Who was technically most sound out of Tendulkar, Dravid and Gavaskar?

[Gollum]

16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

If you are taking about 1982 WI, he was at fag end playing for his 10000 runs only

No I am talking about almost all his successful series against WI starting from 1971. See I don't want to run down an Indian legend but 'he conquered WI quartet' is misleading. You can check which WI he mastered. I can present a series by series analysis of Sunny's exploits against WI/Aus when I have time...even his success against NZ, Pak for that matter. But if you check the scorecards and take into account WSC, you'll get the picture. He is an ATG no doubt but overrated in Indian circles...the polar opposite of Gundappa Vishy. 

[sandeep]

22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Sachin better against seam, Dravid better against swing. 

Sachin better by yards, against seam, pace, spin.  Swing? You could make a case for Dravid based on post-2005 data, which is notably post-tennis elbow for Tendy.  Even so, in aggregate, Tendy is comfortably well ahead of Dravid from a question of technical proficiency.  

[sandeep]

25 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

. In the 90s his commentary was always Tendulkar- centric. 

just why is that though?  Just what was it about Tendulkar's batting that turns SMG into a gushing admirer.  Maybe, he knows a bit about batting?

 

26 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Tendulkar had developed a weakness on playing offside , when he used to reach out to play. His highest 241 was played without a boundary on the offside. 

Again, this was after 15+ years into his career, after altering his technique, changing his bat.  To use that to judge Tendy overall as a player, is like judging Kapil's entire career on the basis of his last couple of seasons.  Just because Tendulkar was quality enough to be still be an international calibre player for 8+ years, playing at a <80% level of his best, does not, cannot be interpreted to imply, as if that was his 'norm'.  

[Gollum]

I started following cricket seriously only from around 2000...in '98 and '99 followed only occasionally.

 

Based on my viewing experience against seam and bounce I found Tendu better. Pace I will call it a tie, Dravid did prety well against genuine pace. Against spin in general Sachin was better but against offies I have to give the edge to Dravid, the way he would rock back on back foot and punch/cut against the spin was .

[coffee_rules]

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

No I am talking about almost all his successful series against WI starting from 1971. See I don't want to run down an Indian legend but 'he conquered WI quartet' is misleading. You can check which WI he mastered. I can present a series by series analysis of Sunny's exploits against WI/Aus when I have time...even his success against NZ, Pak for that matter. But if you check the scorecards and take into account WSC, you'll get the picture. He is an ATG no doubt but overrated in Indian circles...the polar opposite of Gundappa Vishy. 

Still not a total dud like Dravid in 1999 and 2004 against Aus. Even in 2008.

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

just why is that though?  Just what was it about Tendulkar's batting that turns SMG into a gushing admirer.  Maybe, he knows a bit about batting?

 

Again, this was after 15+ years into his career, after altering his technique, changing his bat.  To use that to judge Tendy overall as a player, is like judging Kapil's entire career on the basis of his last couple of seasons.  Just because Tendulkar was quality enough to be still be an international calibre player for 8+ years, playing at a <80% level of his best, does not, cannot be interpreted to imply, as if that was his 'norm'.  

I just quoted one instance due to lack of time, Sachin had some chinks and not near perfect. As I said, textbook shots all three had, Sachin the best. Not talking about that, but vague things like playing obscure spinners. He was booed in Mumbai when he couldn’t play out Shaun Udal. We are comparing the three. I am rating them, not dissing Tendulkar

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

He was booed in Mumbai when he couldn’t play out Shaun Udal. We are comparing the three. I am rating them, not dissing Tendulkar

That's an overly exaggerated interpretation of a one-off situation.  

[coffee_rules]

12 minutes ago, sandeep said:

That's an overly exaggerated interpretation of a one-off situation.  

Ray Price, Monty, Cronje all troubled him

[sandeep]

22 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Ray Price, Monty, Cronje all troubled him

"troubling" a batsman happens to many a player, especially in a 25+ year career.  Dravid was abjectly owned by McGrath and Warne. For years.  Heck even in their absence, Australia could choke his limited scoring zones and simply wait for him to get out. 

 

Tendy was not perfect - no sportsman is.  But the baseless over-hyping of Dravid to not only bring him up to Tendy's level, or to even claim somehow he was 'better', is quite frankly, silly.

[coffee_rules]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

"troubling" a batsman happens to many a player, especially in a 25+ year career.  Dravid was abjectly owned by McGrath and Warne. For years.  Heck even in their absence, Australia could choke his limited scoring zones and simply wait for him to get out. 

 

Tendy was not perfect - no sportsman is.  But the baseless over-hyping of Dravid to not only bring him up to Tendy's level, or to even claim somehow he was 'better', is quite frankly, silly.

Look at my rating. 
SMG

Tendulkar

....

Dravid

[raki05]

Dravid is overhyped in test.. Other than that eng series 2011 during his last leg . He was always piss poor against great bowling attacks. And it reflect in his batting performance against sa and aus during his days and for that matter even against Pak when 2 ws have played.

Edited July 24, 2020 by raki05

[sandeep]

28 minutes ago, raki05 said:

He was always piss poor against great bowling attacks.

piss poor is swinging pendulum in the opposite direction.  Dravid had a solid defense and was an opportunistic scorer.  It is not a co-incidence that so many of his 'famous' innings have come with an even better, more dominant innings by the other batsman in the partnership.

 

This is not to denigrate Dravid, he went on to have his share of independently match-winning innings.  But even at his best, he simply wasn't the calibre of batsman that in-prime Tendy was.  It is what it is.

[sandeep]

32 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Look at my rating. 
SMG

Tendulkar

....

Dravid

The thing about Gavaskar's batting as compared to Tendy, is that SMG's batting was built on the fundamentals of attrition.  Of tiring the bowlers out.  Playing the waiting game.  Partly its a function of the era, partly a function of the fact that he batted in a brittle batting unit, especially away.  

 

But Tendy also batted with brittle batting units, but still dominated bowlers.  Especially in the 90s.  Even away.  In spite of coming in at 10/2, more often than not.

 

But Gavaskar's performances were special in their own right.  And I have no qualms with folks evaluating him as a shade higher than Tendy.  I mean, comparisons across eras are always tricky and subjective anyway.  But that at least has some semblance of logic and merit.  But claiming that the likes of a Dravid, a Ponting or a Kallis, are somehow better than Tendy, is silly.

[Straight Drive]

Imo Sunny is India's best test batsman ever imo. Sunny,Tendulkar and Dravid are all technically sound batsmen.

 

However, Sachin had the slightly better ability to score runs off good balls which Sunny and Dravid would usually just fend off or score nothing of it more often than not. In stroke play aspect he had the better intent to score in test format than other two.

[zen]

Gavaskar and Dravid have demonstrated their abilities to bat in the top order in tests, a challenge to your technique. Gavaskar was Ind’s key batsman and needed no shielding vs some who have traditionally shied away from such challenges 

 

Rather than worry about who is technically better, I could focus on the ones who can provide a better output irrespective of the technique 

 

I think subcon fans are more focused on technique, how a batsman looks when batting, etc., because their teams haven’t won much relatively so they have probably been conditioned to focus on such mundane aspects 

 

Guys who would not be rated high on technique such as Waugh have played quite a few fighting knocks under pressure and/or in tough conditions

Edited July 24, 2020 by zen

[Jimmy Cliff]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Guys who would not be rated high on technique such as Waugh have played quite a few fighting knocks under pressure and/or in tough conditions

He could only play such knocks because he was hiding at 5 and 6 throughout his career .

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Imo Sunny is India's best test batsman ever imo. Sunny,Tendulkar and Dravid are all technically sound batsmen.

 

However, Sachin had the slightly better ability to score runs off good balls which Sunny and Dravid would usually just fend off or score nothing of it more often than not. In stroke play aspect he had the better intent to score in test format than other two.

If you needed to pick a batsman who has to bat a full day to save your life, you'd pick Gavaskar ahead of the rest.

 

If you needed to pick a batsman most likely to score a good number of runs in 2 sessions or the full day, you'd have to pick Tendulkar.  

[zen]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

He could only play such knocks because he was hiding at 5 and 6 throughout his career .

I am not saying he is the best just highlighting some facts 

 

PS even he has played 5-6 tests in top order iirc  

Edited July 24, 2020 by zen

[Vickydev]

Dravid never had the perfect technique. His bat used to come down at an angle with his feet planted forward, making him play across the line a lot. This was heavily exploited by the seam/swing bowlers in the late 90s. He obviously worked around it and managed to make it work tremendously well. However once he got old and his reflexes waned he was again getting targeted along the stump line and was struggling. Just see how many times he was getting cleaned up later in his career.

Tendulkar on the other hand had THE most copybook technique. I get the feeling he didn't play too many ugly, back against the wall kind of knocks, which make you admire someone's defensive game. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

17 minutes ago, zen said:

I am not saying he is the best just highlighting some facts 

I didn't say you did. Just stating that he shied away from batting in the TO and was comfortable hiding in the MO at 5 and 6. If he was so good under pressure and in tough conditions why didn't he take on the challenge of batting in the top order where the conditions are truly tough? 

 

But no, he was comfortable batting in his cocoon at 5/6 and coming in after the opening bowlers were mostly done with their spells and the shine was taken off the new ball. And don't get me started on his shtick of "trusting" the tailenders. Time has arrived to cancel Steve Waugh as a MO and red ink bully IMO. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Jimmy Cliff