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Sachin Tendulkar vs Steve Smith - Comparative Analysis

jalebi_bhai

By jalebi_bhai
in Cricket Talk

Who was the better overall batsman at similar stages in their careers (57 Tests and 103 ODIs)?  

58 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was the better overall batsman at similar stages in their careers (57 Tests and 103 ODIs)?

    • Sachin Tendulkar
      37
    • SPD Smith
      21

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Jimmy Cliff Newbie

Jimmy Cliff

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7 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

4 innings at no.3 ...10 innings at no.4 with 148 SR.. 6 times he was not out...He batted even #7 9 times. Rest #5#6. Its a funny comparison to Uttapata who was no.3 batsmen and never played at #5 or #6. You are trying very hard now.:p: 

Not as hard as you pal. Cute attempt to club the innings at 5 and 6 together after it turns out he has played half of his career at 3-5 :p:. Often with rather disastrous results for India.

 

7 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

It was reply to your obsession with MOMs.. Either you missed the point or trying to deliberately ignore it. MOMs doesn't show other peoples contribution in the match.. only one of them can be choosen. 

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11913/game/647251/India-vs-Australia-2nd-ODI-australia-tour-of-india-2013-14

 

This match for example... Virat 52 ball 100 was equally important to Rohit tuk tuk 141.. Rohit was given man of the match... On many occasions players have missed out MOMs like that. Won't look much into it.

 

No obsession. The MOTM award more often than not usually goes to the standout performer in the match. The fact that Dhoni is yet to win one in a decade long career highlights his incompetence in the format. Genuine match-winners like Kohli win these awards for fun because ...wait for it...they actually win games unlike Dhoni! Dhoni used to win them too in his prime in ODIs. Showing an odd game here and there in a different format proves nothing as we are talking about a decade long career with a sample size of 80 odd games. Of course you won't look much into it as there are no standout match-winning performances by Dhoni in the first place :((. Not your fault.

 

7 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

Dhoni batted at #4 and has a 50 but karthik doesn't.. your point ? Since its about milestone virus for you.. I am not sure what your last point even is..

That a TTF like Karthik who has barely played 9 innings for India was able to deliver a MOTM worthy performance in his very first game batting at 5 whereas Dhoni in a decade long career where he has 36 innings at 3-5 couldn't. Once again highlighting his incompetence in the format. I am sure if we had indulged Karthik for 80 odd games (which might not have been a bad choice as he has a better SR than Dhoni in T20Is) , 1-2 50s toh banaa hi deta. Samajh mein aaya yaan aur vistaar se samjhaun?

 

 

7 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

Missed main point again.. You are still stuck on your MOMs and Milestones that you can't see anything above that..  Indian players these days are selfless unlike sachin where he used to take 10 balls to get that 1 run for his 50 or 100.. That's the point and on many occasions Dhoni and Kohli got out playing big shot unlike  sachin who used to take his time.. slowly and slowly and slowly and I even remember a match where he took a run of last ball of the innings to complete his 100 where he didn't even try to hit the ball for six or 4 so that he could complete his 100 and ofcourse his team ended up losing that match like always... once again not talking about MOM its about being selfless which sachin fans ll never understand... 

Which was? You were lumping Kohli and Dhoni together which is frankly hilarious considering the gulf in the kind of impact that these guys have had in T20Is. And the whole rant about "selflessness" is a scam unless you back that up with specific examples from T20Is. Here, I'd start by sharing some of Dhoni's "selfless" knocks in T20Is.

 

2nd T20I (N), India tour of New Zealand at Wellington, Feb 27 2009

 

Selflessly scores 28 off 30 and stays not out when the likes of Yuvraj, Pathan and Jadeja were selfishly batting at a SR of 110+. NZ win on the last ball of the match.

 

16th Match, Group E (D/N), ICC World Twenty20 at London, Jun 12 2009

 

Selflessly scores 11 off 23 balls whereas Yuvraj, YK and Bhajji selfishly pad their stats by scoring at a SR of 130+. His selfless contribution plays a major part in WI winning the game.

 

2nd T20I (N), New Zealand tour of India at Chennai, Sep 11 2012

 

Selflessly makes 22 off 23 and stays not out. Kohli, Yuvraj etc bat selfishly at a SR of 130+ to reduce the margin of win for NZ to just 1 run.

 

1st T20I, India tour of Zimbabwe at Harare, Jun 18 2016

 

Selflessly allows Zimbabwe to savour a win against India by making 19 off 17 while chasing 170. Axar Patel nearly spoils the party by scoring a selfish 18 off 9 but Dhoni finishes the job. Respect.

 

16th Match, Group 2 (N), ICC World Twenty20 at Colombo, Sep 28 2012

 

Comes in to bat at 7 and plays the sheet anchor role selflessly by scoring 15 off 21 balls. Although it appears that Raina and Ashwin didn't get the selfless memo as they both bat selfishly around him at a SR of 130+.

 

Post the 2007 WC, he has played quite a few selfless knocks like these. Isn't it fair on our part to expect the odd selfish match-winning performance just to mix things up? The first 50 in 2016 was a good start although compared to some of his selfless knocks above, it was a tad bit selfish. Do you think he'd score another 50 in a winning cause by 2026? Or are we expecting too much?

 

8 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

Going by your logic it won't be wrong...

Agree there :hatsoff:

 

8 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

you can compare a guy who opened and batted at #3 to a guy who batted to #6 and #7..  Prob mongia has better stats than sachin if proper indepth research was done.. Mongia has to keep and bat where as  sachin is a very slow fielder who used to go to dressing rooms and sent in subs to field. Lets not forget he a flop in t20s and I remember a match in england where Dravid hit 3 666s where sachin was below average as always in T20s. 

What do Tendulkar and Dravid who played 1 T20I each have to do with Dhoni's decade long poor T20I record? If they had cost us as many games in T20Is by playing the kind of "selfless" knocks Dhoni has they'd be criticized too. Mind you in the only T20I that both Tendulkar and Dhoni played together, Tendulkar scored 10 whereas Dhoni scored a selfless match-winning duck. Btw, the Mongia comparison isn't as far off as you might think.

 

Mongia in ODIs scored 2 50s in 96 innings with 0 MOTMs.

Dhoni in T20Is has 1 50 in 72 innings with 0 MOTMs.

 

Seems like he was as "selfless" in ODIs as Dhoni is in T20Is :hatsoff:.

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Rasgulla Rookie

Rasgulla

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17 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Not as hard as you pal. Cute attempt to club the innings at 5 and 6 together after it turns out he has played half of his career at 3-5 :p:. Often with rather disastrous results for India

Sad attempt.. he played 4 innings at #3 and 10 innings at #4 with 148SR is apparently half of his career.. They dont won't even make 1/4 of his 83 matches.. :fear1:

17 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

No obsession. The MOTM award more often than not usually goes to the standout performer in the match. The fact that Dhoni is yet to win one in a decade long career highlights his incompetence in the format. Genuine match-winners like Kohli win these awards for fun because ...wait for it...they actually win games unlike Dhoni! Dhoni used to win them too in his prime in ODIs. Showing an odd game here and there in a different format proves nothing as we are talking about a decade long career with a sample size of 80 odd games. Of course you won't look much into it as there are no standout match-winning performances by Dhoni in the first place :((. Not your fault.

Can't get MOM for facing 12 balls in average.. it's like asking bowler to bowl 3 balls and expecting him to win MOMs.. Often he was left with Tail or he doesn't even get to bat on Pattas where others feast that's why that many No. Outs.. Another obsession if yours comparing a no.3 player like kohli and openers to No.5,6,7.... Wont look much into them because he was not out 36 out of 72 innings.. That shows how irrevelent your MOM's obsession in T20I is.. 

17 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

That a TTF like Karthik who has barely played 9 innings for India was able to deliver a MOTM worthy performance in his very first game batting at 5 whereas Dhoni in a decade long career where he has 36 innings at 3-5 couldn't. Once again highlighting his incompetence in the format. I am sure if we had indulged Karthik for 80 odd games (which might not have been a bad choice as he has a better SR than Dhoni in T20Is) , 1-2 50s toh banaa hi deta. Samajh mein aaya yaan aur vistaar se samjhaun

He batted 5 to 6 mostly as proven above.. So nice try adding #3 and #4 again.. Like I said how other performance was overlooked in MOMs..Sehwag has better score than him that day and better strike rate.. If he played that many games doubt he was able to manage that SR since we all know about his SR in Odis after playing that many games.. So If's and could's are nice to hear... So according your logic Dinesh mongia is a better player than sachin in T20I since he has better SR than him ? Atleast they have same amount of games unlike 80 vs 10 games comparison.

 

18 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Which was? You were lumping Kohli and Dhoni together which is frankly hilarious considering the gulf in the kind of impact that these guys have had in T20Is. And the whole rant about "selflessness" is a scam unless you back that up with specific examples from T20Is. Here, I'd start by sharing some of Dhoni's "selfless" knocks in T20Is

Pick and choose matches.. players can have offdays.. even I can find tons and tons of matches where sachin lost with with slow SR in Odis..  won't be hard atall

 

2012 A.C. is one of many selfish knocks..

18 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

What do Tendulkar and Dravid who played 1 T20I each have to do with Dhoni's decade long poor T20I record? If they had cost us as many games in T20Is by playing the kind of "selfless" knocks Dhoni has they'd be criticized too. Mind you in the only T20I that both Tendulkar and Dhoni played together, Tendulkar scored 10 whereas Dhoni scored a selfless match-winning duck. Btw, the Mongia comparison isn't as far off as you might think.

 

Mongia in ODIs scored 2 50s in 96 innings with 0 MOTMs.

Dhoni in T20Is has 1 50 in 72 innings with 0 MOTMs.

 

Seems like he was as "selfless" in ODIs as Dhoni is in T20Is :hatsoff:

That's what happens if your have a player who tuk tuks in top order.. pressure on lower order where they have to hit and in that process they get out.. Atleast he tried.. sachin was a known choker who always failed when it matters the most. EX : 2011 WC FINAL.. You are are can't be put in same bracket as Kohli or Dhoni. Dravid was a match winner even in that one off T20I than sachin was.. 

 

------

 

Mongia in ODIs scored 2 50s in 96 innings with 0 MOTMs

 

Dhoni in Odis scored  66 50s in 266 innings.. 

:Giggity:  I am sure mongia could get there If he played as many as Dhoni.

 

Sachin can't even compete with Dhawan in odis

Since you are comparing openers like Uttu to Dhoni and Mongia to Dhoni.. I can make a better comparison Dhawan to Sachin in Odis.. pretty close average and Dhawan has better SR

-------

 

 

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Jimmy Cliff Newbie

Jimmy Cliff

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50 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Sad attempt.. he played 4 innings at #3 and 10 innings at #4 with 148SR is apparently half of his career.. They dont won't even make 1/4 of his 83 matches.. :fear1:

Zzzz. He batted half of his career above 6. Enough opportunities to make standout match-winning contributions. He failed. End of story. You can keep up making cringe-worthy excuses though. Looking forward to your next comment where the excuse will be "oh no he only batted at 3 in 4 innings out of 72" :aetsch:

 

1 hour ago, Rasgulla said:

Can't get MOM for facing 12 balls in average.. it's like asking bowler to bowl 3 balls and expecting him to win MOMs.. Often he was left with Tail or he doesn't even get to bat on Pattas where others feast that's why that many No. Outs.. Another obsession if yours comparing a no.3 player like kohli and openers to No.5,6,7.... Wont look much into them because he was not out 36 out of 72 innings.. That shows how irrevelent your MOM's obsession in T20I is.. 

Can get MOTM when you bat at 5 and above more than 30 times in your career. The likes of DK Bose and Badri did it in their very first game. Dhoni couldn't in his entire career. Embarrassing. He did bloat his average with all those useless not outs though. So much for his selflessness and him going for quick runs at the end :phehe:.

 

1 hour ago, Rasgulla said:

He batted 5 to 6 mostly as proven above.. So nice try adding #3 and #4 again.. Like I said how other performance was overlooked in MOMs..Sehwag has better score than him that day and better strike rate.. If he played that many games doubt he was able to manage that SR since we all know about his SR in Odis after playing that many games.. So If's and could's are nice to hear... So according your logic Dinesh mongia is a better player than sachin in T20I since he has better SR than him ? Atleast they have same amount of games unlike 80 vs 10 games comparison.

You've proven diddly-squat. You first pretended he couldn't win matches as he batted at 6. When it turned out he batted at 5 and above for 36 innings you started adding 5 and 6 :hatsoff:.  According to my logic, what Tendulkar/Dravid did in their only T20I and what Sobers did in his only ODI are irrelevant due to lol sample size. Dhoni sucking for an entire decade in a format is relevant though. Maybe some day you'd get this logic. I wouldn't bet on it though.  

 

1 hour ago, Rasgulla said:

Pick and choose matches.. players can have offdays.. even I can find tons and tons of matches where sachin lost with with slow SR in Odis..  won't be hard atall

 

2012 A.C. is one of many selfish knocks..

Toh kar na. What's stopping you?  When you finish do let me know. Something tells me you won't though. It's just far more preferable and easier to pretend he batted like the way he did in the 2012 AC match throughout his career. :giggle:

 

1 hour ago, Rasgulla said:

That's what happens if your have a player who tuk tuks in top order.. pressure on lower order where they have to hit and in that process they get out.. Atleast he tried.. 

A statement that is utterly useless (a lot like Dhoni's knocks in T20Is :Giggity:) without evidence. Give us evidence/facts/list of games that his record suffered because of the so called tuk tuk by some one batting at the top. 

 

1 hour ago, Rasgulla said:

sachin was a known choker who always failed when it matters the most. EX : 2011 WC FINAL.. You are are can't be put in same bracket as Kohli or Dhoni. Dravid was a match winner even in that one off T20I than sachin was.. 

Dhoni is known choker who choked in both T20I finals. He also couldn't win us a single game in T20Is in a decade long career. Karthik was a better match winner in his very first game itself :p:.

 

1 hour ago, Rasgulla said:

Since you are comparing openers like Uttu to Dhoni and Mongia to Dhoni.. I can make a better comparison Dhawan to Sachin in Odis.. pretty close average and Dhawan has better SR

Feel free to do so. The whole forum could do with a laugh.

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Rasgulla Rookie

Rasgulla

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37 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Zzzz. He batted half of his career above 6. Enough opportunities to make standout match-winning contributions. He failed. End of story. You can keep up making cringe-worthy excuses though. Looking forward to your next comment where the excuse will be "oh no he only batted at 3 in 4 innings out of 72" :aetsch:

 

Can get MOTM when you bat at 5 and above more than 30 times in your career. The likes of DK Bose and Badri did it in their very first game. Dhoni couldn't in his entire career. Embarrassing. He did bloat his average with all those useless not outs though. So much for his selflessness and him going for quick runs at the end :phehe:.

 

You've proven diddly-squat. You first pretended he couldn't win matches as he batted at 6. When it turned out he batted at 5 and above for 36 innings you started adding 5 and 6 :hatsoff:.  According to my logic, what Tendulkar/Dravid did in their only T20I and what Sobers did in his only ODI are irrelevant due to lol sample size. Dhoni sucking for an entire decade in a format is relevant though. Maybe some day you'd get this logic. I wouldn't bet on it though.  

 

Toh kar na. What's stopping you?  When you finish do let me know. Something tells me you won't though. It's just far more preferable and easier to pretend he batted like the way he did in the 2012 AC match throughout his career. :giggle:

 

A statement that is utterly useless (a lot like Dhoni's knocks in T20Is :Giggity:) without evidence. Give us evidence/facts/list of games that his record suffered because of the so called tuk tuk by some one batting at the top. 

 

Dhoni is known choker who choked in both T20I finals. He also couldn't win us a single game in T20Is in a decade long career. Karthik was a better match winner in his very first game itself :p:.

 

Feel free to do so. The whole forum could do with a laugh.

Gave you benefit of doubt at start... Now its clear that you are one of those sachin chamchas :giggle: less said the better.. Nice to see Smith owning him already.. Like Dravid always did in Tests, Dhoni/Kohli in Odis and he was always useless in T20s.. cant even compete with mongia.. He can't even compete with Dhawan in ODIs talking about competing with Dhoni/Kohli LOL.. Put bit of pressure he will choke when it matters.. proved it time in and out 

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Jimmy Cliff Newbie

Jimmy Cliff

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Gave you benefit of doubt at start... Now its clear that you are one of those sachin chamchas :giggle: less said the better.. Nice to see Smith owning him already.. Like Dravid always did in Tests, Dhoni/Kohli in Odis and he was always useless in T20s.. cant even compete with mongia.. He can't even compete with Dhawan in ODIs talking about competing with Dhoni/Kohli LOL.. Put bit of pressure he will choke when it matters.. proved it time in and out 

I see that you gave up already :giggle:. Don't blame you tbh. Dhoni's record in T20Is hai hi itna atrocious that even brain dead zombies would stop defending it after a day or two. 

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Rasgulla Rookie

Rasgulla

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

I see that you gave up already :giggle:. Don't blame you tbh. Dhoni's record in T20Is hai hi itna atrocious that even brain dead zombies would stop defending it after a day or two. 

No point arguing with a guy with agenda.. comparing openers to no.5,6 :fear1:.. Talks about how a player who faces 12 or 13 balls per innings should score a 50 and  mentions about selfish milestones like his idol lol and defends tuk tuk innings like AC2012 which costs India matches for personal milestones and says how dhoni was a choker when he got 91* on the day it matters.. unlike his idol who choked in finals like 2003 and 2011. Should stick to posting 40 run knock in that video section and claim chocker as greatest of all time. He knew he would be found out in T20s thats why he chickened out from 07T20 WC thank god.. Dhoni was the captain.. apparently DK got MOM in 1st match then why couldn't sachin get a MOM in his first T20I?

Edited by Rasgulla
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Jimmy Cliff Newbie

Jimmy Cliff

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Posted
1 minute ago, Rasgulla said:

No point arguing with a guy with agenda.. comparing openers to no.5,6 :fear1: Talks about selfish milestones like his idol lol and defends tuk tuk innings like AC2012 which costs India matches for personal milestones and says how dhoni was a choker when he got 91* on the day it matters.. unlike his idol who choked in finals like 2003 and 2011. Should stick to posting 40 run knock in that video section and claim chocker as greatest of all time. He knew he would be found out in T20s thats why he chickened out from 07T20 WC thank god.. Dhoni was the captain

Teri galti nahin hai. You were backing a donkey in T20Is. You've made a smart move by refusing to defend his "selfless" knocks anymore :giggle:. But yeah keep cooking up new excuses. Maybe you'd convince yourself that you did a good job of defending a serial choker in T20Is :p:

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Rasgulla Rookie

Rasgulla

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Teri galti nahin hai. You were backing a donkey in T20Is. You've made a smart move by refusing to defend his "selfless" knocks anymore :giggle:. But yeah keep cooking up new excuses. Maybe you'd convince yourself that you did a good job of defending a serial choker in T20Is :p:

Defending a choker like sachin must be hard in general in any format..  Especially when you got tuk tuk innings in the middle which costs India many matches and losing 7 of last 12 100s cause he isn't good enough for modern day cricket of his tuk tuks that worked in 90s.. where he can claim others were bad.. its like putting Mongia and Dinesh in Bangladesh even they ll look like rockstars. Its nice atleast you are accepting he couldn't make it in T20 because he accepted himself he is no good and chickened out from first WC :drool:

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Jimmy Cliff Newbie

Jimmy Cliff

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3 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Defending a choker like sachin must be hard in general in any format..  Especially when you got tuk tuk innings in the middle which costs India many matches and losing 7 of last 12 100s cause he isn't good enough for modern day cricket of his tuk tuks that worked in 90s.. where he can claim others were bad.. its like putting Mongia and Dinesh in Bangladesh even they ll look like rockstars. Its nice atleast you are accepting he couldn't make it in T20 because he accepted himself he is no good and chickened out from first WC :drool:

No need to defend SRT who is a legit ATG in both formats. Dhoni is a fraud in T20Is as I have proved comprehensively. No wonder you chickened out. Brave effort though defending the indefensible :giggle:.

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Rasgulla Rookie

Rasgulla

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

No need to defend SRT who is a legit ATG in both formats. Dhoni is a fraud in T20Is as I have proved comprehensively. No wonder you chickened out. Brave effort though defending the indefensible :giggle:.

He was ok in one format but very questionable in another..He is no match winner won't even make top 10 list.. He would on top for top 10 chokers along with RSA.. I see you are now frustrated that you are calling greatest captain of all time a fraud.. your idol chickened out twice from captaincy because he can't hack it :Giggity: brave effort defending a guy who made whole generation a fool thinking he played for the Team than himself... :phehe: It must be hard for you to see how we win as a team since he was kicked out.

Edited by Rasgulla
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