1983-2011 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 their tendency to tolerate these gutterbugs in guise of secularism is gonna comeback to haunt them. Just watch. it already has by going into iraq to get rid off mwd but it turned out they didnt have them in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 it already has by going into iraq to get rid off mwd but it turned out they didnt have them in the first place their tendency to tolerate these gutterbugs in guise of secularism is gonna comeback to haunt them. Just watch. Looks like you guys havent read the latest in "They deserve each other"--- Link Paki family, old father, 2 wives, 7/8 children, they tried to marry each other to get Brit citizenship and bilk the state for welfare money. cheated brits of 20,000 pounds by taking welfare benefits. They deserve each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
India-KXIP fan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Should have got the Eurofighter or not sure about the French fighter. Is the Eurofighter a specialist fighter or multi role like this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think the EF is more biased towards air to air roles, so after reading a lot more on the Rafa I think we made a good choice on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Its a pity we are choosing 4+ generation aircrafts, while within 10 years, PLA would be fielding 5th generation aircrafts, which might also be provided to our western friends. F35 would have been a better choice as it is 5th generation and significantly cheaper than Rafale and Eurofighter. We could have waited a year or so before finalizing this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The problem is we need to upgrade now, we can still get the F-35 later on after they iron out the problems etc. We are going to have a strong Air force, probably the strongest in our region, it's a good idea we aren't buying from just one country, good to be diverse. Maybe we can even get a light fighter like the Saab JAS 39 Gripen, we should also consider investing in a joint project with the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Its a pity we are choosing 4+ generation aircrafts' date=' while within 10 years, PLA would be fielding 5th generation aircrafts, which might also be provided to our western friends. F35 would have been a better choice as it is 5th generation and significantly cheaper than Rafale and Eurofighter. We could have waited a year or so before finalizing this deal.[/quote'] india will be buying, around 250 russian PAK FAs when they are ready. So no need for super expensive, under development f 35 when you have already allocated 5 billion dollars just in development costs for PAKFA/ FGFA program. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to order MMRCA because LCA mk. 2 would have been ready by now (unfortunately even LCA mk.1 is a year away) and we could have been fielding 300 of those babies, complemented by su 30s while waiting on the PAKFA. But if you leave development of crucial projects in the hands of these tea drinkers, delays are unavoidable. Without engagement of the private industry in concert with Military leadership (which they are so reluctant to do because purchase of foreign maal comes with under the table benefits), Indian defence industry is simply fvcked for the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 French are good for buying arms.They don't let politics get in the way.They will give you the best technology and their mother if the price is right.They don't need permission from Americans for selling anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hari504504 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The problem is we need to upgrade now, we can still get the F-35 later on after they iron out the problems etc. We are going to have a strong Air force, probably the strongest in our region, it's a good idea we aren't buying from just one country, good to be diverse. Maybe we can even get a light fighter like the Saab JAS 39 Gripen, we should also consider investing in a joint project with the USA. varieity is not a great thing to have especially when you are mostly an off-the shelf buyer..the logistics surrounding each of these aircrafts are immense and would only add load to an already under-staffed Airforce. I don't think the RAfales can be "manufactured" in HAL..it would probably only be "assembled" there Seems like we are moving in this direction ; LCA to fulfill the light combat role phasing out the Migs in a few years Su- MKIs for air superiority Upgraded Mirage 2000-9 and Rafale for dual roles PakFa by 2020 to replace the Sukhois as Air superiority planes. Hopefully some of these Rafales can modified to be based on our 3 Aircraft carriers when they come into service in a few years, right now I think the only one we have-INS Viraat is on the dry docks undergoing refitting. Gorshkov would come with its own set of Mig 29s.. our 2 indigenous carriers can meanwhile host the Rafale I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Good deal. It augurs well for the Kaveri-Snecma tie-up and some Tech transfer in that regard. (Kaveri is the home-grown Jet engine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hari you are right looks like India is trying to mix and match, but as you said that's not a good idea either. The Rafas are going to be manufactured in India are they not? After the initial 18? That will be a huge boost for us when it comes to learning from the French and updating etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hari504504 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hari you are right looks like India is trying to mix and match, but as you said that's not a good idea either. The Rafas are going to be manufactured in India are they not? After the initial 18? That will be a huge boost for us when it comes to learning from the French and updating etc? That is my concern too. HAL doesn't have the experience of manufacturing something as high-tech as a Rafale.. so it could very well turn out to be an assembly job, Unless private players like Larsen &Toubro,Tata come in and invest massively on the infrastructure..it will really be hard to achieve full ToT for Rafale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 How likely do you think that the GOI will allow private tech companies in? I heard somewhere that the French are also going to help us update the HAL facilities? Is this true?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hari504504 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Good deal. It augurs well for the Kaveri-Snecma tie-up and some Tech transfer in that regard. (Kaveri is the home-grown Jet engine) Turbofan engine tech is extremely sensitive stuff that countries take decades to develop... China took 40 odd years to develop one themselves after they couldn't get a whiff of it from any country.. hmmm I don't know if Snecma would part with the know-how that easily , although an agreement on parts supply can be reached I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hari504504 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 How likely do you think that the GOI will allow private tech companies in? I heard somewhere that the French are also going to help us update the HAL facilities? Is this true?? That really depends on our Govt.. lets hope for the best I don't know if the French are going to help us do that..lets see if more details on the bid emerge in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Brits are whiny turds. Here is another proof. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094610/France-swoops-rob-UK-13bn-Indian-jet-contract.html#ixzz1l5PAlrTQ These cvnts have the audacity to wave the 1 billion pound aid package (and they have been doing it since it was announced 4 years ago) as if they are doing us a favour after looting this country for an amount upwards of 1 trillion dollars (in today's figures) and 200 years. I'm glad they are suffering with the islamic bug these days. Couldn't happen to more deserving people. Briturds and Muslims deserve each other. jay hind. Such loathing. UK invested three times as much as France in India over the last decade, creating & protecting far more Indian jobs than any other European nation. http://dipp.nic.in/fdi_statistics/india_FDI_April2011.pdf Go back further, and you see the same ratio. http://dipp.nic.in/fdi_statistics/India_top_countries.pdf Further, the UK is historically the largest benefactor (aid or Overseas Development Assistance, if you like) to India. Over the last decade alone, the UK government has donated $5 billion in aid to India, comprising nearly a quarter of all ODA received by India. Over the same period, the rest of the EU put together, including France of course, has donated $1.5 billion. Please refer to page 8 of this document: http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/India-country-briefing1.pdf Yet, resentment against UK is rife among Indians because of its colonial history and because the UK has always taken a prinicipled stand in matters such as Pokhran, while France has been ever the opportunist, looking after its own business interests. If you want further illustrations, look no further than how France has treated its formal colonies- Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Congo, Ivory Coast, Gabon, Mali, Niger, Rwanda, Senegal, and Togo- reads like an A to Z of failed nations, deserted by France, left to destitute status. Contrast that with the way Britain has always stood behind its Commonwealth, home to some of the most prosperous nations on earth today. It never ceases to amaze me how people who are quick to castigate and condemn are also the most ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Such loathing. UK invested three times as much as France in India over the last decade, creating & protecting far more Indian jobs than any other European nation. http://dipp.nic.in/fdi_statistics/india_FDI_April2011.pdf Go back further, and you see the same ratio. http://dipp.nic.in/fdi_statistics/India_top_countries.pdf Further, the UK is historically the largest benefactor (aid or Overseas Development Assistance, if you like) to India. Over the last decade alone, the UK government has donated $5 billion in aid to India, comprising nearly a quarter of all ODA received by India. Over the same period, the rest of the EU put together, including France of course, has donated $1.5 billion. Please refer to page 8 of this document: http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/India-country-briefing1.pdf Yet, resentment against UK is rife among Indians because of its colonial history and because the UK has always taken a prinicipled stand in matters such as Pokhran, while France has been ever the opportunist, looking after its own business interests. If you want further illustrations, look no further than how France has treated its formal colonies- Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Congo, Ivory Coast, Gabon, Mali, Niger, Rwanda, Senegal, and Togo- reads like an A to Z of failed nations, deserted by France, left to destitute status. Contrast that with the way Britain has always stood behind its Commonwealth, home to some of the most prosperous nations on earth today. It never ceases to amaze me how people who are quick to castigate and condemn are also the most ignorant. oooops. You defend Britain because you are a psec who loves Muslims(even British kind), loathes Hindus and does not end his sentence with a Jay (whatever that means) Hind. Expect a lot of love coming your way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well the British do give us a lot of money in aid, but yeah they are a bunch of whingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Here is an interesting comment a web site about India's choice: Jack February 1, 2012 at 7:32 am The Rafael has a definite leg up on the F/A-18, and can compete (note when I say this I don’t mean equal) with the F-35. The Rafael truly is one of the best fighters flying and definitely has a leg up on a lot of American jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralCat Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Dassault Rafale Solo Display Sion Airshow 2011 Amazing video of the Rafael in action. :two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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