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Gollum

Tennis: Construct the ideal player using skill set of members of Big 3

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On 9/5/2019 at 10:32 PM, Gollum said:

To all tennis fans here, this is fairly self-explanatory. Choose the best among the Big 3 in various attributes like serve, ROS, FH etc. Pick the peak versions of the players. 

 

Ofc this might sound silly because grips and technique won't change so fluidly to accommodate the varying styles, just for fun. Aim is to construct the perfect player combining qualities of these 3 titans. 

 

I'll begin:

Serve- Federer in every aspect of it, variety, placement, precision, tactics, 1st/2nd serve etc

ROS- Djokovic

Standard FH- Federer

Inside Out, Down the Line FH- Nadal

Standard BH- Djokovic

BH DTL- Djokovic

BH CC- Nadal

BH Slice- Federer

Volley- Federer (Nadal's net game is underrated but doesn't make impossible volleys like the Swiss...less variety as well)

Half-Volley- Federer

One-two punch- Federer

Speed- Nadal

Stamina- Nadal

Defence- Djokovic, except on clay where Nadal reigns supreme because of his movement

Footwork- Federer

Touch- Federer

Smash- Federer

Dropshot- Federer

Lob- Djokovic

Tweener, SABR, trick shots etc- Federer

Pick up- Nadal

Change of direction- Djokovic

Flexibility/Stretchability- Djokovic

Tennis IQ- Nadal

Patience- Nadal

Defence to Offence transition- Djokovic

Depth and angles in groundstrokes- Djokovic

BP conversion- Djokovic, except on clay where Nadal is untouchable

Mental Toughness, nerves- Djokovic

Luck- Nadal (sorry couldn't resist :p:)

 

Feel free to add more features/attributes/shots I may have missed.

:nice: 

 

will post mine soon :popcorn: 

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Tennis IQ: I think Nole is ahead of Nadal now. 

 

Mental toughness plus legs is key when it comes to 5th set record and Nole towers over his 2 great rivals here. 

 

Also his ROS is the greatest shot in tennis history. Give that weapon to a 50th ranked player and he will become top 10 in a jiffy, that's how extraordinary I think it is. 

 

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8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Tennis IQ: I think Nole is ahead of Nadal now. 

 

Mental toughness plus legs is key when it comes to 5th set record and Nole towers over his 2 great rivals here. 

 

Also his ROS is the greatest shot in tennis history. Give that weapon to a 50th ranked player and he will become top 10 in a jiffy, that's how extraordinary I think it is. 

 

I actually think Murray and Agassi are up there in terms of ROS. Agassi certainly had the most attacking ROS of all time which resulted in straight winners. And that was in an era of fast courts, surface variety, serve and volley etc. 

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2 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

I actually think Murray and Agassi are up there in terms of ROS. Agassi certainly had the most attacking ROS of all time which resulted in straight winners. And that was in an era of fast courts, surface variety, serve and volley etc. 

But the way Nole sets up the point after ROS, immediately putting the server on backfoot. Forget angles and straight winners, Look at the depth man, remember SW19 2015 where Fed put on a serving masterclass against Murray in SF, in the final Nole's returns were landing near his feet. Agassi's was a high risk game, when it didn't come off he often looked helpless....not as consistent as the Serbian, didn't get as many returns in play but you can make argument about court speed back then. He didn't have the Serbian's wingspan: height+flexibility combo. Also Nole always seems in control, knows exactly where he wants to put the ball while Agassi was instinctive often hoping for the best. Still I would have him as undisputed 2nd best. Murray has a small edge against giant servebots like Isner/Anderson but anything apart from that Nole blows him out of the water. Murray's ROS is better than Fed/Nadal FACT. Ferrer too deserves a mention here. 

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

But the way Nole sets up the point after ROS, immediately putting the server on backfoot. Forget angles and straight winners, Look at the depth man, remember SW19 2015 where Fed put on a serving masterclass against Murray in SF, in the final Nole's returns were landing near his feet. Agassi's was a high risk game, when it didn't come off he often looked helpless....not as consistent as the Serbian, didn't get as many returns in play but you can make argument about court speed back then. He didn't have the Serbian's wingspan: height+flexibility combo. Also Nole always seems in control, knows exactly where he wants to put the ball while Agassi was instinctive often hoping for the best. Still I would have him as undisputed 2nd best. Murray has a small edge against giant servebots like Isner/Anderson but anything apart from that Nole blows him out of the water. Murray's ROS is better than Fed/Nadal FACT. Ferrer too deserves a mention here. 

Ferrer, Nishikori, and Nalbandian had great ROS. 

Nadal's ROS is quite overrated outside of clay. He struggles against big servers with one-two punch game.

Federer ROS was underrated imo. In his prime he was one of the best at handling big servers, before the likes of Nole, and Nadal came. His ROS has declined over the years, but it has improved and can still put up decent performances in recent times. 

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On 9/5/2019 at 10:32 PM, Gollum said:

To all tennis fans here, this is fairly self-explanatory. Choose the best among the Big 3 in various attributes like serve, ROS, FH etc. Pick the peak versions of the players. 

 

Ofc this might sound silly because grips and technique won't change so fluidly to accommodate the varying styles, just for fun. Aim is to construct the perfect player combining qualities of these 3 titans. 

 

I'll begin:

Serve- Federer in every aspect of it, variety, placement, precision, tactics, 1st/2nd serve etc

ROS- Djokovic

Standard FH- Federer

Inside Out, Down the Line FH- Nadal

Standard BH- Djokovic

BH DTL- Djokovic

BH CC- Nadal

BH Slice- Federer

Volley- Federer (Nadal's net game is underrated but doesn't make impossible volleys like the Swiss...less variety as well)

Half-Volley- Federer

One-two punch- Federer

Speed- Nadal

Stamina- Nadal

Defence- Djokovic, except on clay where Nadal reigns supreme because of his movement

Footwork- Federer

Touch- Federer

Smash- Federer

Dropshot- Federer

Lob- Djokovic

Tweener, SABR, trick shots etc- Federer

Pick up- Nadal

Change of direction- Djokovic

Flexibility/Stretchability- Djokovic

Tennis IQ- Nadal

Patience- Nadal

Defence to Offence transition- Djokovic

Depth and angles in groundstrokes- Djokovic

BP conversion- Djokovic, except on clay where Nadal is untouchable

Mental Toughness, nerves- Djokovic

Luck- Nadal (sorry couldn't resist :p:)

 

Feel free to add more features/attributes/shots I may have missed.

Serve- Djokovic

ROS- Djokovic

Standard FH- Djokovic

Inside Out, Down the Line FH- Djokovic

Standard BH- Djokovic

BH DTL- Djokovic

BH CC- Djokovic

BH Slice- Djokovic

Volley- Djokovic

Half-Volley- Djokovic

One-two punch- Djokovic

Speed- Djokovic

Stamina- Djokovic

Defence- Djokovic

Footwork- Djokovic

Touch- Djokovic

Smash- :fear1:

Dropshot- Djokovic

Lob-  Djokovic

Tweener, SABR, trick shots etc- :fear:

Pick up- Djokovic

Change of direction- Djokovic

Flexibility/Stretchability- Djokovic

Tennis IQ- Djokovic

Patience- Djokovic

Defence to Offence transition- Djokovic

Depth and angles in groundstrokes- Djokovic

BP conversion- Djokovic

Mental Toughness, nerves- Djokovic

Luck- Nadal

 

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13 hours ago, Gollum said:

But the way Nole sets up the point after ROS, immediately putting the server on backfoot. Forget angles and straight winners, Look at the depth man, remember SW19 2015 where Fed put on a serving masterclass against Murray in SF, in the final Nole's returns were landing near his feet. Agassi's was a high risk game, when it didn't come off he often looked helpless....not as consistent as the Serbian, didn't get as many returns in play but you can make argument about court speed back then. He didn't have the Serbian's wingspan: height+flexibility combo. Also Nole always seems in control, knows exactly where he wants to put the ball while Agassi was instinctive often hoping for the best. Still I would have him as undisputed 2nd best. Murray has a small edge against giant servebots like Isner/Anderson but anything apart from that Nole blows him out of the water. Murray's ROS is better than Fed/Nadal FACT. Ferrer too deserves a mention here. 

Nole's depth is sick :thumb:

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14 hours ago, Gollum said:

But the way Nole sets up the point after ROS, immediately putting the server on backfoot. Forget angles and straight winners, Look at the depth man, remember SW19 2015 where Fed put on a serving masterclass against Murray in SF, in the final Nole's returns were landing near his feet. Agassi's was a high risk game, when it didn't come off he often looked helpless....not as consistent as the Serbian, didn't get as many returns in play but you can make argument about court speed back then. He didn't have the Serbian's wingspan: height+flexibility combo. Also Nole always seems in control, knows exactly where he wants to put the ball while Agassi was instinctive often hoping for the best. Still I would have him as undisputed 2nd best. Murray has a small edge against giant servebots like Isner/Anderson but anything apart from that Nole blows him out of the water. Murray's ROS is better than Fed/Nadal FACT. Ferrer too deserves a mention here. 

:agree:

Nole doesn't need to go for Straight winners. His return depth & position gives an instant advantage in the rally :fight:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCyH8tCHhpU

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15 hours ago, I6MTW said:

Ferrer, Nishikori, and Nalbandian had great ROS. 

Agree, this despite them being on the shorter side. 

Quote

Nadal's ROS is quite overrated outside of clay. He struggles against big servers with one-two punch game.

Agree once again. Also in PC if advertisement hoardings weren't so far behind he wouldn't enjoy the court so much. Same in Monte Carlo. I mean come on, look at this comedy...

Image result for nadal return position

Image result for nadal return position

Quote

Federer ROS was underrated imo. In his prime he was one of the best at handling big servers, before the likes of Nole, and Nadal came. His ROS has declined over the years, but it has improved and can still put up decent performances in recent times. 

Great hand-eye but in his peak years too much slice, block, chip returns especially on BH side...too passive against weak serves. Wish he had 2017 topspin BH then, he could have stepped closer and employed bigger backswing esp against Nadal's second serve (which he never fed to Swiss' FH side), should have ripped more returns in some of his losses in 2007-09 period. But then his racquet head was smaller which gave more sting to his legendary FH...very difficult choice, had to compromise one part of his game. He handled big servers pretty well, excellent at getting the ball back in which is ultimately what one needs to do against those giants. 

 

PS- Also read about Connors ROS, maybe someone like @Muloghonto must have seen him live....entirely different technology then but must be in conversation.

Edited by Gollum
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I was a huge tennis fan (was never athletic enough to play much, but was a rabid fan).  But I stopped watching tennis after the end of the net-dweller era (John McEnroe, Pete Sampras).  I loved to watch players whose games were built primarily on serve-and-volley, quickness and skill at the net than pure power and stamina.  Wimbledon was a beast with the courts being much faster, even the hard courts of AO and USO were faster (RG was, of course, boring as ever).  

 

From my perspective, there is no need to combine 3 players to get the best one.  There was one already.  The 1984 edition of John McEnroe.  He was so close to winning the calendar GS, but choked against the Czech devil in the FO final.  IIRC, he only lost 2 3 matches that whole year - one to Lendl in that FO final, one to Vijay Amritraj, and I can't remember the other one.  He beat a great Jimmy Connors 6-1 6-1 6-2 in the Wimbledon final and W#2 Lendl 6-3 6-4 6-1 (or something ridiculously one-sided like that) in the USO final.  

 

He was refreshingly honest, hated authority, and made tennis entertaining; if there is any reason I might watch/listen to tennis-related things, it would be to listen to his insightful analysis.  

 

Added in edit:  

82-3 was his 1984 record.  Still the best ever single-season record.

The guy was a beast in doubles too, along with Patrick Fleming.

He was also a complete team-guy and prioritized Davis Cup play throughout his career.  

 

There you have it.

 

 

Edited by BacktoCricaddict
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On 6/18/2021 at 4:25 AM, BacktoCricaddict said:

I was a huge tennis fan (was never athletic enough to play much, but was a rabid fan).  But I stopped watching tennis after the end of the net-dweller era (John McEnroe, Pete Sampras).  I loved to watch players whose games were built primarily on serve-and-volley, quickness and skill at the net than pure power and stamina.  Wimbledon was a beast with the courts being much faster, even the hard courts of AO and USO were faster (RG was, of course, boring as ever).  

 

From my perspective, there is no need to combine 3 players to get the best one.  There was one already.  The 1984 edition of John McEnroe.  He was so close to winning the calendar GS, but choked against the Czech devil in the FO final.  IIRC, he only lost 2 3 matches that whole year - one to Lendl in that FO final, one to Vijay Amritraj, and I can't remember the other one.  He beat a great Jimmy Connors 6-1 6-1 6-2 in the Wimbledon final and W#2 Lendl 6-3 6-4 6-1 (or something ridiculously one-sided like that) in the USO final.  

 

He was refreshingly honest, hated authority, and made tennis entertaining; if there is any reason I might watch/listen to tennis-related things, it would be to listen to his insightful analysis.  

 

Added in edit:  

82-3 was his 1984 record.  Still the best ever single-season record.

The guy was a beast in doubles too, along with Patrick Fleming.

He was also a complete team-guy and prioritized Davis Cup play throughout his career.  

 

There you have it.

You sound just like my father. Almost verbatim he makes the same points to hype up his favorite JMac. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/29/2021 at 8:44 AM, Khota said:

I think Pete Sampras was the best ever. Fedrrer and Nadal are enjoying the days when tennis is not popular anymore.

Not that popular in USA, Aus but still popular in Europe. Many new countries have risen especially in Eastern Europe, East Asia. 

Quote

have not watched in decades.

Dude you have missed out on something truly special then. The era of Federer-Nadal-Djokovic, never will we see something like this again, maybe in any individual sport. Even Wawrinka, Murray would have had ATG numbers in another era, repeatedly denied by the big 3. Maybe add a couple of others on that list who are slamless or one slam wonders. 

Edited by Gollum
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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Not that popular in USA, Aus but still popular in Europe. Many new countries have risen especially in Eastern Europe, East Asia. 

Dude you have missed out on something truly special then. The era of Federer-Nadal-Djokovic, never will we see something like this again, maybe in any individual sport. Even Wawrinka, Murray would have had ATG numbers in another era, repeatedly denied by the big 3. Maybe add a couple of others on that list who are slamless or one slam wonders. 

A game dominated by Swiss cannot be that competitive.

 

I played tennis for decades and finally walked away. Never ever thought ofit as good entertainment to watch. Euro cup is really gripping to mw.

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On 7/8/2021 at 11:02 PM, Khota said:

A game dominated by Swiss cannot be that competitive.

 

I played tennis for decades and finally walked away. Never ever thought ofit as good entertainment to watch. Euro cup is really gripping to mw.

Federer had the greatest playing style of all time. One can argue his clutchess and his records, but one cannot argue he had the most pleasing game to watch.

 

Much more than the likes of Sampras and Agassi (thougy Agassi was quite nice to watch in his time).

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