Cricket_Hacker Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Hopefully one day India will become self reliant like China.Cant see that happening anytime soon though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 rafale didnt have a good performance in libya and egypt. swamy has threatened to file PIL if this deal goes through What is the proof of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerTal Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 What is the proof of that? thats what swamy said :dontknow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattaca Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 thats what swamy said :dontknow: Rafale has very best Air to ground and good air to air capabilities. we also have 60 years of defence partnership with France for mirage. The only reason rafale is not that talked about is because american domination and they made sure every one buys Fs which are not that good and also dont dont support Tech transfer to India. During kargil war france supplied india really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Hopefully one day India will become self reliant like China.Cant see that happening anytime soon though IITs,DRDO were started for this purpose but have failed badly. Only IISc is among the elite institutions in the world and having just that 1 world class research oriented univ in a country like India is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Aren't Sukhois crashing regularly nowadays? you mean mig 21's and 27's. Indian Sukhois are SU30MKI's some of them have crashed but the fault in the engines have been worked out. They will undergo super sukhoi upgrades with AESa radars and RAM coating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 thats what swamy said :dontknow: yeah but Rafales did well in Libyan conflict, In a single mission they do reconnaissance, air-to-air and air-to-ground. At the time of Libian conflict Rafale introduced its AESA radars also, now in India Tejas Mk2 will have AESA and super su30 upgrades will have AESA. I think Pak is working on AESA for its Chinese Jf17 and china will have AESA for its stealth fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 :winky: ✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ @writetake #PlaneMorning With #Rafale hogging all limelight, a Sukhoi pilot sent this stunner saying: 'We're around. Mind it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SELVAM Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Why Rafale is a big mistake By Bharat Karnad Published: 25th July 2014 06:00 AM Last Updated: 25th July 2014 12:55 AM Email63 Why would India buy the Rafale combat aircraft rejected by every other interested country—Brazil, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, South Korea, Singapore, and even the cash-rich but not particularly discriminating Saudi Arabia and Morocco? The French foreign minister Laurent Fabius’s one-point agenda when he visited New Delhi was to seal the deal for Rafale, a warplane apparently fitting IAF’s idea of a Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) in the service’s unique typology, which includes “light†and “heavy†fighter planes as well, used by no other air force in the world. Alas, the first whiff of corruption led the previous defence minister, A K Antony, to seize up and shut shop, stranding the deal at the price negotiation committee stage. It is this stoppage Fabius sought to unclog. France’s desperation is understandable. Absent the India deal, the Rafale production line will close down, the future of its aerospace sector will dim, and the entire edifice of French industrial R&D sector based on small and medium-sized firms—a version of the enormously successful German “Mittelstand†model—engaged in producing cutting-edge technologies could unravel, and grease France’s slide to second-rate technology power-status. More immediately, it will lead to a marked increase in the unit cost of the aircraft—reportedly of as much as $5-$10 million dollars to the French Air Force, compelling it to limit the number it inducts. With no international customers and France itself unable to afford the pricey Rafale, the French military aviation industry will be at a crossroads. So, for Paris a lot is at stake and in India the French have found an easy mark, a country willing to pay excessively for an aircraft the IAF can well do without. Consider the monies at stake. Let’s take the example of Brazil, our BRICS partner. For 36 Rafales the acquisition cost, according to Brazilian media, was $8.2 billion plus an additional $4 billion for short-period maintenance contracts, amounting to nearly $340 million per aircraft in this package and roughly $209 million as the price tag for a single Rafale without maintenance support. Brazil insisted on transfer of technology (ToT) and was told it had to pay a whole lot extra for it, as also for the weapons for its Rafales. But the Brazilian air force had doubts about the quality of the AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar enabling the aircraft to switch quickly from air-to-air to air-to-ground mode in flight, and about the helmet-mounted heads-up-display. Too high a price and too many problems convinced the government of president Dilma Rousseff that the Rafale was not worth the trouble or the money and junked the deal, opting for the Swedish Gripen NG instead. During the Congress party’s rule the Indian government did not blink at the prospective bill for the Rafale, which more than doubled from $10 billion in 2009 to some $22 billion today, and which figure realistically will exceed $30 billion, or $238 million per aircraft, at a minimum. But India, unbeknownst to most of us, is apparently a terribly rich country, with money to burn! Meanwhile, the United Kingdom, an apparently poorer state or at least one more careful with its money, is blanching at the $190 million price tag for each of the 60 Lockheed F-35Bs (vertical take-off, technologically more complex, variant of the air force model)—a full generation ahead of the Rafale—ordered for the first of the Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth-class 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers. The prohibitive cost of the French aircraft supposedly made finance-cum-defence minister Arun Jaitley apprehensive. He did the right thing, as is rumoured, of revising the order downwards from 126 aircraft to 80 or so Rafales. The IAF headquarters pre-emptively acquiesced in the decision to save the deal. However, if this change was affected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21 http://m.ibnlive.com/news/centre-scraps-20-billion-mmrca-deal-for-126-rafale-jets-for-iaf-lca-tejas-to-replace-mig21/539663-3.html Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21 http://m.ibnlive.com/news/centre-scraps-20-billion-mmrca-deal-for-126-rafale-jets-for-iaf-lca-tejas-to-replace-mig21/539663-3.html Huh?? :nervous: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21 http://m.ibnlive.com/news/centre-scraps-20-billion-mmrca-deal-for-126-rafale-jets-for-iaf-lca-tejas-to-replace-mig21/539663-3.html Huh?? Something fishy?? Almost all defence experts were against the Rafale deal.. Why did UPA spend more than 6 years deliberating on this & why did NDA scrap it in a jiffy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Any future Rafale jet purchases will be govt-to-govt: Parrikar http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=21859 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SELVAM Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 12.2 B US $ for 36 rafale jets r atrocious price. better to cancel this gov-gov deal also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 12.2 B US $ for 36 rafale jets r atrocious price. better to cancel this gov-gov deal also Where did you get that 12.2bn USD figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SELVAM Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Where did you get that 12.2bn USD figure? Read post 49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Read post 49 India's cost of aquisition is around 4bn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Brilliant. Namo put his foot down and told IAF dalals, invest in make in India or feck off. Now IAF has no choice but LCA. I doubt even this deal for 36 Rafales goes through. Build 500 LCAs by 2025 and call it a day. 25 billion infusion in domestic R&D right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Brilliant. Namo put his foot down and told IAF dalals' date=' invest in make in India or feck off. Now IAF has no choice but LCA. I doubt even this deal for 36 Rafales goes through. Build 500 LCAs by 2025 and call it a day. 25 billion infusion in domestic R&D right there.[/quote'] Do you know the status of the Cauvery engine ? Last i heard, we were unable to deliver the Cauvery engine due to our inability to cast high quality single crystal steel for the fan blades. IMO, unless we can build our own engine, it becomes extremely difficult to build a fully functional indigenous fighter. We already have world-class experience and capability in building electronic suite, radar and weapons systems for our fighters. We need to be able to build top quality engines before we completely indegenise the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Do you know the status of the Cauvery engine ? Last i heard, we were unable to deliver the Cauvery engine due to our inability to cast high quality single crystal steel for the fan blades. IMO, unless we can build our own engine, it becomes extremely difficult to build a fully functional indigenous fighter. We already have world-class experience and capability in building electronic suite, radar and weapons systems for our fighters. We need to be able to build top quality engines before we completely indegenise the process. Kaveri has been decoupled from LCA which will be using GE F404. From reports of Aero India 2015, Kaveri is upto 70kN. (but single crystal isn't an issue anymore) So kaveri has ways to go by 2010 standards. But it ain't easy. It is especially not easy when your Air force would rather invest in R&D of other nations than your own. Material Science is one field that Indians are decades behind the west. Neglecting it won't magically narrow the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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