Is Novak Djokovic a poor sport?

[Gollum]

@I6MTW Agree with most of your points.

 

50 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

There was a time when Nole had some of the toughest draws, but those days are gone. They were from 2010-15. The past few years, his draws have been quite easy. Almost Nadal's level. Of course nothing compares to 17 USO, but last few years have been quite easy, minus the time where he was injured and didn't make it thru the draws. He added 3-4 slams over the past year they easy draws, it doesn't help either that the competition is at it's lowest in years.

Till circa 2015 as you said draws from hell....in the same half as Fed on HCs and likewise with Nadal on clay. Probably no one in modern era has had to conquer so many tough draws, that compensates for his relatively easier draws in recent past. But even there he almost always had to go through in form Fed or Nadal to win majors which is never an easy task. Overall among the Big 3 he has had the most number of tough majors, Fed had some easy ones early on and a couple recently (more to do with low standard of competition).

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His limitations are his attacking game, his net and volley game, and his atrocious lob and smash.

His smash is meme-worthy but you sure about his lob? Apart from Murray I have seen him use the lob the best among the top players. 

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Djokovic started his career as an attacking baseliner, when that didn't work he switched to defense. He is actually quite limited and doesn't have that much variety. Which is why Wawrinka with his power game can overpower him from the baseline.

His overall record against Stan is pretty dominant. In slams he has had problems since 2013 AO. Though Stan is hardly ever motivated in non slam events, I wouldn't say he is better against Nole than Fed/Nadal...he does seem to be more clutch though, not afraid or nervous like Fed/Nad. 2016 USO and this edition you can say Nole wasn't physically at 100%....2015 RG he had mental demons because of his drought there, 13, 14 and 15 AOs were high quality matches. But yeah a firing Stan isn't an easy match up for the Serb. 

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He also struggles a lot against the Next Gen players.

Will wait and watch, too early to conclude. In non-majors NextGen has been better against Big 3. 

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Also , he does have success on all surfaces(did he ever play on carpet? I'm not sure). But that doesn't meant he is an ATG on all of them. He is an ATG on Hard court, both outdoor and indoor hard, on clay it is debatable(same with Federer) , because of Nadal they don't have a lot of clay achievements, compared with the past great clay courter, such as Muster, Kuerten, then there's obviously Borg, Vilas, etc.

Difficult to conclude but I reckon both Fed and Nole should be considered clay court ATGs. Nole has even dominated Nadal in non-RG events for a period of more than 6 years. 

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On Grass, I agree has had 5 Wimbledon titles(3 of them due to choking by Federer), but I doubt he is an ATG, his record is inflated. Would Djokovic be at a competitive level on grass in the previous eras? When there was Sampras, Becker, Edberg, etc? What about the 80s? I highly doubt it. Federer might have. He had the grass game. I do agree he is better on all surfaces than Nadal.

2014 Nole choked to take it to the 5th, he should have wrapped it up in 4. 2015 he outclassed the Swiss, this year he had no business winning....outplayed Fed in 2/3 finals. He is an ATG on modern grass, how would Sampras and Edberg do in today's Wimbledon courts? Game has changed a lot, even Fed hasn't won the grass major on lightning quick courts, 2001 was the last Wimbledon when conditions were really fast. 

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As for Fed's mental game. I agree. But you could argue, it's because of the arrival of his two main rivals that he his choking arrived in the first place. His mental strength is quite underrated, he is known to fight till the very end, just check his record from coming back from a set down(BO3) or two sets down(BO5), or the no of MPs saved. His case is quite an anomaly. He has equally fought back from matches as well as equally choked matches. Which I attribute to his main rivals arrival. It's not as if Fed's mental game is atrocious. See W 2008 final, a mono Fed came back from two sets down with his biggest rival and almost won the match. I mean how many times would he actually choke from 40-15? 99% of the time he would've converted. 

Fed's greatest mental test was against Haas in 2009 RG, then the SF against Potro. Apart from his numerous misses against Nadal, Djokovic (especially) the USO 2009 final hurts. He has choked more in recent past against lesser players as well, maybe because of age nerves are taking a toll. 

Still his atrocious BP conversion and losing matches despite domination/more points etc are signs of mental vulnerability. 

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As for Fed's game at his prime. Of course his ROS doesn't compare to Nole or Murray, but it was effective and underrated. He had the block, chipped returns , and was effective in neutralising the killer serves. His mental strength wasn't tested in his prime (2004-7) I think because he didn't face his toughest rivals. But he did manage to overcome Nadal since 2015 after being dominated for so many years. Now he has to solve the Djokovic puzzle. Will he get a chance to I don't know. Since W 2019, he has been on a mental decline as well as the physical injury in the Dimitrov match. Will he come back I don't know. But I've been wrong before, especially in 2016. So hopefully he comes back stronger. 

Concur. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Gollum

[I6MTW]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@I6MTW Agree with most of your points.

 

Till circa 2015 as you said draws from hell....in the same half as Fed on HCs and likewise with Nadal on clay. Probably no one in modern era has had to conquer so many tough draws, that compensates for his relatively easier draws in recent past. But even there he almost always had to go through in form Fed or Nadal to win majors which is never an easy task. Overall among the Big 3 he has had the most number of tough majors, Fed had some easy ones early on and a couple recently (more to do with low standard of competition).

His smash is meme-worthy but you sure about his lob? Apart from Murray I have seen him use the lob the best among the top players. 

His overall record against Stan is pretty dominant. In slams he has had problems since 2013 AO. Though Stan is hardly ever motivated in non slam events, I wouldn't say he is better against Nole than Fed/Nadal...he does seem to be more clutch though, not afraid or nervous like Fed/Nad. 2016 USO and this edition you can say Nole wasn't physically at 100%....2015 RG he had mental demons because of his drought there, 13, 14 and 15 AOs were high quality matches. But yeah a firing Stan isn't an easy match up for the Serb. 

Will wait and watch, too early to conclude. In non-majors NextGen has been better against Big 3. 

Difficult to conclude but I reckon both Fed and Nole should be considered clay court ATGs. Nole has even dominated Nadal in non-RG events for a period of more than 6 years. 

2014 Nole choked to take it to the 5th, he should have wrapped it up in 4. 2015 he outclassed the Swiss, this year he had no business winning....outplayed Fed in 2/3 finals. He is an ATG on modern grass, how would Sampras and Edberg do in today's Wimbledon courts? Game has changed a lot, even Fed hasn't won the grass major on lightning quick courts, 2001 was the last Wimbledon when conditions were really fast. 

Fed's greatest mental test was against Haas in 2009 RG, then the SF against Potro. Apart from his numerous misses against Nadal, Djokovic (especially) the USO 2009 final hurts. He has choked more in recent past against lesser players as well, maybe because of age nerves are taking a toll. 

Still his atrocious BP conversion and winning matches despite domination/more points etc are signs of mental vulnerability. 

Concur. 

Nole also struggles against Bautista-Agut, Medvedev, Simon etc . He may have winning H2H against them but that maybe due to superior fitness and clutchness, but he doesn't outclass them as such.

 

I think Federer needs to see a sports psychologist, he should've done this a decade ago, but better late then never. Kevin Anderson did it, and it revived his career and launched him straight to the top 10, top 5 even.

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, I6MTW said:

I think Federer needs to see a sports psychologist, he should've done this a decade ago, but better late then never. Kevin Anderson did it, and it revived his career and launched him straight to the top 10, top 5 even.

Wonder what effect the defeat in 06 Rome had on his psychology? A win there and maybe he would have clinched a FO beating Nadal in one of the finals. 

He should have visited a sports psychologist post the 07 RG F where he went 1/17 on BPs....Nadal didn't play well that day and was there for the taking. Earliest signs of his vulnerability. 

[Real McCoy]

A post about Nole turns into Fed discussion No wonder noletards and rafatards are pissed. Love it

[I6MTW]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

A post about Nole turns into Fed discussion No wonder noletards and rafatards are pissed. Love it

This happens all the time in MTF(mens tennis forums) the place is full of flaming and tards wars, the place is shite. Which is why I have never joined there. A topic about Federer would involve Nadal/Djokovic and vice versa. 

[Gollum]

Nadal by a mile after today, cheating prick.

[I6MTW]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Nadal by a mile after today, cheating prick.

Nadal and Djokovic both no 1 . Both are interchangeable in their gamesmanship attitude. Nadal today and Nole at the FO.

[kumar713]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:37 PM, Gollum said:

@Real McCoy it seems you dislike Nole just like me with Nadal, all good cos we both are Fed fans first and foremost