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Vilander

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    Vilander got a reaction from Jimmy Cliff in ICF Interviews Rahulrulezz (Questions Thread)   
    Calisthenics. You would look better.
  4. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to vishalvirsingh in Speed and performance of pacers and spinners in important matches   
    what i like about SHOAIB is that 
     
    1. see his run up..its at least 75 metres. big long run up to generate rhythm and then throws in with full energy....thats the attitude a fast bowler should have, bowl with full energy. one can see shoaib bowling and even till the end of his career , he used to try his best. ..fast bowler has to put all his energy in all his fast balls ( some slower one's he can be a bit tricky).
     
    Our bumrah and shammi do bowl fast but only 2 balls in an over are kinda fast , other 4 are medium pace. Umesh is turning into an under 140k bowler now.
  5. Haha
    Vilander reacted to Straight Drive in Who was the most complete fast bowler of all time?   
    Most Pakistani bowlers without home umpires and bottle caps are like most girls without makeup.
  6. Troll
    Vilander reacted to Harsh Thakor in Who was the most complete fast bowler of all time?   
    Please come here ICF viewers Cherish your contribution to this topic.
  7. Troll
    Vilander reacted to Harsh Thakor in Who was the most complete fast bowler of all time?   
    In this analysis I am not trying to evaluate the pace bowlers on merit of statistics or speed but on basis of all-round ability and skill.Took into account speed,control,accuracy,movement and creativity in a total package.
     
    My most complete fast bowlers in order of merit
     
    1.Wasim Akram
    2.Dennis Lillee
    3.Malcolm Marshall
    4.Ray Lindwall
    5.Andy Roberts
    6.Glen Mcgrath
    7.Michael Holding
    8.Richard Hadlee
    9.Fred Trueman
    10.Alan Donald
    11.Imran Khan
    12.Curtly Ambrose
    13.Waqar Younus
    14.Mitchelle Johnson
    15.Dale Steyn
    16..Courtney Walsh
     
     
    Very hard to separate the 1st 3 with Lillee being the most classical but Wasim and Marshall the most innnovative,like magicians. Wasim was the best exponent in the art of reverse swing with the most subtle variations in movement and bounce.Marshall was the best in utilizing the crease and creating skidding bounce and in disguising the direction he would swing the ball.In the conventional sense Lillee had even more of a repertoire than Wasim or Marshall with the best leg-cutter,outswinger and bouncer  ,with marginally more speed and control but not as resourceful on unhelpful going.I plumped for Wasim because he simply took bowling art to another dimension ,even if he lacked the consistency and agression of Lillee and Marshall.Lara and Viv thought Wasim was the hardest pacemen they ever faced.Many old  timers ranked Lille at the top like Hadlee,Chappell brothers or Richie Benaud.Both Marshall and Wasim bowled better to the tail than Lillee .Overall Lillee was the most hostile and biggest trier,Marshall the clverest and Wasim the most talented.Watch a replay of Wasim dismissing Dravid at Madras with double reverse swing at Madras and at Melbourne in 1989-90 and you will understand my analysis.Marshall at Sydney in 1988-89  or ld Trafford in 1988 and Lille at Melbourne in 1979-80 v England should also be viewed.
     
     
    Andy Roberts and Ray Lindwall were a virtual shadow of Lillee being quicker and able to move the ball even more.No paceman equalled Andy's craft of having a slow and fast bouncer which bemused the very best of batsmen,while Lindwall was rated even higher than Lille by stalwarts like Fred Trueman or Tom Graveny.Andy had wider armoury than even Marshall with a very fine oustwinger,offcutter  nip-backer and slower ball .but could not equal his team mate's creativity .Lillee rated Roberts to be the most complete pace bowler of his era as well as Sunil Gavaskar or Barry Richards..Andy had the surprise element few pacemen ever did.Holding was quicker and as accurate but not as crafty or unpredictable.
     
    Michael Holding surpassed every pacemen in terms of effortlesness ,perfection of bowling action and consistency of speed through the air and has to his credit test cricket's best ever over and bowling spell.On the flattest of track she could derive speed and bounce because of the poetic beauty of his action with his throat ball often unplayable.At his best he was closest to the perfect bowler able to swing the ball in and out .When steaming in he reminded you of an antelope or a ballad dancer.Proved himself on the slower Indian pitches in 1983-84 where he captured 30 wickets.Imran Khan rated Holding as the most perfect pace bowler he ever saw with Mike Procter,Neil Harvey and Ray Lindwall  rating  next to Lillee and late Len Hutton ranking the best of the Carribean pace quartet.In his 14-149  at the Oval in 1976 he took sustained speed and accuracy in pace bowing art to a height never reached just like he did in the over to Geoff Boycott at Barbados in 1981 or in his spells at Melbourne in 1981-82.
     
    Glen Mcgrath was not conventionally fast  or moved the ball as much as the very best but as lethal as the greatest with his phenomenal control and bowling intelligence .He mastered an opponent's weakness more than anybody and blended every ingredient together in perfect proportion.No bowler reminded you more of the strategy of a chess player knowing exactly which delivery to bowl.where.Hadlee had as much control but not as deceptive bounce or movement.Mcgrath's bset spell at Lords in 2005 was as good as anything of even Lillee.Not at the top as he did not have such wide armoury or was as crafty as Marshall or Lillee.
     
    Alan Donald was speed personified but also was a master in moving the ball and outhinking the best of batsmen.He was ferocious with his speed of lightning but equally crafty with his thunderbolt bouncers or leg cutters.Worth redaing waht cricket writer Henry Blofeld wrote about Alan Donald in a total package,who rated him in the Lilleee class.
     
     
    Richard Hadlee was the epitome of bowling perfection bad the best ever on a green top.Bar Mcgrath none had as much control and in bis day at fast-medium in helpful condition she was the best of all pacemen.More clinical than Lillee,Imran or even Holding with  a classical oustwinger and as intelligent as Andy Roberts.Reminiscent of a computersied machine.Not at his best on fat tracks.
     
    Imran was the pioneer of reverse swing and at his best the best fast bowler in the world.No pacemen in his time moved a ball so much at such a  sustained speed.Not as accurate as Hadlee or as fast as Jeff Thomson bit in a total package  more effective.Unlike Wasim he was not so adept in moving the ball away from the bat.
     
     
    Fred Trueman had the heart of a ion and for his time came close to perforation as much as anyone.
     
    Curtly Ambrose was more relentless and accurate than anyone and create more disconcerting bounce from a godo length than anyone.No paceman could rip of the flseh of batting side in asingle spell like Curtyly whose bowling resembled a thunderbolt that set nine pins rolling.On a bad wicket nonone created such tremors to the opposition but like Hadlee he did not have such an armoury to be at his best on slow wickets becoming quite predictable.Not proved himself sufficiently in the sub-continent.
     
    Waqar was the fastest of his day and the best exponent of the swinging yorker.However not as versatile as Wasim
     
    Mitchell Johnson at his best was as lethal as Lillee and on bouncy tracks could even surpass Dale Steyn.He brillinatky blended pace,bounce and movement like in South Africa and versus England some yaers ago.
     
    Dale Steyn could reverse swing a ball at different speeds blending speeds with control and accuracy.Elective also on slow surfaces.
     
    Courtney Walsh overshadowed partner Curtly Ambrose on sub continent tracks and posessed more stamina than any great fast bowler.On his day his bounce could be lethal as well as his balls that moved away.Similar to Mcgrath in terms of bowling intelligence.
     
     
     
     
     
     
  8. Haha
    Vilander reacted to The Dark Horse in Post what ICFers are doing during the lockdown [ Pics only ] !!!   
    @velu posting on ICF and checking stock market.
     

  9. Troll
    Vilander reacted to Harsh Thakor in How great was the Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's?   
    The Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's towards the end was one of the strongest ever in the history of the game.In my view it was even better than those of West Indies and Australia of that time and similar to South Africa in 1970 with so many allrounders.To me the best batting line up of the last 50 years.

    The likes of Majid Khan,Zaheer Abbas,Javed Miandad,Wasim Raja,Asif Iqbal ,Mushtaq Muhammad and Imran Khan all together made it like a mighty army.Majid and Zaheer were supreme stylists.Asif,Javed,Raja and Mushtaq were the ultimate street fighters with the bat.No doubt Javed was also a great craftsman and Asif and Wasim had a languid grace in their strokes.

    At that time Majid was one of the finest batsmen against pace bowling while on flat tracks Zaheer was the best.Never forget Zaheer was prolific in Australia in 1976-77.Asif was brilliant in that very serise averaging over 78 with 2 centuries.Wasim Raja performed better than nay batsmen against West Indies averaging over 57.Mushtaq also had scored centuries against both Australia and West Indies.

    Wasim Bari was no mug with the bat while Imran was one of the most handy.No team had as good a combination at no6,7 and 8 as Pakistan with Asif,Raja and Imran.

    No team performed as well facing the great Carribean pace quartet in West Indies as Pakistan.


    I rate this batting line up marginally ahead of India's in the mid 1980's ,Pakistan in the 1980's and 1990's or even India in 2001-2005 or Australia in the same period.


    Majid Khan
    Sadiq Muhammad
    Zaheer Abbas
    Javed Miandad
    Asif Iqbal
    Mushtaq Muhammad (C)
    Wasim Raja
    Imran Khan
    Sarafraz Nawaz
    Wasim Bari (W)
    Iqbal Qasim
  10. Haha
    Vilander reacted to zen in How great was the Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's?   
    1981 but has Pak's line up of the 70s .... against a Lillee in his last phase .... all out for 62:
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to Straight Drive in How great was the Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's?   
    Pakistan has produced only handful of world class test batsmen like Hanif Mohd, Zaheer Abbas, Javed Miandad, Younis Khan and Yousuf Youhana. Having watched them all I would say none of them would make the AT  world 11 though. The lineup mentioned by OP was average but has been hyped here for unknown reason.
  12. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to Gollum in How great was the Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's?   
    Best ever.....
     
    Note: here '<' means by an order of magnitude
     
    Majid Khan<Sehwag
    Sadiq Muhammad<Gambhir
    Zaheer Abbas<Dravid
    Javed Miandad<Tendulkar
    Asif Iqbal<VVS
    Mushtaq Muhammad<Ganguly
    Wasim Raja<Dhoni
    Imran Khan was a mug with the bat in the 70s, so doesn't matter

     
    Above 2001-05 Aus as well you say, hmmmm nope. 
     
    Spout your BS in green ghetto, those fools may even buy your abysmal analysis. 
  13. Haha
    Vilander reacted to Gollum in How great was the Pakistani batting line up of the 1970's?   
    Look at the options @Vilander 
     
    Hyping a bang average HTB (plus home umpiring) batting line up as better than ATG Aus/WI, Fab 5, Smith's RSA, 2009-13 Eng...moronic thread. 
  14. Haha
    Vilander got a reaction from nevada in combined INDO-PAK eleven   
    why indo pak 11 ?
     
    why not indo zim 11  ??
  15. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to Real McCoy in Swashbucklers vs. Circumspects   
    He also missed gavaskar and shastri
  16. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to Gollum in Swashbucklers vs. Circumspects   
    Waugh and Ambrose weren't swashbucklers IMO, I would replace them with KP and Steyn/Akram. 
  17. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to Rightarmfast in 1976 bowling speed study   
    What a fall in 3 yrs that these bowlers were clocked below 150. Which means one of the speed machines was faulty. 
    About the fast bowlers list, you can look at it from any angle and Ambrose and Lillees would not match Dale Steyn.  Stats is like bikini, what it reveals is suggestive. But what it conceals is essential. 
     
    Marshall would be as good or slightly below Dale Steyn. Steyn would be almost as good or slightly above Donald. 
    When it comes to wicket taking ability and consistency, nobody matches Mcgrath. When it comes to sheer talent, hardly anyone can match up Wasim.
     
    Good consistency, wicket taking ability, aggression, more than decent pace - Ambrose. 
    In my book and in most people book, Lillee will not match any of the bowlers. 
  18. Upvote
    Vilander got a reaction from sandeep in Fcuk China   
    well like the world wars earlier this pandemic will also have a fallout but its not a simple world where globalization will end etc, smart money will keep looking of maximum returns, but there will certainly be stricter measures from govts on what is essential and what can be outsourced. 
  19. Haha
    Vilander reacted to Laaloo in Pakistani behind Bernie Sanders success   
    Lol laude lag gaye 
  20. Haha
    Vilander reacted to sandeep in Pakistani behind Bernie Sanders success   
    Some crazies have infiltrated the "woko haram" - that Somali brother-marrying chick, this Pak-American dude, and a few others.  Like anything else, their moment isn't going to last in the hyper-sped up social media cycle.  There is no need to over-react or get overly concerned.  Extremists on either side of the spectrum may get their temporary moment in the sun, but are bound to self-destruct - its inevitable. 
  21. Haha
    Vilander reacted to SecondSlip in Pakistani behind Bernie Sanders success   
    Bernie Sanders drops out of 2020 Democratic presidential race
     
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6793812/bernie-sanders-drops-out-presidential-race/amp/
     
    Looks like OP had premature ejaculation
  22. Haha
    Vilander reacted to LordPrabhzy in Pakistani behind Bernie Sanders success   
    He'll be behind Sanders' failure when he gets trounced by Trump... but i guess you guys are used to getting your ass whopped when it actually matters 
  23. Haha
    Vilander reacted to Stradlater in India didn't bow to American threat   
    Sandeep Uncle you were the one going on and on about hoarding HCQ a fortnight ago remember. I even bought it on your advice. 
  24. Upvote
    Vilander reacted to sandeep in India didn't bow to American threat   
    He's a snake-oil salesman - he wants to associate himself with solutions, or any sign of hope - proven or unproven. He'll move on to the next thing, and the next one after that.  But the sleazebag in him recognizes that people right now are desperate for something positive to cling to.  That's why the over-emphasis on this, so what if the science isn't proven, or the serious risk that he could cause problems by endorsing this so publicly.  That's not his problem, he only cares about his personal branding.  Rest is irrelevant to him.
  25. Haha
    Vilander reacted to Real McCoy in Picking Kohli Over Badri ended My Career - Vengsarkar   
    Both Badri and Amol played in a time when the fab 4 played. Badri was a little younger so he had a chance when the big 4 retired. But to dismiss this as CSK lobby is rubbish. When shastri gets to play, why not Badri. Don't tell me tracer bullet got in because of his talent. He was a chamcha for Sunnyji and he was included because of mumbai lobby.
    Stereotypes are there for a reason. A lot of northies blame Mumbai lobby, Karnataka lobby and CSK lobby when they always preferred their own. Case in point Amarnath preferred Gambhir to replace Dhoni as captain when he was out of form. Ishant was bowling tripe in that dismal tour and blamed Dhoni is not picking him. So Dhoni had to pick him and the result is there to see. He was the worst bowler to have played 50+ tests Did Amarnath complain about Ishant.
    These are the people who fault southies with playing the regional card. They should look at themselves first. They never look and start blaming others. They are probably the most socially aggressive people in India. That's why they get a look in. Only the crying baby gets milk in the dog eats dog kinda competition. Southies in general are stoics (not saying we are saints) when compared with the rest of India.
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