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Why do some South Indians can speak Hindi fluently while many can't?


Franco Vazquez

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4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I agree. This is what should happen ideally. But the rate of migration should be slower for that imo. Eastern Bangalore has become pretty much North India .

 

Ideally, communities should be mixed and not so noticeably segregated .

Agree, the rate of migration need to be slower. City's infra too has to be looked at if it can handle the influx.
It becomes a nightmare for the people to drive on the roads, folks are spending 2:30 to 3:00 hours while travelling from Hebbel to Electronic City on city bus. Pure wastage of time and this is not leaving people with enough time on their day to enagage collaboratively. 

This is actually becoming a problem in every Tier-1 city, people are getting more and more confined in battling their own day to day hardships. Community gathering is only limited to the society events.

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3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Agree, the rate of migration need to be slower. City's infra too has to be looked at if it can handle the influx.
It becomes a nightmare for the people to drive on the roads, folks are spending 2:30 to 3:00 hours while travelling from Hebbel to Electronic City on city bus. Pure wastage of time and this is not leaving people with enough time on their day to enagage collaboratively. 

This is actually becoming a problem in every Tier-1 city, people are getting more and more confined in battling their own day to day hardships. Community gathering is only limited to the society events.

 

India needs 30+ metros. 

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On 9/28/2024 at 5:26 PM, Lannister said:

It's simple. We adopt English as our link language.

Ah yes, trust a whiteman bootlicker to want whiteman's foreign language as link language and not one of the 100s of indegenous languages. 

You are not decolonized yet, bootlicker

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On 9/30/2024 at 3:45 PM, Nikhil_cric said:

That's a recent phenomenon. Sindhis, Punjabis, Marwaris, Bora Muslims have all spoken Kannada with a good command over the language. 

 

I grew up in Wilson Garden in a community where there were plenty of these communities and they and their kids spoke better Kannada than I did. And they all spoke English too. They were very well assimilated . 

 

Its just that 2005 onwards , we have too many migrants coming in every year. 

 

 

 Spot on.

 

Entrepreneurs/ entrepreneurial communities learn local language(s) where ever they migrate. Marwaris in Bengal speak fluent Bengali. Bohris in Coimbatore speak Tamil.

Gujjus in Kenya/Tanzania speak Swahili. Jain diamond traders in Antwerpen speak Flemish. Sindhi merchants in the Gulf nations speak Arabic. 

 

Since the emergence of Bangalore as an IT hub, you have an influx of IT nerds into the city. They smash away at the keyboard in C++/Python or whatever for 8 hours a day. Spend 4 hours commuting and order in from Swiggy/ Zomato. They just don't have the bandwidth to learn Kannada.

That they are looked at with derision is unfair, given that they simply don't have the time to learn anything new/ so starkly different.

 

That said, Doctors especially those who had to do their last year/ RMO stint rurally almost always learn the local language.

 

The entire language scuffle isn't as geography/ demography related as it is occupation based.

 

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13 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Ah yes, trust a whiteman bootlicker to want whiteman's foreign language as link language and not one of the 100s of indegenous languages. 

You are not decolonized yet, bootlicker

English is now an Indian or at least an Indianized language. More Indians speak English than Englishmen, and quite soon more than Americans too. 

And what we speak is a decolonized version of English that has been enhanced with phrases/ sentence structure/ idioms from our own languages.

We have a larger quantity of work published in English than most English speaking nations. We add more words to the English dictionary.

 

It is us who have colonized the English language. I'm telling you that only na. :winky:

 

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4 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

English is now an Indian or at least an Indianized language. More Indians speak English than Englishmen, and quite soon more than Americans too. 

And what we speak is a decolonized version of English that has been enhanced with phrases/ sentence structure/ idioms from our own languages.

We have a larger quantity of work published in English than most English speaking nations. We add more words to the English dictionary.

 

It is us who have colonized the English language. I'm telling you that only na. :winky:

 

That isnt decolonized version at all. Because language is controlled by the NATIVE speakers of a given language. As evidence, you can see the western concept of 'sex, not gender' being infitrated into desi peoples english as well, despite our language and culture having no word to denote  sex and gender separately. 

 

What english fluency has done, is let western interests and cultural axioms infiltrate Indian culture. Because of language link from them to us but not the other way round. As East Asia has shown, we do not need to teach our children english to progress further in the world. 


Also, English is a highly primitive language - its far inferior to pretty much every indian language in terms of grammar, accuracy of expressions and wordplay. I see no reason  to sponsor such a language, that not only comes in as a cultural infiitration tool and is a language of the imperialist, but also a highly shitty language as language goes. 

 

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1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

 Spot on.

 

Entrepreneurs/ entrepreneurial communities learn local language(s) where ever they migrate. Marwaris in Bengal speak fluent Bengali. Bohris in Coimbatore speak Tamil.

Gujjus in Kenya/Tanzania speak Swahili. Jain diamond traders in Antwerpen speak Flemish. Sindhi merchants in the Gulf nations speak Arabic. 

 

Since the emergence of Bangalore as an IT hub, you have an influx of IT nerds into the city. They smash away at the keyboard in C++/Python or whatever for 8 hours a day. Spend 4 hours commuting and order in from Swiggy/ Zomato. They just don't have the bandwidth to learn Kannada.

That they are looked at with derision is unfair, given that they simply don't have the time to learn anything new/ so starkly different.

 

That said, Doctors especially those who had to do their last year/ RMO stint rurally almost always learn the local language.

 

The entire language scuffle isn't as geography/ demography related as it is occupation based.

 

Totally agree. It's occupation based. Business communities learn the local language very quickly. 

 

And yes I can empathise with those who don't have the bandwidth to learn a local language after spending a gruelling day at work.

 

Problem is it does nothing for social cohesion. 

 

Mumbai is pretty much a Hindi speaking city now except maybe SOBO and a few areas. When I was there for a while , my physiotherapist insisted that I speak in Hindi

 

Trouble is Bangalore has always had a history that was steeped in Kannada and English .

 

And there is a great reluctance to change. If someone demands Hindi, there is a great likelihood of backlash lol.

 

Not sure what the solution is but there no easy one Im sure as you can see from the response above. 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Totally agree. It's occupation based. Business communities learn the local language very quickly. 

 

And yes I can empathise with those who don't have the bandwidth to learn a local language after spending a gruelling day at work.

 

Problem is it does nothing for social cohesion. 

 

Mumbai is pretty much a Hindi speaking city now except maybe SOBO and a few areas. When I was there for a while , my physiotherapist insisted that I speak in Hindi

 

Trouble is Bangalore has always had a history that was steeped in Kannada and English .

 

And there is a great reluctance to change. If someone demands Hindi, there is a great likelihood of backlash lol.

 

Not sure what the solution is but there no easy one Im sure as you can see from the response above. 

 

 

 


Solution is link language. For which a desi language is the only qualification. 

Easiest is to promote Hindi, as nearly 50% of non-hindi natives can speak/understand hindi and except for anti-india dravidian theories, there isnt much resistance to hindi.

 

A fairer but harder solution is Israel solution : promote the historical link language ( Sanskrit) through school system. People forget, that back in the 50s and early 60s, Israel had 5-7% reading/writing literacy in Hebrew ( most jews who came from Europe didnt speak or write hebrew, they spoke/wrote yiddish) and in a span of 50 years, through state sponsorship, made it at 99% for Jewish Israelis. 

Sanskrit is that link language, as we find sanskrit inscriptions in the walls of South Indian dynasties such as Satavahana, Chaulukya,Rashtrakutas, Cholas, etc. 

 

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:


Solution is link language. For which a desi language is the only qualification. 

Easiest is to promote Hindi, as nearly 50% of non-hindi natives can speak/understand hindi and except for anti-india dravidian theories, there isnt much resistance to hindi.

 

A fairer but harder solution is Israel solution : promote the historical link language ( Sanskrit) through school system. People forget, that back in the 50s and early 60s, Israel had 5-7% reading/writing literacy in Hebrew ( most jews who came from Europe didnt speak or write hebrew, they spoke/wrote yiddish) and in a span of 50 years, through state sponsorship, made it at 99% for Jewish Israelis. 

Sanskrit is that link language, as we find sanskrit inscriptions in the walls of South Indian dynasties such as Satavahana, Chaulukya,Rashtrakutas, Cholas, etc. 

 

Sanskrit is impractical.

 

There's no need to promote a "link" language. If it grows organically in the South then well and good. Otherwise, the status quo is fine.

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12 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Sanskrit is impractical.

 

There's no need to promote a "link" language. If it grows organically in the South then well and good. Otherwise, the status quo is fine.

Why is sanskrit impractical, when the jews literally did this with the dead hebrew language ?

There is every need to promote link language in a nation. South doesnt get to opt out, the status quo isnt fine, because we are still using the language of our enemies and those who created 90% of the problems in India today in the first place.


To make the historical link language of India the link language again, just like Jews did with Hebrew, is rather easy. The SAME WAY they did it - keep schools in english medium, but drop english as a subject and replace with Sanskrit. 

Problem solved in 40-50 years for having a local indegenous link language that has near universal historical presence all over India.

 

 

Edited by Muloghonto
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10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Why is sanskrit impractical, when the jews literally did this with the dead hebrew language ?

There is every need to promote link language in a nation. South doesnt get to opt out, the status quo isnt fine, because we are still using the language of our enemies and those who created 90% of the problems in India today in the first place.

 

What is the population of Israel? And here we have to teach 1.5 billion a language with no teachers to meet that capacity. It's a futile exercise.

 

The South and frankly every region has the right to opt/choose what they want to teach.  If there's an organic demand for Hindi, then let it be taught compulsorily.

 

Speaking the English language does not make us like our enemies.

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2 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

What is the population of Israel? And here we have to teach 1.5 billion a language with no teachers to meet that capacity. It's a futile exercise.

 

The South and frankly every region has the right to opt/choose what they want to teach.  If there's an organic demand for Hindi, then let it be taught compulsorily.

 

Speaking the English language does not make us like our enemies.

Teaching capacity isnt function of raw numbers but relative numbers. If israel can find teachers within 0.1% of their population that has fluency in Hebrew, we can too for Sanskrit. 

No region has right to opt out of any such thing when it comes to national link language. South comes after India. That there is organic demand for Hindi is pretty obvious because more than 50% of non-hindi speakers already speak hindi. The idea of not being taught as compulsory comes almost exclusively from the South, motivated by andi-india propaganda ideologies like Dradvidianism. 

So the way i see it, organic demand is being blocked by anti-national foreign ideology peddling southie political interests. 

 

Speaking the language lets our enemies infiltrate our societies far easier. Thats why Indian society has far more problems with wokie western ideologies than korea or Japan.

 

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5 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

What is the population of Israel? And here we have to teach 1.5 billion a language with no teachers to meet that capacity. It's a futile exercise.

 

The South and frankly every region has the right to opt/choose what they want to teach.  If there's an organic demand for Hindi, then let it be taught compulsorily.

 

Speaking the English language does not make us like our enemies.

I also told you how to do it easily:  Keep schools in english/hindi/local language medium, drop English grammar/english literature and introduce Sanskrit. 
Thats literally how you do it,because thats literally how you go from 0.1% fluent speakers of a language and 5% of speaking of any capacity to 99% in 50 years. 

The proven model already exists, so your protestations are vacuous and likely, motivated. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I also told you how to do it easily:  Keep schools in english/hindi/local language medium, drop English grammar/english literature and introduce Sanskrit. 
Thats literally how you do it,because thats literally how you go from 0.1% fluent speakers of a language and 5% of speaking of any capacity to 99% in 50 years. 

The proven model already exists, so your protestations are vacuous and likely, motivated. 

 

I'm sorry. You're arguments are much vacuous and motivated than mine are.

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Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

I'm sorry. You're arguments are much vacuous and motivated than mine are.

Yes, my motivation is link language for all of india that is indian as pre-requisite. 

There is nothing vacuous about arguments that cite precedent and a plan, compared to argument that does neither, so kindly don't project.

Southies don't get to opt out, as they are part of India and that is not negotiable. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Yes, my motivation is link language for all of india that is indian as pre-requisite. 

There is nothing vacuous about arguments that cite precedent and a plan, compared to argument that does neither, so kindly don't project.

Southies don't get to opt out, as they are part of India and that is not negotiable. 

 

I agree. NRI Bengalis who have had epiphanies about the decadence of Anglophone culture while living there should give Southies living in India ultimatums on what they can/can't do 

 

Not vacuous at all. 

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Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

I agree. NRI Bengalis who have had epiphanies about the decadence of Anglophone culture while living there should give Southies living in India ultimatums on what they can/can't do 

 

Not vacuous at all. 

Decadance of anglophonic culture is irrelevant.

Southies wouldnt get lectured by bengalis if they didnt resist pan-india languages and peddle anti-india dravidian ideologies in the first place. Where one lives, is irrelevant to the discussion, so your deflections wont work.

I notice that once i brought out actual example, you ran away as to why 'sanskrit wont work'. 

Also, LMAO at saying there is no organic demand for Hindi. the DEFINITION of organic demand is that which is demanded organically by society- which is proven by the fact that despite no formal education in hindi, close to 50% of non-native hindi speakers in India speak/understand hindi.


South has gotten away with its anti-india and anti-north activities too long, all these activities existing only since the anglos came. We have noticed. and we are funding its uprooting. 

 

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Just now, Muloghonto said:

Decadance of anglophonic culture is irrelevant.

Southies wouldnt get lectured by bengalis if they didnt resist pan-india languages and peddle anti-india dravidian ideologies in the first place. Where one lives, is irrelevant to the discussion, so your deflections wont work.

I notice that once i brought out actual example, you ran away as to why 'sanskrit wont work'. 

Also, LMAO at saying there is no organic demand for Hindi. the DEFINITION of organic demand is that which is demanded organically by society- which is proven by the fact that despite no formal education in hindi, close to 50% of non-native hindi speakers in India speak/understand hindi.


South has gotten away with its anti-india and anti-north activities too long, all these activities existing only since the anglos came. We have noticed. and we are funding its uprooting. 

 

Organic demand for Hindi in the South .  If 50 % can speak Hindi without formal education then what is the need to promote it , surely people can pick up languages without the Centre needing to promote it.

 

And opposition to imposition of Hindi is not specifically Dravidian.

 

What are these anti India and anti North activities that took you 70 years to notice ? 

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4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Organic demand for Hindi in the South .  If 50 % can speak Hindi without formal education then what is the need to promote it , surely people can pick up languages without the Centre needing to promote it.

 

And opposition to imposition of Hindi is not specifically Dravidian.

 

What are these anti India and anti North activities that took you 70 years to notice ? 

" if society is organically compensating, what is the need for govt support "

okay. same logic then applies to dole, social security, pensions etc - coz society 'organically' supports these through charities and temple trusts.

This shows that you are intellectually dishonest and want to oppose hindi/sanskrit due to dravidianism, than any logical or rational reason. Thats why you raised 'need organic demand first' as counter, then when shown that organic demand is plenty, resort to 'why help the people along when there is so much organic demand'. Thats called changing argument to support a pre-concieved notion. 


Opposition to hindi is 99% driven by southerners. There is no such thing as dravidian. Thats a fake anglo-created category. 

the non southerner indians who are not hindi speakers - like odiya, bengali, assamiya, Sikkimese, Punjabi, Gujarati, Marathi etc. do not oppose hindi as link language or education in schools. Opposition only comes from the south.


Everything in dravidian ideology  is anti-Indian and anti-north so that is a rather stupid question. From trying to co-opt northern civilization like Indus Valley, to preferring the white masters language over an Indian language as national language. 

 

Edited by Muloghonto
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