 investigate this query
B Mitchell (SA) 1929-1949 39 71 7 3250 189* 50.78 8 20 2 investigate this query
WM Woodfull (AUS) 1926-1934 27 45 4 2071 161 50.51 7 11 4 investigate this query
V Sehwag (INDIA) 2002-2013 92 160 4 7851 319 50.32 22 27 15 investigate this query
SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1971-1987 119 203 12 9607 221 50.29 33 42 11 investigate this query
CA Pujara (INDIA) 2010-2020 70 115 7 5425 206* 50.23 18 21 7 investigate this query
IM Chappell (AUS) 1964-1980 55 94 7 4296 196 49.37 13 22 8 investigate this query
RB Kanhai (WI) 1957-1973 64 103 2 4979 256 49.29 13 21 6 investigate this query
R Dravid (INDIA) 1996-2012 133 225 20 10084 270 49.19 27 46 6 investigate this query
HM Amla (SA) 2006-2019 99 167 14 7504 311* 49.04 22 37 11 investigate this query
KS Williamson (NZ) 2011-2020 60 107 9 4806 242* 49.04 15 22 5 investigate this query

 

 

Top batsmen at 4:

 

iew overall figures [change view]
Primary team Australia remove Australia from query or Bangladesh remove Bangladesh from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lanka remove Sri Lanka from query or West Indies remove West Indies from query or Zimbabwe remove Zimbabwe from query
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lanka remove Sri Lanka from query or West Indies remove West Indies from query
Batting position equal to 4 remove equal to 4 from query
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 remove runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 from query
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 39 of 39   First pageFirst Previous pagePrevious Next Next page Last Last page dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending 100 50 0  
SPD Smith (AUS) 2013-2020 35 56 7 3664 239 74.77 13 15 1 investigate this query
ED Weekes (WI) 1948-1958 37 57 4 3372 207 63.62 11 17 3 investigate this query
RG Pollock (SA) 1963-1970 23 37 4 2065 274 62.57 7 8 1 investigate this query
JH Kallis (SA) 1998-2013 104 162 21 8662 224 61.43 34 34 10 investigate this query
KF Barrington (ENG) 1960-1968 33 44 4 2367 256 59.17 7 12 1 investigate this query
GS Chappell (AUS) 1972-1984 54 86 13 4316 247* 59.12 15 19 6 investigate this query
PBH May (ENG) 1952-1961 37 49 8 2383 285* 58.12 7 12 3 investigate this query
V Kohli (INDIA) 2013-2020 60 98 6 5338 254* 58.02 21 13 7 investigate this query
NCL O'Neill (AUS) 1958-1965 28 41 6 2010 181 57.42 5 10 3 investigate this query
Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) 2000-2010 40 62 3 3344 223 56.67 11 12 4 investigate this query
Javed Miandad (PAK) 1976-1993 101 136 12 6792 280* 54.77 19 30 4 investigate this query
Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) 1995-2005 57 82 3 4264 329 53.97 12 21 7 investigate this query
DCS Compton (ENG) 1937-1955 57 86 7 4234 278 53.59 13 20 6 investigate this query
BC Lara (WI) 1990-2006 86 140 1 7099 277 51.07 22 30 11 investigate this query
WR Hammond (ENG) 1927-1947 44 66 7 2997 240 50.79 7 15 3 investigate this query
SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 1992-2013 164 256 22 11864 241* 50.70 36 55 10 investigate this query
AR Border (AUS) 1981-1992 61 88 13 3783 205 50.44 8 21 3 investigate this query
AD Nourse (SA) 1935-1951 31 53 5 2400 208 50.00 7 13 3 investigate this query
Edited by zen

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