Kuldeep Yadav looks mentally shot and done.

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

nclude a bits and pieces trundler

thakur is not a trundler he is Fast-Medium but bowls pies often with wrong length and does not have the pace or angel to challenge international batsmen with short stuff.

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Kuldeep and Chahal after their intial success have regressed which is quite normal with any player who had the kind of success these two had intially.

 

Kuldeep has to come up with some solution to counter batsmen on flat pitches, the same thing happened against England when Kulcha was last  played.

 

Kuldeep other problem, he is fighting against history, no chinaman bowler has been successful in long run.

 

Chahal does not turn the ball a lot and is also slow thru air and is afraid of contact.If tendencies are evident to us who are watching in TV.Teams have lot more resources dedicated in decoding these two bowlers.

If only they had an actual leader and not a pretender as their captain with his cheerleader as their coach.

 

Real Leaders groom talented youngsters and help them fulfil their immense potential. Pretenders give good sound bites and destroy young careers.

[putrevus]

36 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

If only they had an actual leader and not a pretender as their captain with his cheerleader as their coach.

 

Real Leaders groom talented youngsters and help them fulfil their immense potential. Pretenders give good sound bites and destroy young careers.

Real players fight adversity and overcome their problems.Unlike pretenders they don't need babying , Kuldeep was dropped by their IPL team too.Stop this nonsense that it is always captain and TM's fault.

 

There have been better one year wonders than these two in history of cricket.

[LordPrabhzy]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

thakur is not a trundler he is Fast-Medium but bowls pies often with wrong length and does not have the pace or angel to challenge international batsmen with short stuff.

i dont know about you but i thought that was the definition of a trundler anyway...

[vayuu1]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

Kuldeep and Chahal after their intial success have regressed which is quite normal with any player who had the kind of success these two had intially.

 

Kuldeep has to come up with some solution to counter batsmen on flat pitches, the same thing happened against England when Kulcha was last  played.

 

Kuldeep other problem, he is fighting against history, no chinaman bowler has been successful in long run.

 

Chahal does not turn the ball a lot and is also slow thru air and is afraid of contact.If tendencies are evident to us who are watching in TV.Teams have lot more resources dedicated in decoding these two bowlers.

Kuldeeps problem is lack of variation, currently he bowls either chinamen or Googly,he doesn't have a flipper or skidder or top spinner,plus he doesn't vary his pace, also one thing you notice is he bowls chinamen with conventional seam ,same with wrong un

[ShoonyaSifar]

39 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Real players fight adversity and overcome their problems.Unlike pretenders they don't need babying , Kuldeep was dropped by their IPL team too.Stop this nonsense that it is always captain and TM's fault.

 

There have been better one year wonders than these two in history of cricket.

Remember you were saying exactly the same thing about Rahul just a few weeks back. Be ready to do more such shameless about turns

[Nikola]

delete.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Nikola

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, vayuu1 said:

Kuldeeps problem is lack of variation, currently he bowls either chinamen or Googly,he doesn't have a flipper or skidder or top spinner,plus he doesn't vary his pace, also one thing you notice is he bowls chinamen with conventional seam ,same with wrong un

You are spot on.He needs that flipper at any cost to keep batsmen guessing.I don't think he will increase his speed thru air.See as a spinner if you want a long career you cannot be just a mystery bowler.That 6/25 he took against England in T20s was due to his mystery as English batsmen just could not read him but it did not continue in the world cup 2019.

[cricketpitch]

Kuldeep needs some time off from the International team. This is not a one off poor performance, he has had a mediocre year in ODIs. Average of 37 at 5.5 since Jan 2019 in 27 games for 37 wickets. He in that period has been preferred over Chahal (16 games) and Jadeja (19 games) for ODIs. So it is not that the TM has ignored him or not picked him. He has just lost his uniqueness and teams have figured him out. It will be interesting how he comes back from that. He cannot hang on to his initial success anymore. 

 

This is probably a chance for him to show his mental toughness and make a comeback. If that means that he goes back to domestic cricket and works on his bowling, so be it. India need to trial other spinners in the meanwhile. Chahal has been better than Kuldeep in the same period in ODIs but again his economy rate also is 5.7 during that time. Jadeja hasn't picked many wickets during the same time period and has an average of 53, even though his economy rate is lower than the wrist spinners. Kuldeep & Chahal need to show lots of improvement in the coming months for them to be a certainty in the world cup squad. India have failed to try out bowlers like Shreyas Gopal or Gowtham in the X1 over the past year or so and did not experiment in the home season against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh & West Indies. 

 

Gopal 13 wickets in 8 games in Vijay Hazare and 19 wickets in 12 games in Syed Mushtaq Ali this season.
M Ashwin and Markande have had a good T20 domestic tournament last season as well this season.
Gowtham took 15 wickets in 11 games in Vijay Hazare Trophy

 

It seems like while Virat is very impatient with the batters, he has lots of time for the bowlers which means we carry on with under performing bowlers for a long time. Sometimes the bowlers need some time off or a break. We are making the same mistakes as we did before 2019. At least there we went with a performing and in form Kul-Cha combination. We are so obsessed with number 4 batting spot that the bowling combination is being overlooked. I am not saying we drop Kuldeep and Chahal but we surely need to rest them and try out different bowlers. This is not only for Australia but for the World Cup next year in India as well. We need to try out different bowlers as much as we can to avoid similar issues as the 2019 WC. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by cricketpitch

[Ankit_sharma03]

This phase was suppose to come. If i have to put it step by step this is how it goes in many cases

 

1. Intial success 

2. Teams find u out - which happened last yeR

3. Loss of form - happened last year

4. Recovery phase - which he is now.... Like KL was in series against Wi and ppl were crying loud about his s/r n all n i said he is getting better . Now the diff between KL n kuldeep is that KL came on back of solid domestic season n kuldeep or injury n warming bench so his recovery might take long. But this phase wont be as bad as last year and the more he plays the better he ll get. Hopefully when he goes back he ll get to play few domestic games. Kuldeep is quality bowler n every quality play will face this phase so its all about backing n keeping patience with them. Dont think that guys like gopal or rahul chahar wont go through this. 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Remember you were saying exactly the same thing about Rahul just a few weeks back. Be ready to do more such shameless about turns

Rahul is fit in odi  now because he is keeping the wickets and playing in middle order. Rahul  stunk in tests those are facts. I don't change my opinions based on results like you.

 

I always wanted Rahul to keep wickets years back when he was with RCB before Pant even came into picture.

[cricketpitch]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

This phase was suppose to come. If i have to put it step by step this is how it goes in many cases

 

1. Intial success 

2. Teams find u out - which happened last yeR

3. Loss of form - happened last year

4. Recovery phase - which he is now.... Like KL was in series against Wi and ppl were crying loud about his s/r n all n i said he is getting better . Now the diff between KL n kuldeep is that KL came on back of solid domestic season n kuldeep or injury n warming bench so his recovery might take long. But this phase wont be as bad as last year and the more he plays the better he ll get. Hopefully when he goes back he ll get to play few domestic games. Kuldeep is quality bowler n every quality play will face this phase so its all about backing n keeping patience with them. Dont think that guys like gopal or rahul chahar wont go through this. 

Kuldeep is a good bowler but he needs some time off. Playing international cricket when you are getting hammered in every game will not allow you to think right. He needs to go and play some domestic cricket, go back to basics and work on his bowling. Unfortunately for him this series is followed by IPL where he might be dented further. It surely will test his mental toughness. If he can come back from this to his best, he will become one of the best bowlers ever in world cricket. Right now his bowling is hurting India in LO formats. He isn't great fielder or batter to gain confidence from performances in those disciplines either. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Rahul is fit in odi  now because he is keeping the wickets and playing in middle order.

Rahul keep wkts or not he owns a place as batsman only in odis

He avg 47 now

And the s/r ppl cried has shot from 79 to 86 now in matter of 2 series and it ll keep rising. 

 

He cud have batted in middle long ago but was discarded twice by idiot captain who was busy wasting games on rayudu, kartik, yuvi n all.

 

1st after 3 games

2nd time after 1 game

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Rahul  stunk in tests those are facts. I don't change my opinions based on results like you.

No he didnt, he was avg 40 as opener which was fine till one bad year came and avg dropped. One bad year can affect avg n one good year can change it as will. The guy has 100s overseas n in diff condition in subcontinent as well. Let him get re chance in test and in an year he ll fix that avg. A bad phase also affected some like rahane avg from 50 to 40s . 

Stinking means avg of 20-25 

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I always wanted Rahul to keep wickets years back when he was with RCB before Pant even came into picture.

 

[Vk1]

Seeing Rashid Khan or people like Imad Wasim or Zampa, the main thing that works for wristies is their length.

They always bowl in that corridor of uncertainty confusing batsman whether to go forward or backward.. ably mixing the googlies and varying pace along. 

Kuldeep and Chahal still rely on flight and deception and there is no proof that it works now a days. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, cricketpitch said:

Kuldeep is a good bowler but he needs some time off. Playing international cricket when you are getting hammered in every game will not allow you to think right. He needs to go and play some domestic cricket, go back to basics and work on his bowling. Unfortunately for him this series is followed by IPL where he might be dented further. It surely will test his mental toughness. If he can come back from this to his best, he will become one of the best bowlers ever in world cricket. Right now his bowling is hurting India in LO formats. He isn't great fielder or batter to gain confidence from performances in those disciplines either. 

See t20 is double edge sword form as player can loose form quickly n gain to. Neways with t20 wc coming thats the only prep he needs. 

Im pretty sure he ll come back from this may be not now , may be after an year . IPL might help also as ur away from this TM that is very negative with youngster. But i dont blame much TM for these 2 as this phase was suppose to come one day. 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rahul keep wkts or not he owns a place as batsman only in odis

He avg 47 now

And the s/r ppl cried has shot from 79 to 86 now in matter of 2 series and it ll keep rising. 

 

He cud have batted in middle long ago but was discarded twice by idiot captain who was busy wasting games on rayudu, kartik, yuvi n all.

 

1st after 3 games

2nd time after 1 game

No he didnt, he was avg 40 as opener which was fine till one bad year came and avg dropped. One bad year can affect avg n one good year can change it as will. The guy has 100s overseas n in diff condition in subcontinent as well. Let him get re chance in test and in an year he ll fix that avg. A bad phase also affected some like rahane avg from 50 to 40s . 

Stinking means avg of 20-25 

 

He stunk for two year in tests from 2018 to 2020 , that is a life time for many players..

Let us revisit his odis after he plays 75 plus odis. He does not fit the side unless he is keeping.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Seeing Rashid Khan or people like Imad Wasim or Zampa, the main thing that works for wristies is their length.

They always bowl in that corridor of uncertainty confusing batsman whether to go forward or backward.. ably mixing the googlies and varying pace along. 

Kuldeep and Chahal still rely on flight and deception and there is no proof that it works now a days. 

 

 

Rashid is extremely quick through air kuldeep is not. Its not that rashid hasnt had his bad days . Zampa to has lost his place many times so this will happen to every one. Imad wasim is a 5th bowled so he doesnt have wkt taking pressure as he can get away with good econmy. Imad bowling falls under krunal category....their strength is variation in length n pace thats it. 

Kuldeep is working on his action to be quick through since a year but this takes a lot of time and a lot of bowling. Currently he is struggling with consistency in line n lengths which means he also isnt fully in control of his changes till now

 

Kulcha also repeead huge benefit from each other now mostly they have jadeja at other end who either leak runs or doesnt take wkts. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He stunk for two year in tests from 2018 to 2020 , that is a life time for many players..

In which one year he only played just 3 games. In the previous 2 yrs he had an avg of 59 n 49 ....so 2 good year 2 bad year ...hows that stinking.

Rahane also stunk for 2 years and i can name many many who stunk for few years. Most cricketers peak is 4-5 years rest years they stink or are avg. In this he also played eng n sa where pretty much everyone stunk yet the guy ended up scoring 150 in england which kohli cudnt in his 1st stinky eng tour. If a player manages to score even in his worst days well he has something. Some like kallis stunk for 20 test matches in line . 

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Let us revisit his odis after he plays 75 plus odis. He does not fit the side unless he is keeping.

A player with 47 avg doesnt deserve a place in Xi if he doesnt keep . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Let us revisit his odis after he plays 75 plus odis. He does not fit the side unless he is keeping.

Also when i use to say dont count players like rahul, pant, pandya useless till they play 70*75 odi , u were the only admant on calling them failures, talentless when they didnt even play 15 games. 

Now u wanna wait to announce them successful for 75 games which is right but then be fair n give tht much tims to atleast call them failures , useless or talentless . 

[Vk1]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rashid is extremely quick through air kuldeep is not. Its not that rashid hasnt had his bad days . Zampa to has lost his place many times so this will happen to every one. Imad wasim is a 5th bowled so he doesnt have wkt taking pressure as he can get away with good econmy. Imad bowling falls under krunal category....their strength is variation in length n pace thats it. 

Kuldeep is working on his action to be quick through since a year but this takes a lot of time and a lot of bowling. Currently he is struggling with consistency in line n lengths which means he also isnt fully in control of his changes till now

 

Kulcha also repeead huge benefit from each other now mostly they have jadeja at other end who either leak runs or doesnt take wkts. 

Agree with your views. But it has already been an year since they have lost their form. Last match kuldeep still had the support of a good target to defend..the way he was hit indicated that there will more such games in future.