The dumb math of playing the extra batsman

[R.D forever]

This stat does not answer my question about consistency. Don't simply put stats without any meaning. Since u like stats too much See the below graph and see what I mean. After the 93 in SA he didn't score a single 30 till the 3rd test in Eng. Bowling is also not consistent. Where do u see a consistent performer in this

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by R.D forever

[zen]

Just now, R.D forever said:

This stat does not answer my question about consistency. Don't simply put stats without any meaning. Since u like stats too much See the below graph and see what I mean. 

Pointless discussion for youngsters who are judged more on potential in their early phase be it Pandya or Pant .... You are mixing things up with specialists and veterans players  

 

And when I have clearly identified - "If we optimize our batting and bowling slots, we would have accounted for consistency. So what players such as Pandya, esp. in the early phase, can do is work as impact player at times and like a Swiss Army Knife at times to provide that edge and/or balance to the team .... With time, as he improves, consistency and performances will come naturally"

[R.D forever]

Oh god. So basically ur argument is we can't expect Pandya to be consistent because he is young and has potential.  Sorry I didn't know ICC is also counting player potential to decide test match results. 

 

FFS man am not even asking for 50. He has not scored even 30s consistently . What balance is he providing that a Bhuvi/Thakur wouldn't have provided? Atleast they could have picked more wickets

 

[zen]

31 minutes ago, R.D forever said:

Oh god. So basically ur argument is we can't expect Pandya to be consistent because he is young and has potential.  Sorry I didn't know ICC is also counting player potential to decide test match results. 

 

FFS man am not even asking for 50. He has not scored even 30s consistently . What balance is he providing that a Bhuvi/Thakur wouldn't have provided? Atleast they could have picked more wickets

 

ICC is irrelevant to the discussion. Team building is an initiative taken by respective teams considering various factors including debuting players   

 

As has been discussed, Pandya is not the problem. Averaged more than some of the specialist batsmen and picked up wkts at a SR of 55, which is good for a 5th bowler, who bowls when the ball is not hard enough .... and that too in his first season! 

 

Bowling in Eng, where he changed the game for Ind,  for e.g.

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team England

Start of match date between 12 Sep 2017 and 12 Sep 2018

Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler

Ordered by bowling strike rate (ascending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 7 of 7

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
HH Pandya	4	6	64.1	7	247	10	5/28	6/50	24.70	3.84	38.5	1	0
UT Yadav	1	2	24.0	3	76	3	2/20	3/76	25.33	3.16	48.0	0	0
I Sharma	5	9	151.0	36	437	18	5/51	6/97	24.27	2.89	50.3	1	0
JJ Bumrah	3	6	133.2	31	363	14	5/85	7/122	25.92	2.72	57.1	1	0
Mohammed Shami	5	9	172.4	25	622	16	4/57	6/108	38.87	3.60	64.7	0	0

 

I hope you will learn to appreciate good performances and potential shown by youngsters 

 

Thank you once again! 

Edited September 12, 2018 by zen

[R.D forever]

This argument doesn't even make sense. I am asking why Pandya is not scoring runs. You are saying even others are not scoring. I know that. You cannot show others failure to justify your own failure. 

 

Yes our top 5 needs work. But u can't say first fix that then come to Pandya instead of talking about his problems with batting.

[zen]

21 minutes ago, R.D forever said:

This argument doesn't even make sense. I am asking why Pandya is not scoring runs. You are saying even others are not scoring. I know that. You cannot show others failure to justify your own failure. 

 

Yes our top 5 needs work. But u can't say first fix that then come to Pandya instead of talking about his problems with batting.

What was he supposed to score?

[coffee_rules]

 

 

16 hours ago, rkt.india said:

A good 5th bowling option is essential and that 5th bowler should be able to bat as well.  Find me some better than Pandya, I will gladly take him even if he is a spinner.  Till Then End of Thread.  

WIth Pant batting like he did, we could afford to have somebody like Vihari who would score more than an AR and give breaks to main bowler. I don't know why we have to compromise if the 5th bowler is only used to give breaks. In Lords' if we could count Pandya's 3 wickets as his contribution for not making enough runs, then Pandya will be consistently as useless as a one-legged man at an arse-kicking contest. 

[diehardpacer]

The problem is none of the batsmen can bowl.None of the upcoming batsmen like Shaw,Gill,Mayank,Manish can bowl.Players like Kedar,Vihari,Nair,Vijay Shankar at best can get a few lucky wickets.Right now our best all rounders are Jadeja,Ashwin,Bhuvi. Pandya is good for LOIs but is still a work in progress in tests.It's better if he focuses on ODIs & T20s till the next WC.In the free time,he should play in counties & if possible in Aus Big Bash/their First Class.May be after a year,he will be much better suited for tests. Kuldeep Yadav & Umesh Yadav can both bat .I still feel Umesh should have been given the entire series either in place of Shami or Kuldeep or in Lords or even Ashwin.

Eng were playing with 6 bowlers & Root as 7th option.That's like 9-10 batsmen & 6-7 bowlers & 2 WK in their playing XI .Even if Indian batsmen negotiate Broad & Anderson,they used to lose their wickets to Woakes,Curran,Stokes,Ali or Rashid. Their bowlers were never tired.Eng underperformed this series with the bat but they have an excellent future with so many all rounders,especially in the next WC.

Edited September 13, 2018 by diehardpacer

[zen]

6 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

WIth Pant batting like he did, we could afford to have somebody like Vihari who would score more than an AR and give breaks to main bowler. I don't know why we have to compromise if the 5th bowler is only used to give breaks. In Lords' if we could count Pandya's 3 wickets as his contribution for not making enough runs, then Pandya will be consistently as useless as a one-legged man at an arse-kicking contest. 

You do realize that in 5th test Ind played 6 batsmen. And it was one of the worst performances by the top 6 in relatively batting friendly conditions .... esp hearwreaking if you take Rahul’s 100 out  

 

Before deciding to play an extra batsman or a bowler, first we have to optimize 5 and 4 slots respectively 

Edited September 13, 2018 by zen

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

WIth Pant batting like he did, we could afford to have somebody like Vihari who would score more than an AR and give breaks to main bowler. I don't know why we have to compromise if the 5th bowler is only used to give breaks. In Lords' if we could count Pandya's 3 wickets as his contribution for not making enough runs, then Pandya will be consistently as useless as a one-legged man at an arse-kicking contest. 

but Vihari cannot replace a specialist spinner.  This arrangement is, so that we can play 4 specialists seamers in SENA if we dont want Pandya as the third seamer, to have a spinning alrounder.

Edited September 13, 2018 by rkt.india

[diehardpacer]

For Aus tour,

Openers:KL,Mayank/Shaw

Middle Order: Pujara,Koach,Rahane,Jadeja(Team needs to have more faith in his batting)

WK:Pant,

Bowlers: Bhuvi,Ishant,Umesh/Siraj,Bumrah

Reserves: Vihari,Hardik,Ashwin,Kuldeep,Nair/Vijay(If he recovers form in Essex),2 more pacers

Vihari got lucky to get the wickets of Cook & Root.They went at him carelessly.Showed promise in Batting but was giving many chances.

KL can be reserve keeper if Pant gets injured.I will consider playing Vijay at no 6 in place of /Jadeja if the pitch has nothing for spinners.He will have to bowl 5-10 overs.

Rahane needs to sign with a county/an Aus Domestic team asap.He needs to stop gifting his wicket due to lapse of concentration.In fact,the entire team barring Koach should consider doing that.

Edited September 13, 2018 by diehardpacer

[coffee_rules]

Of all players, least is expected out of Pandya. He is only a 5th bowler, wickets are bonus, but he is there only to give main bowlers rest. He comes after Rahane or even after wicketkeeper, but runs are optional as top 5 is supposed to score most runs. No problem if he fails to do either, as he is just a rookie Kapil Dev waiting to happen.

[prasen82]

Why cant we try nagarkoti.. I heard he bats decently. How much worse could he be than pandya. And in bowling he will improve. 

 

Pandya ceiling is known. We cannot provide 20 tests for pandya to become a decent allrounder. Better he plays ranji to hone it. Let's go with 4 proper bowlers of which two can bat for average of 30 balls per innings. If the top 6 don't score , we cant do much. Time to do the srh strategy , become a bowling powerhouse . Lower totals our batsmen can manage . Anyways we have kohli.