Cheteswar Pujara/Rohit Sharma/Dhawan - who is best tailender outside Asia

[MCcricket]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

I'm doubtful about SA because I expect tracks to be spicier this time (revenge for them after previous series on spin tracks).

That will work for us as Shami, Bhuvi, Umesh can out owl the Saffers, even Pandya, we have a recent history of beating good teams on a spicy deck.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, MCcricket said:

That will work for us as Shami, Bhuvi, Umesh can out owl the Saffers, even Pandya, we have a recent history of beating good teams on a spicy deck.

we had a good batting lineup for some of them. here's hoping it will continue... esp HTB Pujara.

[mancalledsting]

Pujara didn't achieve a sizeable score in Ranji today, maybe he's just experiencing a run of bad form and therefore shouldn't judge him based on his recent county performances

[Tibarn]

On 10/2/2017 at 6:47 AM, mishra said:

Lol at thos doubting Pujara and his credential.

I think people have short memory. The series which probably is responsible for Pujara as a weaklink, People need to check scorecard too. Allmost everytime he walked in there was a carnage in progression. Every game our openers had failed to see off new ball.

 

 

So I am going t

Even a 30 average, as he has in Australia, isn't bad, per se.

 

This is just me, but I define a 30-ish average as an "average" average. 40 is good, 50 is excellent, anything below 30 is bad. 

 

Thus I currently only consider Pujara a failure in NZ and England. He was average in Australia. 

[Gollum]

[sensible-indian]

Has been unlucky this series. I will hav him cos the alternatives are worse.

 

I reckon he will play a crucial role in 2nd innings if we bat well in 1st.

[Jimmy Cliff]

That's pretty much it for him I am afraid. Rahane will replace him in the next Test. The intent wankers have won.

[Stuge]

He wull need to rotate more if he needs to score but more  abroad .... Doesn't mean you get runout just fir the heck of a single.

[adi B]

I would play him this full series but I guess rahane will come in place of him at #3 unless he plays a blinder in the fourth innings

[Trichromatic]

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	2011-2018	26	46	2	1996	200	45.36	3494	57.12	8	4	4	233	5
AM Rahane	2013-2016	17	29	5	1312	147	54.66	2431	53.96	4	7	2	166	7
M Vijay	2010-2018	21	38	1	1223	146	33.05	2838	43.09	2	7	3	157	8
MS Dhoni	2010-2014	24	45	3	1219	90	29.02	2179	55.94	0	10	5	155	11
R Dravid	2010-2012	14	28	3	1026	146*	41.04	2503	40.99	4	2	0	126	1
CA Pujara	2010-2018	19	32	0	886	153	27.68	2211	40.07	1	3	2	113	1
SR Tendulkar	2010-2012	11	22	2	886	146	44.30	1750	50.62	2	4	0	121	4
VVS Laxman	2010-2012	14	28	2	776	96	29.84	1648	47.08	0	7	2	99	1
S Dhawan	2013-2018	14	26	0	750	115	28.84	1302	57.60	1	3	2	89	3
R Ashwin	2011-2018	15	24	4	684	118	34.20	1274	53.68	2	2	1	70	5
G Gambhir	2010-2014	11	22	0	550	93	25.00	1395	39.42	0	4	2	70	0
RG Sharma	2013-2018	12	20	1	445	72	23.42	1028	43.28	0	2	3	41	10
V Sehwag	2010-2012	9	18	0	383	67	21.27	537	71.32	0	3	4	60	1
KL Rahul	2014-2018	6	8	0	376	158	47.00	728	51.64	2	1	0	42	4
SK Raina	2010-2015	9	18	1	343	82	20.17	696	49.28	0	4	5	43	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	9	15	3	335	63*	27.91	758	44.19	0	3	3	51	0
WP Saha	2012-2018	8	12	0	324	104	27.00	766	42.29	1	0	2	28	3
RA Jadeja	2013-2016	8	15	1	289	68	20.64	416	69.47	0	1	2	38	6
A Mishra	2011-2016	5	8	0	261	84	32.62	442	59.04	0	2	0	32	2
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2011	8	14	1	249	70	19.15	372	66.93	0	1	2	31	5
A Mukund	2011-2011	5	10	0	211	62	21.10	518	40.73	0	1	2	21	0
Z Khan	2010-2014	11	20	2	204	35	11.33	326	62.57	0	0	7	26	7
I Sharma	2010-2018	29	44	13	182	26	5.87	622	29.26	0	0	11	21	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2018	16	22	9	179	51*	13.76	265	67.54	0	1	4	21	5
P Kumar	2011-2011	6	10	0	149	40	14.90	159	93.71	0	0	2	21	5
UT Yadav	2011-2016	9	13	5	90	30	11.25	169	53.25	0	0	2	12	3

 

Good records:

Rahane: 1312 runs at avg of 54.66

Kohli: 1996 runs at avg of 45.36

Rahul: 376 runs at avg of 47.00

 

Tailenders masquerading as specialist batsmen

Rohit: 445 at avg of 23.42

Pujara: 886 at avg of 27.68

Dhawan: 750 at avg of 28.84

 

Undecided
Saha: 324 runs at avg of 27

Vijay: 1223 runs at avg of 33.05

 

Tailenders actually doing better than top order

Ashwin: 684 runs at avg of 34.20

Bhuvneswar: 335 runs at avg of 27.91

Jadeja: 289 runs at avg of 20.64

 

We talk about batting talent India, at here we have some of our best talents averaging in 20s outside Asia. These guys make Sehwag look like green track bully.

 

Vijay who is technically better averaged 33.

 

2 guys average 45 and one of them is not regular. 

 

Guy with best average is dropped for tailenders.

 

Ashwin and Bhuvi have done better, but one of them is not playing this team.

 

Surprisinly, SRT Dravid and Laxman at fag end of their career weren't as bad as these players at prime.

 

 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

List of all Indian batsmen (excluding wicketkeepers) who have played more than 10 tests outside India in top 7.

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
AM Rahane	2013-2016	17	29	5	1312	147	54.66	4	7	2
R Dravid	1996-2012	68	124	16	5895	233	54.58	14	31	2
SM Gavaskar	1971-1986	45	81	6	3868	221	51.57	15	15	5
SR Tendulkar	1990-2012	77	135	11	6247	241*	50.37	18	30	10
M Amarnath	1976-1986	24	41	1	1936	138	48.40	4	12	3
V Kohli	2011-2018	26	46	2	2011	200	45.70	8	4	4
VVS Laxman	1997-2012	61	108	11	4105	178	42.31	8	25	7
G Gambhir	2005-2014	15	29	2	1126	167	41.70	2	6	2
DN Sardesai	1962-1971	14	24	1	944	212	41.04	3	3	1
SC Ganguly	1996-2008	46	78	6	2925	144	40.62	6	15	5
PR Umrigar	1952-1962	18	34	2	1246	172*	38.93	4	7	2
GR Viswanath	1971-1982	34	61	3	2195	114	37.84	3	18	4
MAK Pataudi	1962-1968	13	25	0	943	148	37.72	1	7	2
VS Hazare	1946-1953	17	32	2	1079	145	35.96	2	5	2
V Sehwag	2001-2012	35	64	1	2247	195	35.66	5	7	8
RJ Shastri	1981-1992	29	44	4	1371	206	34.27	5	1	4
M Azharuddin	1985-1999	40	60	3	1924	192	33.75	6	6	1
RF Surti	1962-1968	13	25	1	805	99	33.54	0	6	2
M Vijay	2010-2018	21	38	1	1232	146	33.29	2	7	3
DB Vengsarkar	1976-1992	48	82	6	2463	157	32.40	4	13	8
MH Mankad	1946-1953	15	25	1	777	184	32.37	3	3	4
CPS Chauhan	1977-1981	14	25	0	796	97	31.84	0	6	3
ED Solkar	1971-1976	12	17	3	430	67	30.71	0	4	0
AL Wadekar	1967-1974	22	41	1	1219	143	30.47	1	8	3
SV Manjrekar	1989-1996	23	38	3	1042	108	29.77	2	3	2
M Prabhakar	1990-1993	10	14	1	385	95	29.61	0	3	1
W Jaffer	2002-2008	18	34	0	1006	212	29.58	2	7	4
K Srikkanth	1985-1992	10	18	0	531	116	29.50	1	2	2
S Dhawan	2013-2018	14	26	0	750	115	28.84	1	3	2
CA Pujara	2010-2018	18	32	0	886	153	27.68	1	3	2
N Kapil Dev	1979-1994	35	44	3	1098	129	26.78	2	5	5
NS Sidhu	1989-1999	19	32	1	826	201	26.64	2	2	7
BP Patel	1974-1977	10	17	3	372	115*	26.57	1	1	0
CG Borde	1959-1968	19	34	3	776	93	25.03	0	6	6
P Roy	1952-1959	13	25	0	616	150	24.64	1	2	8
AD Gaekwad	1976-1983	11	20	2	438	81*	24.33	0	3	1
Yashpal Sharma	1979-1983	15	26	4	525	63	23.86	0	2	1
RG Sharma	2013-2018	12	20	1	445	72	23.42	0	2	3
AV Mankad	1971-1978	10	19	1	398	53*	22.11	0	1	1
S Abid Ali	1967-1974	13	23	1	482	81	21.90	0	2	0
VL Manjrekar	1952-1962	14	27	1	556	133	21.38	1	2	5
Yuvraj Singh	2005-2011	12	20	2	353	62	19.61	0	2	4
ML Jaisimha	1959-1971	14	26	2	441	101	18.37	1	1	4

 

 

Have to say we are producing weakest set of batsmen in history of Indian cricket.

 

[Straight Drive]

The options are worse. Would be interested to know average of Vijay, Shikhar and Rahul as well. 

[rtmohanlal]

a player who is assigned with the least amount of 'workload ,skill sets across formats & necessity to adjust' because of playing only one format.Occupying one of the most vital spots in tests. Yet he fails time and again which emphatically affects the fortunes of the team  in abroad conditions.Dropping him for ever is the need of the hour.

[sensible-indian]

Vijay undecided for you?

 

With all due respect, get your head out of stats.

 

Stats are a useful tool to help us interpret performances more accurately. They are not the be all and end all tool.

 

Plus for Vijay, an important KPI is how many balls he stays and how well he blunts attack.

Edited January 14, 2018 by sensible-indian

[Turning_track]

Great post @Trichromatic

Pujara's test record in overseas tests is very poor, that too being a test regular.

We have got passengers not only in LOIs team but also in our test team too.

[Straight Drive]

When Chet is viewed entirely on basis of stats why should not Vijay, Shikhar and Rahul be judged on same parameters?

[zen]

There is no doubt that most of our batsmen have to do well outside Ind / Asia but presenting problems without solutions is pointless. Vijay, Pujara, etc are among our best test batsmen currently. And have shown flashes of brilliance. It would also be that some adjustments mentally are required 

 

It is probably like you are used driving on the right side of the road, then you have to drive on the left side where things appear different. Some adjustments mentally have to be made to drive as effectively

 

Also when playing in India for e.g many of the key bowlers from the oppositions are rendered ineffective relatively speaking due to pitch. In their home conditions, many of these bowlers are also at their best because of favourable conditions. So it is double trouble

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by zen

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, Straight Drive said:

When Chet is viewed entirely on basis of stats why should not Vijay, Shikhar and Rahul be judged on same parameters?

Everyone's numbers are there in the post.

[Straight Drive]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Everyone's numbers are there in the post.

I see. However i would not go entirely on basis of statistics, when the difference is of 5 runs. 

For met Chet is the best test match player out of Rahul, Vijay and Shikhar

 

Reasons:

1. Chet has appetite for big runs. He converts 100 into 200+ scores in Asia whereas others do not convert their tons into double hundreds.

 

2. Chet works upon his game by playing county cricket whereas others have not shown similar approach.  

 

3. Chet is temperamentally strong, waits a lot longer for bad balls than others, all his scoring shots are down the ground. hardly the ball travels in air for 10 foot or more.

 

 

Yes, his selective average outside Asia is few runs lesser, however i will always have him ahead of those 3. 

 

[Gollum]

@Trichromatic It will be better if you remove WI  stats from the table because many have boosted their stats there. When people criticize Ashwin they fail to take into account his tremendous WI exploits, I don't think it is fair to have one parameter for bowlers and another for batsmen. I am only interested in 4 countries: SA, Eng, Aus, NZ.