Cheteswar Pujara/Rohit Sharma/Dhawan - who is best tailender outside Asia

[kira]

One of the most overrated batsman

[Pollack]

14 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Vijay undecided for you?

 

With all due respect, get your head out of stats.

 

Stats are a useful tool to help us interpret performances more accurately. They are not the be all and end all tool.

 

Plus for Vijay, an important KPI is how many balls he stays and how well he blunts attack.

 No trolling but Vijay is massively over rated. Don't get me wrong he would still be in my team without any hesitation because we need to have atleast one player who has a tight off stump game and also being an opener he is valuable. 

[zen]

Many of these threads are like we need a new car based on how the current car is performing. But a decent new car would start from say $50k and we neither have the amount on hand, nor the monthly budget to take it on instalment 

 

 

[Tattieboy]

27 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Vijay undecided for you?

 

With all due respect, get your head out of stats.

 

Stats are a useful tool to help us interpret performances more accurately. They are not the be all and end all tool.

 

Plus for Vijay, an important KPI is how many balls he stays and how well he blunts attack.

Stats are used on here in all shapes and form to " prove" an Indian is/ was better than someone from overseas.  They are also used for Indian against Indian but not to show an Indian's weakness outside Asia ?

[Gollum]

Record since our Eng tour after 2011 WC. Only includes stats from NZ, Eng, Aus and SA. 

[Turning_track]

7 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Record since our Eng tour after 2011 WC. Only includes stats from NZ, Eng, Aus and SA. 

That avg of 29.37 against these 4 teams is extremely poor for Pujara that too being a test specialist.

If he fails again & again, he should be dropped. I'm telling that being pro-Pujara  and despite of him blunting the danger of new ball. He needs to bring runs in his belt. 793 runs in 27 innings doesn't justify his ability at all.

[rtmohanlal]

i think Indian team management needs to get rid of this 'anchor grafter role   for the one down spot mentality'.Just because Rahul Dravid became  successful in that spot doesn't mean every batsman in that position needs to be like that.Even Dravid was not a complete batsman.And the plus point w.r.t Dravid was that, when he was on song when the conditions and the bowling attack suited his style of play, he made that count immensely that benefitted the team the most.And it is not at all easy to find another Dravid type of player.So a left hander  with attractive stroke play to some level of effectiveness as that of 'Lara or Sanga' or  a 'Ponting type right hander with even 70% effectiveness' is all that is required for that spot.Pujara is far off from that mark.

[Trichromatic]

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
AM Rahane	2013-2016	17	29	5	1312	147	54.66	2431	53.96	4	7	2	166	7
KL Rahul	2014-2018	6	8	0	376	158	47.00	728	51.64	2	1	0	42	4
V Kohli	2011-2018	26	46	2	2039	200	46.34	3571	57.09	8	5	4	236	5
SR Tendulkar	2010-2012	11	22	2	886	146	44.30	1750	50.62	2	4	0	121	4
R Dravid	2010-2012	14	28	3	1026	146*	41.04	2503	40.99	4	2	0	126	1
R Ashwin	2011-2018	15	24	4	684	118	34.20	1274	53.68	2	2	1	70	5
M Vijay	2010-2018	21	38	0	1247	146	32.81	2911	42.83	2	7	3	160	8
A Mishra	2011-2016	5	8	0	261	84	32.62	442	59.04	0	2	0	32	2
VVS Laxman	2010-2012	14	28	2	776	96	29.84	1648	47.08	0	7	2	99	1
MS Dhoni	2010-2014	24	45	3	1219	90	29.02	2179	55.94	0	10	5	155	11
S Dhawan	2013-2018	14	26	0	750	115	28.84	1302	57.60	1	3	2	89	3
B Kumar	2014-2018	9	15	3	335	63*	27.91	758	44.19	0	3	3	51	0
CA Pujara	2010-2018	19	32	0	886	153	27.68	2211	40.07	1	3	2	113	1
WP Saha	2012-2018	8	12	0	324	104	27.00	766	42.29	1	0	2	28	3
G Gambhir	2010-2014	11	22	0	550	93	25.00	1395	39.42	0	4	2	70	0
RG Sharma	2013-2018	12	21	1	455	72	22.75	1055	43.12	0	2	3	43	10
V Sehwag	2010-2012	9	18	0	383	67	21.27	537	71.32	0	3	4	60	1
A Mukund	2011-2011	5	10	0	211	62	21.10	518	40.73	0	1	2	21	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2016	8	15	1	289	68	20.64	416	69.47	0	1	2	38	6
SK Raina	2010-2015	9	18	1	343	82	20.17	696	49.28	0	4	5	43	0
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2011	8	14	1	249	70	19.15	372	66.93	0	1	2	31	5
P Kumar	2011-2011	6	10	0	149	40	14.90	159	93.71	0	0	2	21	5
Mohammed Shami	2013-2018	16	22	9	179	51*	13.76	265	67.54	0	1	4	21	5
Z Khan	2010-2014	11	20	2	204	35	11.33	326	62.57	0	0	7	26	7
UT Yadav	2011-2016	9	13	5	90	30	11.25	169	53.25	0	0	2	12	3
I Sharma	2010-2018	29	44	13	182	26	5.87	622	29.26	0	0	11	21	0
S Sreesanth	2010-2011	6	11	4	25	7*	3.57	76	32.89	0	0	4	4	0

 

Rohit Sharma - easily worst batsman from current team to play 10 oversesas tests for India.

 

[Texan]

Last 4 years average is even worse at 23.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=4;host=5;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Jan+2014;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Many of these threads are like we need a new car based on how the current car is performing. But a decent new car would start from say $50k and we neither have the amount on hand, nor the monthly budget to take it on instalment 

 

 

But without exploring market how would you know that new car is going to cost more. 

The amount you are spending in repairs is probably as high as paying for a new and possibly better car.

 

You're saying that there is not even a single batsman in India who can average 30+ outside Asia?

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

But without exploring market how would you know that new car is going to cost more. 

The amount you are spending in repairs is probably as high as paying for a new and possibly better car.

 

You're saying that there is not even a single batsman in India who can average 30+ outside Asia?

Even Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Pandya who have very modest domestic records showed that they can bat better than these top order guys.

[BeautifulGame]

Pujara is like that tailender who comes  as night watchman  

 

Dhawan is like the tailender who tries to slog everything blindly aka Tino Best

 

Rohit is Chris Martin

 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

But without exploring market how would you know that new car is going to cost more. 

The amount you are spending in repairs is probably as high as paying for a new and possibly better car.

 

You're saying that there is not even a single batsman in India who can average 30+ outside Asia?

We can replace Dhawan and Rohit with Rahul and Rahane. There is nothing much that can be done at the moment 

 

If there are such batsmen waiting in the wings, there performances should be available through A tours. LOI performances should not be confused with requirements for tests 

 

If we are winning handsomely in Ind, the car is running well. History suggests that we have been struggling overseas since we started playing cricket so we have to drive changes considering the impact in the long term, which means developing good bowlers as well 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, zen said:

We can replace Dhawan and Rohit with Rahul and Rahane. There is nothing much that can be done at the moment 

 

If there are such batsmen waiting in the wings, there performances should be available through A tours. LOI performances should not be confused with requirements for tests 

 

If we are winning handsomely in Ind, the car is running well. History suggests that we have been struggling overseas since we started playing cricket so we have to drive changes considering the impact in the long term, which means developing good bowlers as well 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

History sugggests these are worst set of IIndian batsman outside Asia.

 

 

[zen]

Also it is a misconception to suggest that if tailenders averaged more in certain conditions, the top order should average more as if tailenders batted in top order, they could avg much less and vice versa

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

History sugggests these are worst set of IIndian batsman outside Asia.

 

 

Could be but the point is where are the better options? Is there someone better than Rahane and Rahul not in the squad?

Edited January 14, 2018 by zen

[Trichromatic]

Just now, zen said:

Also it is a misconception to suggest that if tailenders averaged more in certain conditions, the top order should average more as if tailenders batted in top order, they could avg much less and vice versa

Top order should average more as it is their main job. They are specialist batsmen and if they aren't doing it then they are certainly failing in that role.

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Could be but the point is where are the better options? Is there someone better than Rahane and Rahul not in the squad?

Dunno, team has explore better options.

 

Better than Rahane and Rahul? Well no one can do anything about captain's slow thinking, but more players should get chance.

 

There is no way that 3 batsman averaging in 20s can be our best bats.

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Top order should average more as it is their main job. They are specialist batsmen and if they aren't doing it then they are certainly failing in that role.

Not necessarily in every condition and every time as in tests it also depends up on the time you bat and the bowlers that you face 

 

if if that were the case guys like Tendulkar would be batting in the top order in tests too

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Dunno, team has explore better options.

 

Better than Rahane and Rahul? Well no one can do anything about captain's slow thinking, but more players should get chance.

 

There is no way that 3 batsman averaging in 20s can be our best bats.

So on one hand, we don’t know that there are better options, and on the other hand, we want to give chances to random folks to see if someone comes through

 

The players who have to come through should identify themselves through proper process much like how players currently playing did. We should have some information otherwise we are shooting in the dark