Alam_dar

Dear @someone These are only a few exceptional cases and Muslim mindset should be countered and I myself encourage it. However, these a few exceptional cases again don't prove that Hindutva is in any way fighting for its "survival" due to the Muslim minority. This narrative is wrong, and it is the Muslim minority who is living in fear due to far right mindset of Hindutva. In simple words, I only want to warn and request Hindu friends to be on alert and not let Hindu movement slip to the far right fascist position. It will not in interest of all of us. Rather, make BJP a platform which provides justice and security to all citizens, keep it somewhere to the center (or even to center right) so that even all minorities can join this platform without any fears. It will be in the best interest of all.

There is a huge contradiction in your following 2 statements: Here are the contradictions: 1. Who stopped Hindu families to educate their children in their homes? They are freely doing Pujas and all other things in their homes and there is no opposition to it either from the constitution or from society. 2. If Hindus are themselves ashamed of doing it, then it is not the fault of anyone else. And it doesn't mean that Hindutva by force start preaching Hinduism in schools to minorities, and other who don't want to learn about Hindutva. 3. Blaming secularism for brainwashing Hindus is also a lie. Secularists are also not allowed to teach about atheism in schools. But the issue is, education spreads awareness and it itself starts questioning religions and religious practices. So, please blame education, but not secularists. Left Liberals didn't ascend directly from the heavens, but it is this awareness due to education, which made them to question religion and religious practices. And it didn't happen only in India, but also in Europe too, which was the first place where religion of Christianity and Judaism were challenged by education. And it is also happening in Muslim countries too, where these are mostly highly educated professors and people who are secular and becoming ex-Muslims. 4. And secularists also don't have any centers like Mecca or Vatican City. It even doesn't have any Mandirs/temples, or any money, or any gatherings like Kumb Mela, or any rituals or any religious books etc. 5. The reality of today is, the people are themselves attracted to secularism due to awareness and education. They are no more ready to believe in fantasy stories of religions, but they believe in science. They don't convert to secularism, but they just follow it on their own accord. 6. Secularism is not a western philosophy. This is a lie. It is a "UNIVERSAL" philosophy, and not limited to any area. Charvakas existed in India much before the British Christians came to the Indian subcontinent.

The issue is, humans are not 100% perfect by nature. We all have flaws. But does these some flaws mean we don't deserve to be alive and should be killed? No, of course not. We deserve to stay alive, despite our some flaws. The same is true with humans made systems. These systems are also not 100% flawless. But this does not mean we have to end these systems. No, but we have to keep them intact and keep on improving them. The UN is not able to resolve all crises in the world. It still has a lot of flaws, as it is extremely difficult to control countries with power and influence. But despite these flaws in the UN, still it has served HUMANITY a lot since its inception. There was no war in Western Europe for the last 75 years (otherwise they were fighting each other every other generation throughout their history). Destroying the UN wouldn’t remove global power imbalances, but it would just remove one of the few arenas where smaller nations at least have a voice, and where diplomacy can avert disaster. It’s a typical far-right (or extreme) mindset to say: “This thing isn’t perfect, so scrap it entirely.” They see flaws, then jump straight to destruction rather than improvement. The study may be correct in case of how Europeans are leaving their religion. It took them indeed generations to cover this journey. However, becoming ex-Muslims is our personal journey and it ended in not only leaving Islam, but having a deep hatred against Islam. It destroyed our lives. Our own parents and families don't want to have anything with us and they boycott us. Actually, there are ex-Muslims, who have been killed by their own families (including ex-Muslim girls, who were asking for help. We were only hearing their cries but not able to help them).

Apparently, there are many like Fatah and pro-PA supporters, Leftist and secular groups (like Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) are Marxist/secular Palestinian factions), and Civil society (like journalists, writers and human rights activists etc.), though most cannot operate openly because Hamas runs Gaza as a single-party. Opposition is silenced through arrests and intimidation by Hamas. But this is not the point. The point is, even if civilian population support Hamas, still civilians (non-armed) people cannot be killed or displaced. Is Israel any better than Hamas? PLO indeed accepted Israel's right to exist, but what Israel did? It denied return of Palestinians, occupied illegal settlements, declared them a part of Israel, killed and exiled Palestinians from their homes, and if anyone resisted, then Israel put them to death or in prisons. This is called State Terrorism, which is as bad as Hamas' terrorism, but the western world didn't declare Israel to be a terrorist state and didn't punish it by putting sanctions. There was no Hamas present before Israeli betrayal of PLO and taking more and more Palestinian land illegally. Hamas was only born and got popularity due to that state sponsored terrorism of Israel. Just like you today is of opinion that killing all Hamas and civilian population of Gaza has become permissible, similarly Hamas also thinks the same and use exactly the same logic for killing Israelis, including civilians. This assumption is not true. If that was the case, then not a single Jew had ever criticized Israel and condemned the Palestinian genocide. But we see millions of Jews, both in Israel in the US, who are bitterly criticizing Israel for this genocide and usurping of the Palestinian land. I again don't think that it is true. Among ex-Muslims, we have all kind of people. Some criticize Israel for genocide, while there are some who think exactly how you think, i.e. they never criticize Israel, but want Palestinians either to be killed or to be driven out of the Gaza and the West Bank. Israel/Palestine issue is a very minute issue. Most ex-Muslims went through the process of leaving Islam, which was a nightmare for a believing persons like me. And if we didn't need 3 generations for leaving Islam, then we will also not need 3 generations to do justice in Israel/Palestine issue.

This is an issue with democracy, where minorities use their vote bank to achieve their demands. But on the other side, a majority in democracy forms a government, and it is in a position of taking away a lot of rights away from minorities as majority becomes the king. In Indian context, Hindutva majority have made Indian Muslims a 2nd or perhaps a 3rd grade citizen, who are always doubted to be traitors, pushed in ghettos, and they are compelled to live under fear of Hindutva majority. Police and all other state agencies work according to the wishes of Hindutva majority. Context is very important, while India is moving towards far right religious nationalist fascism under Hindutva, and it is a huge mistake. Please understand, such a far right Hindutva fascist India is not only going to be hated by Muslims, but by the entire world in one way or another. And Indian society will become totally polarized itself from inside. The hatred, that is present in today, it is unprecedented in the past.

I was told that Hindus are our enemies, but even at that time (when I was a Muslim), I used to support Pakistani Hindus, while they were innocent and humanity is above any religion and nationality. Hamas may be the enemy, but not innocent Palestinian women and children and civilian population. Even many Jews themselves condemn Israeli atrocities and genocide. Why? Because poor civilian population should not be killed or displaced. ==== Your entire argument is, if one is your enemy, then the entire population of that country doesn't deserve any justice, and their killing and genocide becomes permissible, expelling them from their homes and land becomes permissible. For example, China is your enemy and it is very strong. Does it give a right to China to attack and forcefully take many party of India and bomb Indian women and children and civilians? This kind of blind hatred will bring only bloodshed and in this world, where might becomes right. In simple words, you are making that permissible, what Muslim kings used to do with Hindus when they were in power in India.

I don't think these things have to do anything with the narrative of Hindutva fighting for “survival” in India today. Although many Muslim rulers took Jizya, but I think Mughuls mostly didn't take any Jizya (except for Organzaib, who was a fanatic Muslim and who took Jizya). However, Himayun and Akbar eras were free of any such Jizyas. But the main point is, again this has nothing to do with the narrative of survival of Hindutva in India today. Please don't move to national religious fascism and do with Muslims what they did to you in the past. Yes, do control them and don't let them do things freely as in Europe, but a balance will be the best for humanity. These are not only Indian Muslims who are fearful of this modern Hindutva, but other minorities are too fearful of it, including Secularists. If Hindutva moves to far right, then it will only benefit fanatical Wahabi Deobandi Muslims, while Sufi type non-violent Muslims will lose the battle against these fanatic Muslim groups.

The core of your argument seems to rest on the idea that Hindutva is fighting for its "survival" while other religions are about "supremacy and expansion." But this claim contains a significant logical and practical contradiction. Firstly, it is difficult to reconcile the idea of "survival" with the demographic reality of India. Hinduism is practiced by an overwhelming majority of the population. In this context, how can Hindutva credibly claim to be fighting for survival against small minorities like Indian Muslims and Christians? These minority groups are not in a position to threaten the existence of the majority faith. The narrative of "survival" appears to be a tool used to justify a political and religious movement, not a reflection of any real threat to the Hindu faith itself. You also brought up the point about all religions not being the same, particularly with regard to preaching. However, the right to preach and practice one's faith is a fundamental principle of a secular, pluralistic society like India. It is a right enshrined in the Constitution. If some adherents of Hinduism choose not to preach their faith, that is their prerogative, not an issue to be blamed on others. To criticize Muslims or Christians for doing what their faith and the law allows them to do is a double standard. Furthermore, history shows that Hinduism has expanded and been preached far beyond India's borders, in places like Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia, often supported by powerful empires. This demonstrates that the act of spreading one's faith is not unique to any one religion. The claim that Hindutva is an underdog fighting against foreign-funded religions also doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The reality is that Hindutva movements and organizations are politically and financially powerful, with resources that far exceed those of Christian and Muslim movements within India. The notion of a minority community receiving vast sums from abroad to destabilize the majority is a narrative that serves to create fear, not to reflect reality. In conclusion, the idea that Hindutva is merely a defensive movement for "survival" seems to be a pretext. The actions and rhetoric associated with it appear to be about asserting a form of religious and cultural supremacy, rather than protecting against a genuine threat of extinction. The "bogeyman" of outside forces and radicalization is not being "forced upon" Hindutva; it's a narrative that is used by the movement itself to deflect from its own aims.

I understand your point about the natural human tendency to prioritize the concerns of family, locality, and country first. It’s a valid hierarchy of care. However, I believe there's a crucial distinction that your framework misses i.e. the difference between taking care of someone and upholding basic human rights and justice for everyone. Taking care of your family or friends means going above and beyond the minimum and providing comfort, support, and resources. It is a level of personal commitment that naturally decreases with distance. But the duty to uphold basic human rights and speak out against injustice is not a matter of proximity or friendship. It is a universal human obligation. It is the foundation upon which a civilized world is built. To illustrate this, consider your own examples. If China were to attack India, would you expect the world to remain silent, simply because they aren’t in a "friendship category" with India? What about the plight of Armenians, or the Hindu girls in Pakistan who are abducted and forcibly converted? We expect people to care about these injustices not because they are friends, but because they are human beings. My own experience confirms this. As a Pakistani secularist, Hindu families in Pakistan are not in our immediate circle. We are not obliged to "take care" of them in the way we do our own families. However, we consistently raise our voices for them because it is a matter of basic justice. Our efforts have even led to new laws and greater awareness. This was not done out of close friendship, but out of a shared sense of humanity. For me, the Palestinian people fall into this universal category. Regardless of their political standing or relationship with India, the concern is about a fundamental human rights issue, the injustice, and suffering they are enduring. Ignoring it would mean abandoning a universal principle that protects all of us. So, it's not a question of which category they fall into. It's about recognizing that there is a category that stands above all others i.e. the category of fundamental justice for all human beings.

The atrocities of HTS still does not give Israel the right to do genocide of Palestinians and to occupy the entire land, claiming that their God gave it to them as a birth gift. In fact, Jews and Christians and Muslims lived in Palestine for the last few centuries as very good neighbours. But then came Zionists. However, still in Palestine, Christians and Muslims live in more peace than Christians and Jews in Israel. Please watch this interview of Tucker Carlson with a Palestinian Nun and what she has to say about how Muslims and Jews and Christian lived in peace before the arrival of Zionists, and how Christians are treated in Palestine even better than Christians are treated in Israel.

Armenians began arriving in Palestine in significant numbers during and after the Armenian Genocide (1915–1917), when the Ottoman Empire (Turkey’s predecessor) carried out mass killings and deportations of Armenians from Anatolia and Cilicia. I don't know if anyone spoke against it or not, but I am speaking against it today, while I don't want any other such incident to happen as it happened with Armenians. If we keep silence today on such atrocities as we witness today in Palestine, then this circle of violence will never come to an end. So, this is not a good logic that we should not raise our voice when Israel killed even a Christian reporter by calling her a terrorist, while she was writing against Israeli atrocities against Palestinian children and women and citizens. Might should never be considered right. What is the endgame of this thinking? China will grow stronger, and one day it may do to Taiwan exactly what Israel is doing to Palestine. With even more power, it could start seizing more territory from India as well. Poor nations risk falling back into a new age of colonization, just as some, like Trump and his far-right nationalist supporters, have openly fantasized about claiming Canada or even Greenland. This is the vicious cycle of violence: the belief that “I am strong now, so I should impose the law of the jungle on the world as it is in my interest.” As long as this mindset survives, the world will never know real peace. Tera mera nataa kya? .... HUMANITY.

Al-Jazeera also had a Palestinian Christian Journalist, but an Israeli soldier shot her dead while she was also a terrorist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh Shireen Abu Akleh[a] (Arabic: شيرين أبو عاقلة, romanized: Šīrīn Abū ʿĀqila; April 3, 1971 – May 11, 2022) was a prominent Palestinian-American journalist who worked as a reporter for 25 years for Al Jazeera, before she was killed by Israeli forces while wearing a blue press vest and covering a raid on the Jenin refugee camp in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Upon her death on May 11, 2022, Israel denied responsibility and blamed Palestinian militants. However, it gradually changed its narrative until admitting she was likely "accidentally" killed by Israeli fire, but refused to undertake a criminal investigation.[8][9][10] The admission came after several independent investigations were conducted by international media outlets, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, and the United States Department of State.[10] Forensic Architecture refuted Israel's findings on September 20 and said Abu Akleh was deliberately targeted and denied medical aid after she was shot.[11]

On one side, these journalists are declared terrorists only for having a different opinion. On the other side, Israeli supreme court announced 26 illegal settlements in the West Bank to be a part of Israel (since October 7) + Israeli settlers and army have killed over 916 Palestinians in the West Bank, which has nothing to do with Hamas, but Israeli settlers simply come, beat Palestinians, take their homes, and if they resist, then Israeli armed forces kill them + According to the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), between October 7 and December 27, 2023, Israeli settlers carried out at least 367 violent attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank, resulting in displacement and injuries. Only two settlers were arrested during this period, and no indictments were filed. But still only al-Jazeera journalists are terrorists for having a difference of opinion, but Israeli state and Israeli settlers are not terrorists.

It doesn't matter if it is as bad as ISIS or Hamas, but it is still bad. Do you really not consider this fanatic right wing Zionism to be evil when it claims that it has all the right to kill and kick out all Palestinians from their country, while their so-called GOD gave this entire land to the Jews as their birthright. The lesson is, it may be these Zionists are not as bad as Hamas, but they are still bad. Religious nationalist movements almost always turn into FASCIST movements in the end. Far right Christian nationalists in the US (or even in the EU) may not be as bad as Hamas, but they are bad, they will kick out dirty foreigners (including Indian) out of the US and EU.

The issue is, fascist nationalist religious evils of non-Muslim world will not go away by comparing yourself with the Muslim world. We can see this evil of fascism where Christian Putin is attacking and killing Christian Ukraine. This fascism will make Trump to attack and occupy Canada and Greenland sooner or later. We saw the evils of fascism in the World War 2. Trump and other far right fascists consider Indians to be impure and dirty. Those were only Secularists who considered Indians to be equal humans, who in a way helped Indians to come and establish in the US. But Secularists were betrayed not only by Muslims, but also by other far right groups too. Civilized world, which was established after the world war II, is coming to an end. And now the era of "Might is Right" and "Law of the Jungle" is starting where words of far right people like Trump and Modi will be the law of the the country.