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Hinduphobia In Secular India

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

Rajdharma was for husband to ask women to burn themselves after being held captive by a goon. Seems rajadharma to me. Lol and you are defending it here ? 

 

As a Raja , his Rajadharma takes precedence over Patidharma.  I am not defending, trying to explain. If you defend all the name-calling, you may choose to do so. He is still going to be revered, not only for the said actions.

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3 hours ago, mishra said:

Story is very simple if someone can understand mentality behind it. A citizen of Ayodhya claims he is neither Ram nor king that he will take his wife into his family again. So what were alternative. Ram to ignore the view held by a citizen who has his doubts and do whatever he wants. Should he punish that citizen? Should he accepts what citizen says and divorce Sita? Should he ignore that person who has his own doubts. Should there be one social rule for citizen and other for king?  Or should he choose a path where by he as a king sets a example to his citizens that Sita (representing a woman), just because in captivity of Ravana ( symbolising evil) doesn't mean that woman necessarily becomes different. Agnepariksha atleast told itizens of Ayodhya to change the mindset.

1. King does not gets treated differently then his citizens. Rules are same.

2. Woman must not be disawoed simply on basis of "suspiscion of adultery". Society has to change the view.

3. Justice doesn't just needs to served It should be perceived to be done as well.

 

 

Fact is Ram didn't disavow Sita after conquest of Lanka. Infact, he took long ardous route of building a allaince going all the way to Lanka and getting Sita back. The whole war was for Sita, not for speredaig territory, religion or influence. It was a war for dignity of a woman.thousand years of billions of peoples history across varisious civilation and various ages and mindset, including modern world, there is not a single instance where a example like this can be seen where a woman's dignity has been prioritised apart from age of Ayodhya and Ram

 

So you are saying in it being accepted as normal at the time it happened obsolves it from the current lense we put it through ? Meaning Ram proved he is like a commoner when he asked his wife to burn and thats his virtue, we can not question the act itself as it was normal at that time. ? The only thing we need to acknowledge is that it is not applicable to current time. but thats needs to be decisively acknowledged.

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3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

As a Raja , his Rajadharma takes precedence over Patidharma.  I am not defending, trying to explain. If you defend all the name-calling, you may choose to do so. He is still going to be revered, not only for the said actions.

Stop being emotional where did I name call ? Lol don't defend burning an other human being pls. 

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5 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

This is whataboutism. But if we are OK with our God asking his wife to burn herself to prove her purity then we have no right to question any ones else's religion on morality. 

 

I am not questioning other religion's morality here. I am mocking at the hypocrisy of those liberals why can't they have such open-minded views about other religions as well. Sab aajate lota leke, to crap on Hindus. Baaki secular logon se phatthi hain pichwade mein

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Just now, coffee_rules said:

 

I am not questioning other religion's morality here. I am mocking at the hypocrisy of those liberals why can't they have such open-minded views about other religions as well. Sab aajate lota leke, to crap on Hindus. Baaki secular logon se phatthi hain pichwade mein

Both should be questioned no rape of underage in the name of marriage and no buring of humans simple really. 

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17 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Stop being emotional where did I name call ? Lol don't defend burning an other human being pls. 

 

Yes, it matters of faith, it is not acceptable to hear common abuse like she has done. If you want to everybody to acknowledge that Ram was wrong, as I explained, he choose to do what a King would do. He has his reasons. I am not saying he did the right thing. If you want modern fake-feministic morality with binary logic  to be applied to people of religion, I'd still say, first do it for all faiths, question how can god impregnate a virgin, how anybody split a moon, then you have the right to ask about such morality issues. In matters of faith, binary logical reasoning should not be applied.  Indian logic philisophy has many pramanas to learn about anything. 

 

https://www.diwakareducationhub.in/2019/11/25/indian-logic-notes-reasoning-ugc-net-paper-1/

 

 

Edited by coffee_rules
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1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

If you want to everybody to acknowledge that Ram was wrong, as I explained, he choose to do what a King would do. He has his reasons. I am not saying he did the right thing.

everything else you wrote is is gibberish. There is right there is wrong, what Ram entity did at that time in present context is not right. If you asked sita entity if she likes getting burnt what do you think her answer would have been. 

 

No reason is good enough to burn some other person. sorry, this is fundamental.

Stop defending indefensible here. My discussion with you on this is done. 

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7 minutes ago, Vilander said:

everything else you wrote is is gibberish. There is right there is wrong, what Ram entity did at that time in present context is not right. If you asked sita entity if she likes getting burnt what do you think her answer would have been. 

 

No reason is good enough to burn some other person. sorry, this is fundamental.

Stop defending indefensible here. My discussion with you on this is done. 

 

Yes, what you don't understand will be gibberish. There is not only right and wrong, but 100s of shades of grey. 

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15 hours ago, mishra said:

There was a ban this year but index is showing its poorer than last year. Blaming Diwali celeberations and crackers is NGTs trying to find a excuse for unplanned development of city and sale of green belts.

https://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/science/delhi-air-quality-index-diwali-2020-sees-higher-presence-of-pollutants-than-2019-cpcb-tells-ngt/2129467/

 

Infact Lahore which is miles away from Delhi struggles every year with same issue without any Diwali.

 

If its still not clear to anti Cracker brigade.

 

Here is data for 5th November and 14th November and 15th November

spacer.png

 

 

Yep, see what i see it is that, Older generation anyways slows down in bursting crackers. They lose interest. We just get conscious that we are not 10 year old or a teenager anymore. We might still do crackers but not as much because our conscience doesn't allow it to spend more money on crackers at a certain age. Also society is a lot mature now that they don't want to spend all their money in bursting crackers when they can use the same money in buying gifts, food or even to renovate something important in the house. So its not like people don't know that money does go for a toss in crackers. But we have to be considerate that many kids do it for pleasure. So let kids be kids and create awareness that money is being wasted in crackers to ensure kids mature that way and do crackers in a way where they are not spending 10k+ worth of money on this. But what is happening is that the message is wrong, which looks like very anti-diwali, anti-traditions, anti-environment etc. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Vilander said:

Stop being emotional where did I name call ? Lol don't defend burning an other human being pls. 

Who actually got burned? Did he force Sita to take the test? Sita was free to not take the test? Fact is , Sita passed the test. So if Agni Pareksha was literally burning yourself, then she wouldn’t have survived Irrespective of truth/lie. Would she?

 

Who knows? Agnipareksha may have been just some sort of test devised to separate truth vs lie

Edited by mishra
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4 hours ago, Cricketics said:

 

 

Yep, see what i see it is that, Older generation anyways slows down in bursting crackers. They lose interest. We just get conscious that we are not 10 year old or a teenager anymore. We might still do crackers but not as much because our conscience doesn't allow it to spent more money on crackers at a certain age. Also society is a lot mature now that they don't want to spend all their money in bursting crackers when they can use the same money in buying gifts, food or even to renovate something important in the house. So its not like people don't know that money does go for a toss in crackers. But we have to be considerate that many kids do it for pleasure. So let kids be kids and create awareness that money is being wasted in crackers to ensure kids mature that way and do crackers in a way where they are not spending 10k+ worth of money on this. But what is happening is that the message is wrong, which looks like very anti-diwali, anti-traditions, anti-environment etc. 

 

 

 

Instead of Liberandu Intellectuals and celebrities lecturing hindus on Diwali, i feel the impact of the environmental damage should start from within the community.

 

nNo one is denying that there may be a slight contribution to pollution during Diwali but this does not warrant a overnight ban by governments. What I propose is the following:

 

1. Focus on BIGGER contributors to pollution- rich elites and their SUVs, factories, sludge dumping, crop burning, population control

 

2. Regulate the manufacture of fireworks- Stop allowing the import of low quality harmful Diwali products from China and invest in local manufacturing of better quality fireworks that may cause less pollution. Its all about RnD.

 

3. After all this phase out low level firecrackers and bombs which are used by common people and allocate state funds to have NYE style firework displays in big towns and cities. This way the religious side of Diwali is observed and fireworks can be experienced too. If countries can have this on NYE why cant we have this on Diwali? This could be an incentive for revenue as better the firework display more people will attend this.

 

I am not in India so I am not sure how feasible these ideas are.

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7 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

This is whataboutism. But if we are OK with our God asking his wife to burn herself to prove her purity then we have no right to question any ones else's religion on morality. 

This is why Ram doesn't get traction in Bengal, and why BJP's Ram pitch won't work in that state...'Patit Pavan Sita Ram' has takers mainly among the Biharis/Marwaris in the state. All Bengali elders with whom I interacted with about Ramayan raised this point. Understandable since Durga/Kali are the main figures of worship. I have even heard devout/kattar Bong Hindus say stuff like seikhane Kali Ma nishchoy Ramer ponde laat mere dito (there Kali Ma would have definitely kicked Ram's buttocks). I don't have such an extreme opinion (moreover I am not that well versed about our itihaasa) but see where they are coming from, Hinduism is very diverse and we must accept diverging view points, and must re-evaluate our understanding from time to time.

 

Recently we had that TV show (Star Plus) Siya Ke Ram which narrated Ramayan from Sita's perspective, challenged existing notions including Agni Pariksha and Ram's failure as a husband, became very popular. Similarly Suryaputra Karn which highlighted disgusting casteism and hypocrisy of many admired figures in Mahabharat. So I am sure the next generation of Hindus can be rooted to their dharma but with a more open mind than their parents. We are more flexible than the Abrahamics which is a strength as well as weakness, has always been the case, so I think we will keep reforming hopefully in a positive way. 

Edited by Gollum
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39 minutes ago, Gollum said:

This is why Ram doesn't get traction in Bengal, and why BJP's Ram pitch won't work in that state...'Patit Pavan Sita Ram' has takers mainly among the Biharis/Marwaris in the state. All Bengali elders with whom I interacted with about Ramayan raised this point. Understandable since Durga/Kali are the main figures of worship. I have even heard devout/kattar Bong Hindus say stuff like seikhane Kali Ma nishchoy Ramer ponde laat mere dito (there Kali Ma would have definitely kicked Ram's buttocks). I don't have such an extreme opinion (moreover I am not that well versed about our itihaasa) but see where they are coming from, Hinduism is very diverse and we must accept diverging view points, and must re-evaluate our understanding from time to time.

 

Recently we had that TV show (Star Plus) Siya Ke Ram which narrated Ramayan from Sita's perspective, challenged existing notions including Agni Pariksha and Ram's failure as a husband, became very popular. Similarly Suryaputra Karn which highlighted disgusting casteism and hypocrisy of many admired figures in Mahabharat. So I am sure the next generation of Hindus can be rooted to their dharma but with a more open mind than their parents. We are more flexible than the Abrahamics which is a strength as well as weakness, has always been the case, so I think we will keep reforming hopefully in a positive way. 

Same story in TN. With all kali worship strong female deity worship basically. Can't get around that fact and some underlying racial connotations like calling folks from South monkeys lol there was even some shiznet around sugriva killing etc. More bjp talks abt Ram less traction they get in TN. Wierd country different ethos. 

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43 minutes ago, Gollum said:

We are more flexible than the Abrahamics which is a strength as well as weakness, has always been the case, so I think we will keep reforming hopefully in a positive way. 

The thing with Christians is that they have separated church from politics to a large extent atleast in big eu democracies. In India we all have caste religion based vote banks unfortunately may be there trend of that now in US as well.

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3 hours ago, mishra said:

Who actually got burned? Did he force Sita to take the test? Sita was free to not take the test? Fact is , Sita passed the test. So if Agni Pareksha was literally burning yourself, then she wouldn’t have survived Irrespective of truth/lie. Would she?

 

Who knows? Agnipareksha may have been just some sort of test devised to separate truth vs lie

Yup revision is needed in the script and we can do it since we are Hindus we evolve. 

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Some say that the later verses 115 to 118 in Yudh Kanda were added later in Valmiki Ramayana, just to get all gods to arrive in Lanka and let Rama know that he is the avatara of Vishnu and Sita is Lakshmi and he has to accept her. This was done so Vaishnavites may claim his story as one of Dashavatar of Vishnu
 

It makes sense, because most part of Ramayana spends verses on how Rama is in sorrow and yearning for Sita. And enlists a whole army to fight for her, and then these verses come in where he disavows her and asks her to take Agnipareeksha . It doesn’t add up. Vaishnavism , Shaivism and Shakti all have following in Hinduism or Sanatan Dharma

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Why would I be afraid to put my Rubbermaid brand food container in a microwave to heat up my food. The ones who carry plastic ones should worry about theirs.

 

Obviously, we all know Ramayana but we have 0 experience in what exactly things means. How can a Zero-gravity concept be explained staying on earth. You need to go in space for that or create a vacuum. 

 

First of all, he was not an ordinary human being, he was maryaada purushottam, Vishwa Samrat Prabhu Shri Ramachandra. He had a power equals to Rudra. Which is enough to destroy the entire universe. Now can wife of such a great incarnation be any ordinary human either? She was not just a woman. We audaciously call them Ram and Sita. She was Shakti Rupi, Chaitanyamayi Shri Sita Ma.  

 

Now please go ahead tell me what Chaitanya mayi means. Have you felt Chaitanya before? Do you even know what it is? We are all with Nashwar rup body/Sharir. She was complete Chaitanya rup. Merely taking the names of Shri Ram and Shri Sita gives you experience of that exact same chaitanya. Why would Shri Ram have problem with Shri Sita offering herself to Agni. (Read the very first line). So they both were completely aware of the situation. 

 

Having said that, entire Agnipariksha episode was very painful to everyone and no we cannot comprehend it in the modern times nor could Shri Rama at that time. He was in extreme pain during this whole episode. It was not like Shri Rama was asking to burn Shri Sita Ma alive. That is so ignorant way of putting it. Nobody could, let alone burn even scratch her. (I know obvious followup argument would be then how did Ravana abduct her). But I was saying that she couldnt have been hurt in that fire. They both knew it and we as devotees believe in that strongly. There was a complete consent from Shri Sita Ma. Why the heck anybody should have problem with it I dont understand. But again, the whole hindu sankriti is that we allow and encourage questioning. We all have rights to question anything but we shouldnt ridicule it especially something we dont understand. And yet if someone does, we can ignore and move on. 

 

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2 hours ago, Gollum said:

This is why Ram doesn't get traction in Bengal, and why BJP's Ram pitch won't work in that state...'Patit Pavan Sita Ram' has takers mainly among the Biharis/Marwaris in the state. All Bengali elders with whom I interacted with about Ramayan raised this point. Understandable since Durga/Kali are the main figures of worship. I have even heard devout/kattar Bong Hindus say stuff like seikhane Kali Ma nishchoy Ramer ponde laat mere dito (there Kali Ma would have definitely kicked Ram's buttocks). I don't have such an extreme opinion (moreover I am not that well versed about our itihaasa) but see where they are coming from, Hinduism is very diverse and we must accept diverging view points, and must re-evaluate our understanding from time to time.

 

Recently we had that TV show (Star Plus) Siya Ke Ram which narrated Ramayan from Sita's perspective, challenged existing notions including Agni Pariksha and Ram's failure as a husband, became very popular. Similarly Suryaputra Karn which highlighted disgusting casteism and hypocrisy of many admired figures in Mahabharat. So I am sure the next generation of Hindus can be rooted to their dharma but with a more open mind than their parents. We are more flexible than the Abrahamics which is a strength as well as weakness, has always been the case, so I think we will keep reforming hopefully in a positive way. 

 

Hya !! :ohmy:

 

Shri Kali was incarnation of Shakti or Parvati. She is sister of Shri Vishnu. Shri Rama was Vishnu avatar. To say such abhadra thing and yet call themselves Shri Kali bhakt? well what do we say, its their prerogative. 

 

Irony is evident everywhere.

 

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4 hours ago, dial_100 said:

 

Hya !! :ohmy:

 

Shri Kali was incarnation of Shakti or Parvati. She is sister of Shri Vishnu. Shri Rama was Vishnu avatar. To say such abhadra thing and yet call themselves Shri Kali bhakt? well what do we say, its their prerogative. 

 

Irony is evident everywhere.

Why do Shaivites and Vaishnavites fight then? I have seen Iyengars and Iyers having pretty strong differences in college, Iyengar guy would refuse to accept prasad from a Shiva temple and use strong language, I mean Shiva and Vishnu are brothers-in-law, still. Adi Sankara united the various sects, but there will always be cracks. He went to Kamrup to dissuade them from conducting animal sacrifice, kuch hua? We must first accept that Hinduism is an umbrella religion, homogenization is simply not possible. You can't force Ram down the throats of people from some regions just like how Tamil God Murugan (Karthik) will always play second fiddle in North. Like how many non-Bengalis will avoid having Kali photos in their puja room. 

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