sensible-indian

Let them keep exposing each other. It will help Indian cricket in the long run. Kohlis legacy has taken a severe beating in the last few years. Rohits image has been seriously dented in the past month.

Massive injustice but what hurt his chances the most was that he was inconsistent in domestics post that drop. Once you make 300, there is a certain branding attached to you. So your domestic performances get noticed more easily. If he slammed some centuries there, he would have been in the reckoning. Doesn't justify his drop but pointing out that he didnt exactly make his case. And in 2017, we didnt have any leeches in the team. The downfall started later.

I am loving this. Let all the dirty laundry come out.

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From what little I saw of Pant's captaincy in IPL, he is a poor tactician. Yes, he can change and improve... However historically speaking, poor tacticians don't go on to become great tacticians. This is T20. Test is a whole different ball game. Strategy matters way more in tests than tactics.

More than happy to compare whole careers. Its just that the balance shifts towards Tendulkar more. Take a step back and look at it dispassionately. Yes, it's true we might be forgetting some good knocks by Kohli. But look at the knocks you listed: CT 2017 against SA, CT 2017 Bangladesh, CT 2013 SL In all cases, the opposition was bundled out for far lesser score. We romped home. These knocks are what you would call Ian Bell category knocks. Pile it on when team is on top but go missing when you need to BUCK the trend. In fact, Kohli's knocks against SL and Pak in random tri series are 1000x more prestigious than these knocks. Going by your yardsticks, we are actually discarding the GOAT knocks by Kohli while keeping these knocks that barely anyone even remember. There are 3 ICC games where Kohli bucked the trend and fought back. WC 2011 Finals - Valuable 30. CT 2013 Finals - Valuable 40. WC 2023 Finals - Valuable 40. All 3 knocks are RESPECTABLE but here's the thing - They were mere support roles, not main roles. - Tendulkar played a FAR superior 1996 SF knock but he didn't have the team to utilize the start he gave. Kohli had Gambo and Dhoni to take India to the finish line. - CT 2013 While that knock by him & Jaddu were useful, we were MASSIVELY below par. You know what won us the finals? Dhoni's captaincy, Ashwin & Jaddu's bowling and some good luck by Ishant - in THAT order. CT 2013 knock ended up on the winning side JUST cos the team was good. If Tendulkar had this luxury, his numbers would be sooo much better and I will prove it to you in the next point itself. - Kohli's 2024 finals knock is very similar to Tendulkar's 50 odd against Aus in 2011 QF (Kohli's was MORE tougher due to pressure of finals tho). In this case, Tendulkar had the team to close out the deal while Kohli didn't. BOTH these knocks were strictly support role knocks. Valuable but not match winning. This is the problem with Kohli. - Sank in important games during his prime (unless you count 2-3 games against SL, SA & Bang where we were thrashing our opponents and would have won regardless of Kohli). - Support role knocks in few ICC games Kohli severely under-achieved compared to his ability in prime. Tendulkar isn't without his flaws but dude is incredibly consistent in pressure games. His performance in WC knockouts 1996 QF vs Pak - 30 odd 1996 SF vs SL - great knock against SL 2003 SF vs Kenya - 83 against Kenya 2003 F vs Aus - Failed 2011 QF vs Aus - 50 odd 2011 SF vs Pak - 80 odd 2011 F vs SL - Failed This is ON top of a consistent run in WCs. Highest run scorer in 1996 and 2003. 2nd highest run scorer in 2011 (missed by a whisker). In CT, he was great in 1998 and 2000. 2002 - He barely got a chance to play coming down the order. We reached the final cos the team was performing. Failed against Zim which we won and failed against SA but was run out. 2006 and 2009 - he failed. You compare peak vs peak...or overall career....Tendulkar has delivered the goods WAY more often than Kohli. Kohli doesn't even have a single comparable knock in ICC knockouts for Tendulkar's 141 against Aus in 1998 CT and his 1996 SF knock. Then there's magical Tendulkar knocks like 90 odd vs Aus in 1996 and 98 vs Pak in 2003 in WCs - Kohli has NO such knocks even in the non-knockouts of ICC tourney. So in what world does Kohli pip Tendulkar in pressure games? He doesn't. If he did, I would be arguing for Kohli here. Kohli has the mental edge but he didn't deliver in ODIs like he did in T20Is (where he is the undisputed GOAT).

And oh I forgot the knockout against Aus in CT 2000 where Tendulkar and Yuvi scored and Aus got knocked out. That was one hell of an attack on McGrath who ended that day with the worst bowling figures from Aus. Just check how McGrath was bowling before and after Tendulkar's onslaught. Tendulkar went on record and said had he not attacked McGrath, he would have ended the day with some crazy figures. He was bowling thunderbolts (even Tendulkar needed a bit of luck at the start). Imagine having such a wide body of work that people forget IMPORTANT games. Stats and body of work support Tendulkar. But inspite of it, I am batting for Kohli as being better in pressure situations cos when set, he controls the game better than Tendulkar. But as for who stood up more in pressure games, no contest.

Ok let's assume your argument reg Kohli being a better pressure GAME player than Sachin is right. Let's look at the evidence, shall we? Let's take Kohli's PRIME in ODIs. It was insane. 70 average or something right? God mode. What were his performances in knockouts DURING his prime? 2015 SF 2017 CT Finals 2019 World Cup SF 3 high profile games where he sank without a trace. Completely worked over by Johnson, Amir and Boult. If you score a million runs and just go out without a whimper in the actual 3 games that matter...what's the use? Now shall we compare Tendulkar's performance in his prime (NOT even whole career)? 1996 SF WC - Dominated the whole world cup and scored against SL in SF on a brutal turner. 1998 Sharjah Cup - Took us to finals and won us the finals 1998 CT QF - That 141 against Aus in QF that knocked them out 1998 indepedence day cup against Prime Pakistan - That 40 odd at 150 SR which gave the momentum for an impossible 315 run chase in 47 overs (of course Ganguly was the star but Tendulkar played a crucial role) 2000 CT Finals - Performed against NZ (Ganguly and him scored after which India collapsed) This is EXCLUDING Tendulkar of the 2003 WC, CB Series performance and 2011 WC. Performances against PRIME SL, Pak, Aus in knockouts and against NZ in CT Finals..Look at the body of work (just half way through his career). Compare those 2 in their primes and it's a NO contest when it comes to pressure games. I fully stand by my distinction. Apply it across a wide set of games and you will see it hold true. There is a reason why Inzi is rated so high by Pakistanis (and others) as a pressure player even though he tanked in every WC since 1992 (even Sehwag called him Asia's best middle order bat in ODIs and yet his performances in WCs - let alone knockouts were so bad). So how come he is regarded (by many) as someone good under pressure? That's where the distinction comes. Pressure games vs pressure situations.

Yes but the amount of games he has taken control is also impressive. The tri series win against SL in 2013 was purely due to Dhoni's genius. His take it to the last over mantra is overrated and has caused many issues but still...he remains an amazing pressure situation player.

Leaving aside a few minor points (which i completely disagree with)...your post actually validates my point. Pressure situation vs pressure game

Nah. I never even talked about world cup finals. Heck, im saying tendulkar is a better pressure game player inspite of him not clicking in the two biggest pressure games.

I can totally see what this argument is about. It wont be resolved until you DELINK pressure games from pressure situations. A pressure game is a high profile game. A pressure situation can occur in any game (normal or high profile game). Sachin was a much better player in pressure games (in his absolute prime, he was a force of nature but talking in general). His powers clearly waned in pressure cooker situations. Kohli and Dhoni are undoubtedly better pressure situation players (Kohli has way better control in pressure situations but when he sinks in a pressure game, he sinks without a trace....same with Dhoni). We need both types of players for a well rounded team. I have talked about this before but dont have the energy to really expand on this with examples. But think it over and it will make sense.

The opener right? Harsh take bro. He played a crucial role when Australia was struggling to find good openers. Got his chance too late. Did well with whatever chances he got and retired. Good cricketer. Just checked.. 42 average as a opener. Good stuff.

We dont need 2 tier system. We need test series tournaments like LOIs. Say all teams flying to SA to play a series. Multiple games happening simultaneously (since demand for test is low we dont need to run one game at a time). This way you make advertising revenue via volume. Then teams meet each other in knockouts and finals. This way we can have multiple test tournaments in different countries. Will be insanely fun. Ideally if we figure out a way to nuetralize the toss luck factor, even better. Go for day night tests. For the time being, tests in subcontinent can be day tests to account for dew.

My friends brother was a Tamil Nadu Ranji bowler. He looks strong in real life (video doesnt do justice to how he looks). He was saying Starcs thighs are literally double the size of his thighs... Lol