Whether Virat Kohli overtook Sachin as the test batsmen ??

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, New guy said:

And the boundaries were much bigger. In kapil etc time and early Sachin time you needed real strength to clear the huge boundaries, many of today's 6s will easily be caught at the boundary 

 

yes. Mindset, approach, everythign was different. Many things were pioneered during that era. Going hard inside powerplay with risk. It made sense back then because going hard at new ball with power play restriction was logical. At this point 1 to 50 any over can be powerplay overs.

[singhvivek141]

47 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Yea.. it was distinctly difficult to hit the 40 over balls for 4s and sixes as it would get softer. You need a lot of muscle power compared to now where the ball doesn't get older than 25 overs.

 

Balls those days used to reverse as well.

 

Plus until Sehwag arrived at the scene, Sachin was the only player who can start at 100 plus SR. Ganguly, Dravid, Sidhu, Azhar, Prabhakar, Shastri all were slow starters.

 

Only Kapil, Robin Singh and Ajay Jadeja were the ones down the order who can hit from ball one.

 

I remember days when once 4-5 wickets were down we will have Nayan Mongia coming at 7, Kumble 8, Srinath 9, Joshi 10 & Venky 11. It was matter of time before we collapse.

[Strangering]

This whole thread is embarrassing and offensive. 

 

For three reasons 

1. How can you even put the two names in one sentence 

2. Those who are arguing 

3. Those who are entertaining those arguments with replies. 

 

Two new balls, DRS, Ball tempering. End of story. Shut this thread down. 

[vvvslaxman]

46 minutes ago, Strangering said:

This whole thread is embarrassing and offensive. 

 

For three reasons 

1. How can you even put the two names in one sentence 

2. Those who are arguing 

3. Those who are entertaining those arguments with replies. 

 

Two new balls, DRS, Ball tempering. End of story. Shut this thread down. 

 

Longer Kohli continues this form by playing for India more this thread will look ridiculous

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

And the boundaries were much bigger. In kapil etc time and early Sachin time you needed real strength to clear the huge boundaries, many of today's 6s will easily be caught at the boundary 

 

Is there any proof of that?

[Strangering]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

yes. Mindset, approach, everythign was different. Many things were pioneered during that era. Going hard inside powerplay with risk. It made sense back then because going hard at new ball with power play restriction was logical. At this point 1 to 50 any over can be powerplay overs.

I don't think a 5 years slump is something one can overcome in a GOAT conversation. 

 

Similarly, this thread's best days are behind it. 

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, Strangering said:

I don't think a 5 years slump is something one can overcome in a GOAT conversation. 

 

Similarly, this thread's best days are behind it. 

 

At test level he is below Laxman, Dravid.

[StraightDrive26]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Is there any proof of that?

Yes watch older games from the 90's, it is there on YouTube. Grounds in Australia did not have the ropes pulled in. Actually there were no ropes or cushions those days. We had few instances in Tests in Australia when batsmen actually ran 5 before the fielders pulled the ball in. 

[Adamant]

23 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

 

Ok let's assume your argument reg Kohli being a better pressure GAME player than Sachin is right.

 

Let's look at the evidence, shall we?

 

Let's take Kohli's PRIME in ODIs. It was insane. 70 average or something right? God mode.

 

What were his performances in knockouts DURING his prime?

 

2015 SF

2017 CT Finals

2019 World Cup SF

 

3 high profile games where he sank without a trace. Completely worked over by Johnson, Amir and Boult.

 

If you score a million runs and just go out without a whimper in the actual 3 games that matter...what's the use?

 

Now shall we compare Tendulkar's performance in his prime (NOT even whole career)?

 

1996 SF WC - Dominated the whole world cup and scored against SL in SF on a brutal turner.

 

1998 Sharjah Cup - Took us to finals and won us the finals

 

1998 CT QF - That 141 against Aus in QF that knocked them out

 

1998 indepedence day cup against Prime Pakistan - That 40 odd at 150 SR which gave the momentum for an impossible 315 run chase in 47 overs (of course Ganguly was the star but Tendulkar played a crucial role)

 

2000 CT Finals - Performed against NZ (Ganguly and him scored after which India collapsed)

 

This is EXCLUDING Tendulkar of the 2003 WC, CB Series performance and 2011 WC. 

 

Performances against PRIME SL, Pak, Aus in knockouts and against NZ in CT Finals..Look at the body of work (just half way through his career).

 

Compare those 2 in their primes and it's a NO contest when it comes to pressure games.

 

I fully stand by my distinction.

 

Apply it across a wide set of games and you will see it hold true.

 

There is a reason why Inzi is rated so high by Pakistanis (and others) as a pressure player even though he tanked in every WC since 1992 (even Sehwag called him Asia's best middle order bat in ODIs and yet his performances in WCs - let alone knockouts were so bad).

 

So how come he is regarded (by many) as someone good under pressure?

 

That's where the distinction comes.

 

Pressure games vs pressure situations.

Not convinced with this.

 

First of all why are you only comparing peaks? A player can do well in a pressure match even when he is not in form. 

 

I don't count Sharjah cup, pepsi cola cup etc as big tournaments cos they weren't icc tourneys. 

 

You need to understand that just like in Sachin's case people have forgotten some fine knocks KOhli played in pressure games.

 

The semifinal knock vs SRL in ct 13, semi knock vs Bangladesh in ct 17, virtual QF vs SA in ct 17, he literally singlehandedly won us an asia cup in 2016. Combine this with all the KO matches he has won for us in the t20 formats. I don't see how Sachin has done better.

 

I agree with the Inzi example, its quite clear to me that Sachin could never finish games like Kohli and once set prime Kohli was the greatest run chaser. I think kohli has Sachin beat both in pressure situations and pressure games.

[Strangering]

^^^^^ This guy is a proven Virat Kohli PR implant. 

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

I don't count Sharjah cup, pepsi cola cup etc as big tournaments cos they weren't icc tourneys. 

 

ICC tournaments weren't as frequent in Sachin's era as they're now.

Once you failed in one, there is no chance of redemption for the next 4 years.

 

Unlike now, where every year some random tournament will happen under the flag of ICC.

 

Hence discrediting Sharjah Cup or other tournaments as mediocre ones won't be right. 

[rollingstoned]

7 hours ago, Adamant said:

Not convinced with this.

 

First of all why are you only comparing peaks? A player can do well in a pressure match even when he is not in form. 

 

I don't count Sharjah cup, pepsi cola cup etc as big tournaments cos they weren't icc tourneys. 

 

You need to understand that just like in Sachin's case people have forgotten some fine knocks KOhli played in pressure games.

 

The semifinal knock vs SRL in ct 13, semi knock vs Bangladesh in ct 17, virtual QF vs SA in ct 17, he literally singlehandedly won us an asia cup in 2016. Combine this with all the KO matches he has won for us in the t20 formats. I don't see how Sachin has done better.

 

I agree with the Inzi example, its quite clear to me that Sachin could never finish games like Kohli and once set prime Kohli was the greatest run chaser. I think kohli has Sachin beat both in pressure situations and pressure games.

Bilaterals, Sahara cup and these triangular/quadrangular series counted for much more back then than they do now. I'll count Kohli's innings against SL in that tri series in Australia as it was an awesome knock. We have hardly played many of them since.

Edited January 10 by rollingstoned

[Suhaan]

12 hours ago, New guy said:

And the boundaries were much bigger. In kapil etc time and early Sachin time you needed real strength to clear the huge boundaries, many of today's 6s will easily be caught at the boundary 

Aussie 90s boundaries were ridiculous

[Suhaan]

8 hours ago, Adamant said:

Not convinced with this.

 

First of all why are you only comparing peaks? A player can do well in a pressure match even when he is not in form. 

 

I don't count Sharjah cup, pepsi cola cup etc as big tournaments cos they weren't icc tourneys. 

 

You need to understand that just like in Sachin's case people have forgotten some fine knocks KOhli played in pressure games.

 

The semifinal knock vs SRL in ct 13, semi knock vs Bangladesh in ct 17, virtual QF vs SA in ct 17, he literally singlehandedly won us an asia cup in 2016. Combine this with all the KO matches he has won for us in the t20 formats. I don't see how Sachin has done better.

 

I agree with the Inzi example, its quite clear to me that Sachin could never finish games like Kohli and once set prime Kohli was the greatest run chaser. I think kohli has Sachin beat both in pressure situations and pressure games.

Icc has made a mockery of cricket by having icc events each year

90s to early 2000s had more high profile quadrangulars and , triangulars

[Stan AF]

19 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Both at their peak are very close to each other.

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Stan AF said:

 

ODis. NOt tests.

[vvvslaxman]

After 73 tests Virat averaged  58.26

 

Now stands 123 tests

 

In the last 50 tests 2899 runs 35.79 avge 6 centuries 12 fifties

 

That is a massive decline

[vvvslaxman]

The decline is staggering

 

[Adamant]

On 1/10/2025 at 3:08 AM, Strangering said:

^^^^^ This guy is a proven Virat Kohli PR implant. 

And where is it proven, agar facts pe debate karne ki aukaad nahi ho to muh band rakho. No need to go personal here.

 

I already want him out of side, doesn't mean I can't appreciate his LOI contribution.

[velu]

I created this thread to just annoy @New guy 

 

kohli is far below vvs , dada in tests imho