Shubman Gill needs to be tried in test matches and ODIs

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

You are expecting a bit too much from a youngster who is yet to debut.

I think everyone who wants him in the ODI squad are expecting too much from him.

 

Like I said, it's a better idea for him to be drafted into the Test team right now and it looks like the selectors agree. 

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

I think everyone who wants him in the ODI squad are expecting too much from him.

 

The only thing they are expecting is a talented youngster, with potential to be an all-condition batsman, getting international experience at a time when there are no big ODI tournaments around the corner. So that there is no pressure on either him or the team to hinder his development process.

 

22 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Like I said, it's a better idea for him to be drafted into the Test team right now and it looks like the selectors agree. 

 

Really !  The selectors made him debut in ODIs with 6 or 7 ODIs left before the World Cup. And it was a pressure cooker situation with the middle order in turmoil.  

 

Then they drop him after 2 ODIs and decide to keep him out even after the World Cup is over and we were playing a weak WI side.

 

What kind of planning is this !

 

Whenever someone with talent gets a chance, he should get ample chances to prove himself.

 

 

[Bigg Brother]

Great one @express bowling

 

Hope this thread succeeds like "Bumrah should be tried in test matches"

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

Great one @express bowling

 

Hope this thread succeeds like "Bumrah should be tried in test matches"

 

Thanks brother !

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

49 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The only thing they are expecting is a talented youngster, with potential to be an all-condition batsman, getting international experience at a time when there are no big ODI tournaments around the corner. So that there is no pressure on either him or the team to hinder his development process.

And what I'm saying is that the best way to develop said talented youngster is to play him at the position he's most comfortable in, not in one he has little to no experience in.

51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Really !  The selectors made him debut in ODIs with 6 or 7 ODIs left before the World Cup. And it was a pressure cooker situation with the middle order in turmoil.  

Then they drop him after 2 ODIs and decide to keep him out even after the World Cup is over and we were playing a weak WI side.

What kind of planning is this !

You seem to have forgotten that the only reason Shubman Gill got to play that series is not because they had him in the plans for the World Cup, but because their reserve opener KL Rahul was suspended after the Koffee With Karan incident and the the replacement, Mayank Agarwal, happened to be injured at that time. KL Rahul was always their third opener for the World Cup.

 

Now we can say it was bad planning to keep playing Ambati Rayudu for over a year and say that he's our No. 4 only to drop him for the World Cup, but Gill wasn't in the plans for the World Cup anyway and they weren't looking to give him a run. He just happened to play that series due to the misfortune of others.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

And what I'm saying is that the best way to develop said talented youngster is to play him at the position he's most comfortable in, not in one he has little to no experience in.

 

It is hardly that easy a solution. Rohit and Dhawan are just 32 and 33 respectively and are expected to play for the next 4  to 5 years. The discouragement that a talented youngster like Gill may feel, if he has to sit for 4 to 5 years to be a regular in the Indian ODI team, may well destroy him as an ODI player.

 

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

You seem to have forgotten that the only reason Shubman Gill got to play that series is not because they had him in the plans for the World Cup, but because their reserve opener KL Rahul was suspended after the Koffee With Karan incident and the the replacement, Mayank Agarwal, happened to be injured at that time. KL Rahul was always their third opener for the World Cup.

 

Now we can say it was bad planning to keep playing Ambati Rayudu for over a year and say that he's our No. 4 only to drop him for the World Cup, but Gill wasn't in the plans for the World Cup anyway and they weren't looking to give him a run. He just happened to play that series due to the misfortune of others.

 

I did not expect Gill to play the World Cup.   Nor should he have.

 

But he could have been a part of our ODI squad to the WI, after the World Cup was over. Once you introduce a really talented youngster to the national team and give him hope, there has to be a follow up of that.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

It is hardly that easy a solution. Rohit and Dhawan are just 32 and 33 respectively and are expected to play for the next 4  to 5 years. The discouragement that a talented youngster like Gill may feel, if he has to sit for 4 to 5 years to be a regular in the Indian ODI team, may well destroy him as an ODI player.

 

 

I did not expect Gill to play the World Cup.   Nor should he have.

 

But he could have been a part of our ODI squad to the WI, after the World Cup was over. Once you introduce a really talented youngster to the national team and give him hope, there has to be a follow up of that.

What should be Gill's position in ODIs.

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What should be Gill's position in ODIs.

4

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

4

I don't think you can do that to guys like Iyer.They have to get their chances too.

 

To me he has to be an opener.For that he needs to become a test opener as there is slot there and show his worth there.He will get his shot in tests first.

Any newcomer should be given chances in one format and then it is upto that newcomer to prove his worth and make a case for himself in other formats.

He has not done anything yet anywhere to deny Iyer and Pandey their chances.They both need to be given consistent chances now in the middle order.

Edited September 12, 2019 by putrevus

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think you can do that to guys like Iyer.They have to get their chances too.

 

To me he has to be an opener.For that he needs to become a test opener as there is slot there and show his worth there.He will get his shot in tests first.

Any newcomer should be given chances in one format and then it is upto that newcomer to prove his worth and make a case for himself in other formats.

He has not done anything yet anywhere to deny Iyer and Pandey their chances.They both need to be given consistent chances now in the middle order.

 

Iyer should get to play and will play in ODIs and T20Is. And he can easily bat at 5 like he has done in the WI.

 

Pandey has done very little at international level. Neither does he come across as international class. I hope he is not chosen.

 

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Rohit and Dhawan are just 32 and 33 respectively and are expected to play for the next 4  to 5 years. The discouragement that a talented youngster like Gill may feel, if he has to sit for 4 to 5 years to be a regular in the Indian ODI team, may well destroy him as an ODI player.

What about the discouragement that Ruturaj Gaikwad and Anmolpreet Singh will feel who are also talented youngsters that are gunning for that opening slot? Those are just the harsh realities of life that many talented players, not just Gill, have to deal with. Look at Iyer for example. His numbers in domestic LOI cricket last year were ridiculous and he still didn't get a place in the team. Mayank Agarwal toiled hard for years before he got to play his debut Test.

 

Gill will have to keep scoring big runs for Punjab and India 'A'. He might get the odd ODI series in between to play when the big players are rested and that's when he needs to make it count.

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

I did not expect Gill to play the World Cup.   Nor should he have.

But he could have been a part of our ODI squad to the WI, after the World Cup was over.

The players are usually rested from the WI series to manage their workload when they've had a gruelling schedule. The players had enough rest after the World Cup and there wasn't a reason to rest them.

[Ankit_sharma03]

22 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Iyer should get to play and will play in ODIs and T20Is. And he can easily bat at 5 like he has done in the WI.

 

Pandey has done very little at international level. Neither does he come across as international class. I hope he is not chosen.

 

 

4 gill

5 iyer

6 pant

7 hardik 

 

then who wud be the 6th bowler. Dont tell me iyer....he doesnt bowl anyways...neither are part timers working these days. Iyer nyways bowls leg spin so control wud be an issue specially when he doesnt bowl much . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

It is hardly that easy a solution. Rohit and Dhawan are just 32 and 33 respectively and are expected to play for the next 4  to 5 years. The discouragement that a talented youngster like Gill may feel, if he has to sit for 4 to 5 years to be a regular in the Indian ODI team, may well destroy him as an ODI player.

Dhawan i feel is on edge....a few more bad series will give selectors enough reasons. But guys like shaw, mayank, rahul , ruturaj , gill also have to keep performing to put that pressure. 

Having said that ....this is kind of scenarios dhawan has always excelled in . 

 

Neways i feel gill is more suited to MO be it test or ODI.....ODI he might be good in top 3 but all top 3 then become similar pace batsman. I wud prefer someone like shaw in open since rohit n kohli are not going anywere 

 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Iyer should get to play and will play in ODIs and T20Is. And he can easily bat at 5 like he has done in the WI.

 

Pandey has done very little at international level. Neither does he come across as international class. I hope he is not chosen.

 

 

Iyer and Pandey will have to be tried for no4/ no5 as required and they need to find another guy who can bowl and bat for T20s, you cannot go with just five bowlers.So Gill cannot fit at no4 as I don't think he good enough for no4.He looked more at ease as an opener in IPL too.

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

What about the discouragement that Ruturaj Gaikwad and Anmolpreet Singh will feel who are also talented youngsters that are gunning for that opening slot? Those are just the harsh realities of life that many talented players, not just Gill, have to deal with. Look at Iyer for example. His numbers in domestic LOI cricket last year were ridiculous and he still didn't get a place in the team. Mayank Agarwal toiled hard for years before he got to play his debut Test.

 

Gill will have to keep scoring big runs for Punjab and India 'A'. He might get the odd ODI series in between to play when the big players are rested and that's when he needs to make it count.

The players are usually rested from the WI series to manage their workload when they've had a gruelling schedule. The players had enough rest after the World Cup and there wasn't a reason to rest them.

Gill is a special player.  He is not some run of the mill player like Aggarwal.  It took Aggarwal years before he started performing even in domestic cricket.  Agarwal is 28 and only in last 2-3 years, he had consistent performances.  While Gill has just turned 20 this month and is already one of the top performers in domestic cricket and for India A.  Special players are always drafted early and make their own place.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Gill is a special player.  He is not some run of the mill player like Aggarwal.  It took Aggarwal years before he started performing even in domestic cricket.  Agarwal is 28 and only in last 2-3 years, he had consistent performances.  While Gill has just turned 20 this month and is already one of the top performers in domestic cricket and for India A.  Special players are always drafted early and make their own place.

 

Exactly !

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

Iyer and Pandey will have to be tried for no4/ no5 as required and they need to find another guy who can bowl and bat for T20s, you cannot go with just five bowlers.So Gill cannot fit at no4 as I don't think he good enough for no4.He looked more at ease as an opener in IPL too.

 

We need solidity at No.4 in ODIs. We have had too many collapses if the top 3 are dismissed cheaply or one of them is missing.  And Gill is that batter who can give us that mix of solidity, strokeplay and strike rotation at 4, provided he is groomed for that slot.

 

Iyer is an ideal No.5 for me. Pandey and Iyer at 5 and 4 ,  two players with very questionable techniques, will lend our batting line-up to frequent collapses. Iyer is the far more consistent batsman with a higher ceiling and I would prefer him at 5 and not Pandey.

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Neways i feel gill is more suited to MO be it test or ODI.....ODI he might be good in top 3 but all top 3 then become similar pace batsman. I wud prefer someone like shaw in open since rohit n kohli are not going anywere 

 

 

Rohit

Shaw

Kohli

Gill

Iyer

 

Would be a very nice mix of solidity, stroke-play and different types of batters.

[express bowling]

-

Edited September 13, 2019 by express bowling

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

What about the discouragement that Ruturaj Gaikwad and Anmolpreet Singh will feel who are also talented youngsters that are gunning for that opening slot?

 

Anmolpreet has a major weakness against the short ball. And he was getting hurried rather regularly against Nortje on a slow pitch. His off-stump game is not that tight either.  In his current state, he is not a Team India prospect.  May improve in the future though if he works on his weaknesses.

 

Gaekwad has just started to get noticed. No one is considering him for Team India now. 

 

These two are not really comparable to the Gill of today.  Gill has been considered as a special talent by the whole cricket fraternity for quite some time and making his way to Team India at age 19 / 20.

 

Shaw is the really high SR special batsman who has already debuted for India and would be considered when his ban gets lifted. He is considered Team India material.

Edited September 13, 2019 by express bowling