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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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On 8/4/2018 at 11:49 AM, express bowling said:

 

Thing is, when the ball swings this much, you don't need big names or quick bowlers if the batters have inadequate techniques and low will to survive.

batsmen struggle in such conditions despite having great techniques.  there is a lot of luck factor at play when it happens.

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2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

batsmen struggle in such conditions despite having great techniques.  there is a lot of luck factor at play when it happens.

 

The ball was swinging a lot half the time and swinging consistently at all times. There was some seam movement too.  

 

I would say the batting conditions were tough but not unplayable. Forgetting about Kohli and Root who are top batters ...  Curran and Pandya could battle it out because they showed a lot of grit and decent techniques.  Pandya was standing outside the crease to negate the swing and leaving deliveries too. 

 

I did not see this grit and thought behind adapting their techniques to the situation from Vijay, Dhawan, Rahul and Rahane.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The ball was swinging a lot half the time and swinging consistently at all times. There was some seam movement too.  

 

I would say the batting conditions were tough but not unplayable. Forgetting about Kohli and Root who are top batters ...  Curran and Pandya could battle it out because they showed a lot of grit and decent techniques.  Pandya was standing outside the crease to negate the swing and leaving deliveries too. 

 

I did not see this grit and thought behind adapting their techniques to the situation from Vijay, Dhawan, Rahul and Rahane.

 

 

Rahul and Vijay both good good deliveries in second innings and both were looking good.  As I said, it was a kind of pitch where you could get an unplayable delivery at any time.  Pandya too had a lot of plays and misses and was very lucky to not edge them.

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10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Rahul and Vijay both good good deliveries in second innings and both were looking good.  As I said, it was a kind of pitch where you could get an unplayable delivery at any time.  Pandya too had a lot of plays and misses and was very lucky to not edge them.

 

When you stand outside the crease, the ball has less time to swing. What batsmen miss are straigher balls which have less chances of taking the edge

 

When you play with soft hands, even when you edge, they have less chances of carrying to the slips or the keeper.

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Tendulkar never played Gough in tests. Caddick was an average bowler. Their 96 attack had Mark Elham, Cork, old Frazer and Chris Lewis.  Regarding this pitch, it was not a regular pitch and that showed in the scores.  No team scored over 300 which tells you about the pitch and conditions. It was a kind of pitch where you were never in and you could get an unplayable delivery at any time.  Ball seamed and swung both ways through out the game, at times ball swung despite sunshine.
Now We have a good attack so opp did not score 300.Earlier we used even on green tops we conceded 400 runs.England had a good attack in 2002 with Hoggard,Harmy,Flintoff and Jones also played a test.2007 with a young broad and Improving Anderson and Tall Seamer who did well in aus eventually.
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Rahul and Vijay both good good deliveries in second innings and both were looking good.  As I said, it was a kind of pitch where you could get an unplayable delivery at any time.  Pandya too had a lot of plays and misses and was very lucky to not edge them.
Modern Batsman Don't play swing or seam well .Rahul Kept Poking outside off and Vijay Left an Inswinger.
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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Tendulkar never played Gough in tests. Caddick was an average bowler. Their 96 attack had Mark Elham, Cork, old Frazer and Chris Lewis.  Regarding this pitch, it was not a regular pitch and that showed in the scores.  No team scored over 300 which tells you about the pitch and conditions. It was a kind of pitch where you were never in and you could get an unplayable delivery at any time.  Ball seamed and swung both ways through out the game, at times ball swung despite sunshine.

Sure, Tendulkar did not play Gough in tests. However, Caddick was no average bowler. Neither were Cork, Frazer, lewis average in typical english conditions. The english conditions of those times were typically bowler friendly, and as it is always, the native players perform a notch above their regular standards when playing in front of their homecrowd.

 

However, some of the other bowlers that Sachin faced in English conditions were - Devon Malcolm ( arguably the fastest bowler ever to have played the game ), Hoggard, Flintoff and even Allan Mullaly who was a left armer and used to get prodigious swing, perhaps more than the current english lot. In no way are these bowlers inferior to any of their other attacks. 

 

Regarding the pitch, such bowling conditions are very common, and nothing unusual when you travel outside subcontinent. This was one of the easy pitches team India has gotten in a long time. 

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25 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Sure, Tendulkar did not play Gough in tests. However, Caddick was no average bowler. Neither were Cork, Frazer, lewis average in typical english conditions. The english conditions of those times were typically bowler friendly, and as it is always, the native players perform a notch above their regular standards when playing in front of their homecrowd.

 

However, some of the other bowlers that Sachin faced in English conditions were - Devon Malcolm ( arguably the fastest bowler ever to have played the game ), Hoggard, Flintoff and even Allan Mullaly who was a left armer and used to get prodigious swing, perhaps more than the current english lot. In no way are these bowlers inferior to any of their other attacks. 

 

Regarding the pitch, such bowling conditions are very common, and nothing unusual when you travel outside subcontinent. This was one of the easy pitches team India has gotten in a long time. 

Devon Malcolm was an absolute ordinary bowler irrespective of what pace he bowled. He averaged 37 in test cricket with an SR of 66 in 90s where it was supposed to be bowling friendly. Same with caddick who averaged 30 in 90s. Most good to great bowlers averaged better than that in that decade.  I have seen England tours since 96 and England bowling was no where close to what it has been in 2010s especially at home. They did become good around 2005 with Harmison, Simon Jones, Flintoff but frequent injuries never let them play together and later Harmison also faded away quickly. broadandu is their best bowling pair in last 30 years.

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40 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Devon Malcolm was an absolute ordinary bowler irrespective of what pace he bowled. He averaged 37 in test cricket with an SR of 66 in 90s where it was supposed to be bowling friendly. Same with caddick who averaged 30 in 90s. Most good to great bowlers averaged better than that in that decade.  I have seen England tours since 96 and England bowling was no where close to what it has been in 2010s especially at home. They did become good around 2005 with Harmison, Simon Jones, Flintoff but frequent injuries never let them play together and later Harmison also faded away quickly. broadandu is their best bowling pair in last 30 years.

This present english attack is cannon fodder. Both Broad and anderson are towards the fag end of their career. I dont see any venom in their bowling, I think you have an extra pair of eyes to assess their greatness.

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2 hours ago, CG said:
3 hours ago, rkt.india said:
Tendulkar never played Gough in tests. Caddick was an average bowler. Their 96 attack had Mark Elham, Cork, old Frazer and Chris Lewis.  Regarding this pitch, it was not a regular pitch and that showed in the scores.  No team scored over 300 which tells you about the pitch and conditions. It was a kind of pitch where you were never in and you could get an unplayable delivery at any time.  Ball seamed and swung both ways through out the game, at times ball swung despite sunshine.

Now We have a good attack so opp did not score 300.Earlier we used even on green tops we conceded 400 runs.England had a good attack in 2002 with Hoggard,Harmy,Flintoff and Jones also played a test.2007 with a young broad and Improving Anderson and Tall Seamer who did well in aus eventually.

Flintoff  was averaging 40+ at that time.On the other hand Ben Stokes already has a good bowling average.

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1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

This present english attack is cannon fodder. Both Broad and anderson are towards the fag end of their career. I dont see any venom in their bowling, I think you have an extra pair of eyes to assess their greatness.

You have to watch game to see that. Broad is still just 30-31 and was hitting 140-142kph. Anderson may be 36 but you won't find a fitter bowler at his age. He bowled 21 overs in two sessions on day two without giving anything away.  He didn't take many wickets but pressure was there consistently in those overs. Especially in English conditions, Anderson will be a force even if he is 40.

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

You have to watch game to see that. Broad is still just 30-31 and was hitting 140-142kph. Anderson may be 36 but you won't find a fitter bowler at his age. He bowled 21 overs in two sessions on day two without giving anything away.  He didn't take many wickets but pressure was there consistently in those overs. Especially in English conditions, Anderson will be a force even if he is 40.

Ohh sorry, I forgot to watch any of the match. So silly of me to be posting here.  Forgot that only you have been watching matches.

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16 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Ohh sorry, I forgot to watch any of the match. So silly of me to be posting here.  Forgot that only you have been watching matches.

you have watched the game and still suggesting that Anderson and Broad are not the force anymore. In their own, they can demolish most batting sides. How much time went when they demolished Australia!

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17 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Pitch wasnt that bad ,it was all due to low clouds and humidity and sweating of the pitch,there was hardly any movement once the sun came out on the 4th day except for the 1st over.

 

And i am not sure that you need a high quality opposition either ,these ind batsmen will struggle big time even in county cricket,ppl like pujara have been bottom of the pile for both notts and york ,almost every county batsman has scored more than him and here he is eligible for ind.I wont be surprised if others meet the same fate as well if they try their hand .

there was consistent movement on day even under the sun. DK did not get out in the first over. Even the ball Pandya got out moved away after pitch. The ball that Kohli got out. How did Kohli missed it because it moved in and Kohli missed the line. Stokes also talked about that delivery how he was trying to bowl an outswinger, but it seamed in after pitching.

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So Bharat did not have anything to do with Umesh slowing his pace down in the 1st innings. Probably Umesh himself felt he would be more accurate if he slowed down a bit :facepalm:

 

"I can't really divulge details of the conversation we had. (But) Umesh is at his best when he is bowling quick. In the first innings he was more looking at bowling to one line. But in the second innings he was being himself."

 

The burst from Umesh helped India end a threatening 48-run stand between Sam Curran and Adil Rashid, and later put a stop to Curran's swashbuckling knock of 63.

 

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/103513/bharat-arun-pleased-with-indias-bowling-evolution-in-test-cricket

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4 minutes ago, Mosher said:

So Bharat did not have anything to do with Umesh slowing his pace down in the 1st innings. Probably Umesh himself felt he would be more accurate if he slowed down a bit :facepalm:

 

"I can't really divulge details of the conversation we had. (But) Umesh is at his best when he is bowling quick. In the first innings he was more looking at bowling to one line. But in the second innings he was being himself."

 

The burst from Umesh helped India end a threatening 48-run stand between Sam Curran and Adil Rashid, and later put a stop to Curran's swashbuckling knock of 63.

 

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/103513/bharat-arun-pleased-with-indias-bowling-evolution-in-test-cricket

I did post that one reason Umesh was bowling at less pace than his usual one because he probably wanted to improve his accuracy.The other reason i was thinking was he was probably having niggle though. Anyways, it is a tactic used by bowlers to reduce pace for sake of better accuracy, and that's fine.

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2 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Anyways, it is a tactic used by bowlers to reduce pace for sake of better accuracy, and that's fine.

Some bowlers like Umesh tend to lose their rhythm when they intentionally try to slow down and become even more inaccurate. Its best for Umesh if he bowls at his full pace. That's why he is in the team.  

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