Sachin Tendulkar v Virat Kohli - who is better ODI batsman?

[goose]

I love how a winless knock spawns a dozen posts against player that apparently didn't win enough

Edited October 24, 2018 by goose

[putrevus]

What high quality bowlers did Sachin score runs, it took 2008 for Sachin to score a hundred in Australia and 2009 to score 100 in NZ.He rarely played Walsh and Ambrose or two Ws in their prime. So who are great bowlers which Sachin scored. He scored  one hundred in Aus,NZ and SA facing home teams.I am not trying to minimize him but this nonsense that he somehow faced more superior bowling is ridiculous.

 

The bowling attacks which Kohli faced in last two test series are far more potent than any bowling attacks on good spicy wickets which Sachin faced during his entire career.Kohli has improved leaps and bounds as test batsman also and there is no doubt he is  far more reliable than Sachin ever was during his career.

 

The only thing Kohli needs to do to cement himself as GOAT is win a world cup. He played a small but vital role in securing one world cup which Sachin won in 2011.

Edited October 24, 2018 by putrevus

[Muloghonto]

40 minutes ago, someone said:

Your point? Kohli is the standard of the best of ODI cricket today and he himself is in his own league.  Whereas Sachin had many peers in his league as mentioned. Likes of Ponting, Kallis, Hayden, Sarwan, Sanga. Sachin himself wasnt the standard other than perhaps longevity.

False. Sachin was in his own league too. 

If Ponting, Kallis, Hayden etc are in his league, then ABDV, Dhoni, etc are also in Kohli's league. 

Sachin, till his decline, averaged 48+ from 93-2010, in an era where everyone was averaging 42-43. Just like Kohli is averaging 59 in an era when everyone else is 51/52 or below.

40 minutes ago, someone said:

 

And if today bowling is so poor, why cant other players be close to Kohli? And it is not poor bowling but rather maximize batting. Today players dont allow bowlers to settle and do more innovative batting. Its a weak excuse if you keep saying a player scores more runs due to poor quality opposition.

today's bowling is poorer than in the time of Sachin. This does not make Kohli crappy in comparison to his contempories, it just makes his stats inflated in comparison to Sachin and everyone else from the 90s.

 

[Sujithmb13]

Before 30's it's kohli but overall it's still Sachin for me. After 2019 wc it might change. If kohli wins player of the tournament, he is the best. 

[putrevus]

I heard now everything Dhoni is in same league as Kohli. The only guy who is in league of Kohli is ABDV.ABDV is a victim due to him being very good in everything or he would be on par with Kohli .

 

Ganguly was not bad either behind Sachin in odis, Ponting's test peak was so far superior to Sachin. Ponting was averaging almost 60 after 119 tests which is not a small sample.Like many great players he hung on for too long.

[Muloghonto]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I heard now everything Dhoni is in same league as Kohli. The only guy who is in league of Kohli is ABDV.ABDV is a victim due to him being very good in everything or he would be on par with Kohli .

 

Ganguly was not bad either behind Sachin in odis, Ponting's test peak was so far superior to Sachin. Ponting was averaging almost 60 after 119 tests which is not a small sample.Like many great players he hung on for too long.

Err Sachin faced far superior bowling in his career than Ponting ( who never faced Hadlee or McGrath or Warne. The ONLY great bowler Sachin never faced is Kumble) and he averaged 59 over a span of 160 tests or so from 93/94 to 2011.

 

Sachin in raw numbers was as much ahead of his own contemporaries as Kohli is. Sachin simply faced superior quality bowling overall, so i will rate him higher.

 

[rtmohanlal]

it is really difficult and confusing to  compare greats across eras. To  sort  Viv,Sachin,Kohli in any order based on pure stats is as sense less as it can get.All have their  merits and demerits. In the end it shortens to  one's one general perceive ness w.r.t the pros and con of these batsmen. For me Virat still has to prove his mettle  a bit more in  high pressure situations.And no better stage than the  coming world cup for that. 

 

Viv,Sachin,Virat still in that order for me.

[Laaloo]

18 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I heard now everything Dhoni is in same league as Kohli. The only guy who is in league of Kohli is ABDV.ABDV is a victim due to him being very good in everything or he would be on par with Kohli .

 

Ganguly was not bad either behind Sachin in odis, Ponting's test peak was so far superior to Sachin. Ponting was averaging almost 60 after 119 tests which is not a small sample.Like many great players he hung on for too long.

Ganguly was way behind Sachin in Odis. Come on now. They were in different leagues. Same as Kohli now compared to his contemporaries.

[Laaloo]

The two new balls and the new powerplays in the death overs has completely changed the Odis in favor of the Batsmen. Every Tom dick and Harry is making scoring look easy. 

 

Even Sachin played many great knocks in the fag end of his career when there were no two new balls so scoring was not always easy after the 30th over. 

 

For me both are up there. If Kohli has one great world cup, he will be there for me.  Make that two new world cups since we only have three sides with decent bowling attacks( aus, saf, and padosis).

[Jimmy Cliff]

38 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What high quality bowlers did Sachin score runs, it took 2008 for Sachin to score a hundred in Australia and 2009 to score 100 in NZ.He rarely played Walsh and Ambrose or two Ws in their prime. So who are great bowlers which Sachin scored. He scored  one hundred in Aus,NZ and SA facing home teams.I am not trying to minimize him but this nonsense that he somehow faced more superior bowling is ridiculous.

 

The bowling attacks which Kohli faced in last two test series are far more potent than any bowling attacks on good spicy wickets which Sachin faced during his entire career.Kohli has improved leaps and bounds as test batsman also and there is no doubt he is  far more reliable than Sachin ever was during his career.

 

The only thing Kohli needs to do to cement himself as GOAT is win a world cup. He played a small but vital role in securing one world cup which Sachin won in 2011.

 

Games played by SRT against legit ODI ATG bowlers. Not even counting some of the other very good bowlers like Gough, Steyn, Akhtar, Morkel, Fanie DeVilliers, Bracken, Fleming etc. Just the undisputed ODI ATGs.

 

 

Games played by Kohli against legit ODI ATG bowlers. 

 

 

Clearly there is no major difference in the quality of bowling faced .

 

[Laaloo]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Games played by SRT against legit ODI ATG bowlers. Not even counting some of the other very good bowlers like Gough, Steyn, Akhtar, Morkel, Fanie DeVilliers, Bracken, Fleming etc. Just the undisputed ODI ATGs.

 

 

Games played by Kohli against legit ODI ATG bowlers. 

 

 

Clearly there is no major difference in the quality of bowling faced .

 

I checked some numbers from the time of kohlis debut until Sachin retirement. Kohli played 40 more Odis  and averaged one more run higher than Sachin but selfish Sachin has a s/r of 92.60 compared to 86.31.

 

p.s yes I know Kohli was pretty raw so you can't compare but don't forget Sachin was close to retiring so I guess you can offset both ways. Just take it for what it's worth. It's interesting.

[Jimmy Cliff]

2 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

I checked some numbers from the time of kohlis debut until Sachin retirement. Kohli played 40 more Odis  and averaged one more run higher than Sachin but selfish Sachin has a s/r of 92.60 compared to 86.31.

 

p.s yes I know Kohli was pretty raw so you can't compare but don't forget Sachin was close to retiring so I guess you can offset both ways. Just take it for what it's worth. It's interesting.

Tendulkar had a pretty insane second coming from 2008 until the 2011 WC. I had noticed that up until recently, his SR since 2008 was actually better than even the likes of Kohli and Dhawan in the 2008 - 2018 period. Kohli might just have gone past him with his recent 100s in terms of SR.

[Laaloo]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Tendulkar had a pretty insane second coming from 2008 until the 2011 WC. I had noticed that up until recently, his SR since 2008 was actually better than even the likes of Kohli and Dhawan in the 2008 - 2018 period. Kohli might just have gone past him with his recent 100s in terms of SR.

Don't forget. Tendulkar batted that way when he was selfish. Imagine if he wasn't selfish

[Nikola]

It's not just about great bowlers in sachin era but even rules, bats, pitches, grounds, facilities are changed. West Indies, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Australia were not that easy to score against that era. Most teams had 2 great bowlers and few good support bowler. Most important rule of 2 new balls which has made reverse swing invisible now a days is very big difference. Ball don't swing and kohli bats at 3 so no way kohli is facing swing bowling in odis too which sachin or other players of that era did.

[Nikola]

3 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Don't forget. Tendulkar batted that way when he was selfish. Imagine if he wasn't selfish

If tendulkar with strike rate of 86-87 was selfish then dravid & ganguly with strike rate of 71 were team players?

[Tendulkar1996]

Kohli,Viv and Sachin for me are the 3 GOATs of ODI cricket.Kohli needs to keep going for a couple of more years and add a WC performance to become definite undisputed no 1.

[Nikola]

I don't think Viv should be compared with both. Viv was just leagues ahead of players he played and against during his time.

[zen]

• Greatest ODI batsman so far = Richards
• B/w Sachin and Kohli in ODIs, Sachin is relatively more talented, while Kohli is relatively more impactful
• In terms of closeness to soccer teams, Sachin = Brazil, Kohli = Germany 

This is a tough decision. If Ambrose, Garner, Akram and Warne were bowling, who is more likely to get a 100?

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by zen

[putrevus]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

Err Sachin faced far superior bowling in his career than Ponting ( who never faced Hadlee or McGrath or Warne. The ONLY great bowler Sachin never faced is Kumble) and he averaged 59 over a span of 160 tests or so from 93/94 to 2011.

 

Sachin in raw numbers was as much ahead of his own contemporaries as Kohli is. Sachin simply faced superior quality bowling overall, so i will rate him higher.

 

How many tests did Hadlee play against Sachin and what did he do there??? Ponting dominated South African bowling home and away .Overall Sachin had better career but  peak Ponting was a beast which Sachin never matched.

 

I don't think Sachin faced any superior bowling attacks that is just a myth.The only series against Aussies with Warne and Mcgrath away was in 1999.

 

Sachin peak odi year was 1998 where he hit 9 hundreds every run was scored in subcontinent and Zimbabwe. This year alone Kohli scored 1000 runs in 11 matches with just two at home rest of them in SA and England. What Kohli is doing is Bradmansque which has never been done.Sachin is so far behind this guy.

[putrevus]

44 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Ganguly was way behind Sachin in Odis. Come on now. They were in different leagues. Same as Kohli now compared to his contemporaries.

Ganguly reached 10000 runs in 263 just 4 matches behind Sachin. They are in different leagues as batsman but Ganguly was not far behind in odis. Like Rohit is to Kohli now Ganguly was to Sachin then.

 

Rohit has lifted his game a lot and I would put Rohit in my All time India 11.And if Rohit does this for couple of years he will enter into ATG status in odis.

Edited October 24, 2018 by putrevus