Why was Ashwin completely sidelined from T20?

[velu]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I will give some weightage to Jaddu's batting in the one dayers. But in T20 he is still the same old Jaddu who misses more often than connects.  @velus buddy will more likely to be no.1 choice spinner. If they go in with 2nd spinner my vote goes to Ash.

 

jaddu is a good test batsmen .. 

his shots are limited but his defense is good

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Gollum said:

Since we play only 5 tests next year and Ashwin may not play a single one...he should be in the scheme of things in T20 (not ODI since he'll be 36 in 2023). Impressive WT20 record, good white ball outings in Australia, experience, no great finger spinner as alternative currently. Not saying he is a sure starter but can be a valuable squad member. Jaddu in T20s is a letdown, as a complete package I don't think Sundar is an improvement over Ashwin except that he is 12-13 years younger. Let's wait and see, may T20s before the big event, should try different combos. 

unlike other finger spinner he has variety like carrom ball, he bowls leg spin , changes action in between, has more experience which always helps in varying pace n length 

[Gollum]

@Ankit_sharma03 @vvvslaxman ICF's mahapurush will get a mild stroke if he sees this thread...Ankit bhai hope to see another 6 page blockbuster mega thread , show no mercy. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

We lost 2014 and 2016 T20 WCs and 2017 CTs. If you lose so many big tournaments, its natural to re-look at your bowling attack, especially the weaker links which Ashwin (and Jadeja) was. 

 

Jadeja has been brought back for his fielding, which makes sense in ODIs but he's never really been a T20 player. Earlier the TM realises this better it is.

 

Also, Ashwin used to bowl a lot of soft overs - after the power plays. Have not looked at the numbers but I do not recollect seeing Ashwin bowl that many times with the new ball or during death overs in T20s.

Edited December 9, 2019 by ShoonyaSifar

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

@Ankit_sharma03 @vvvslaxman ICF's mahapurush will get a mild stroke if he sees this thread...Ankit bhai hope to see another 6 page blockbuster mega thread , show no mercy. 

Nhin bhai ajkal mood nhin, vrna kal hi

all-rounder wale thread pe * daal deta jab dube chakke maar rha tha

[ShoonyaSifar]

15 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I will give some weightage to Jaddu's batting in the one dayers. But in T20 he is still the same old Jaddu who misses more often than connects.  @velus buddy will more likely to be no.1 choice spinner. If they go in with 2nd spinner my vote goes to Ash.

With his below par T20 away bowling average of 34? I do hope he never plays LOIs for India again. Jadeja's comeback to LOIs itself is a huge mistake, getting Ashwin will take our T20 side back to mid 2010s.

[Gollum]

10 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

We lost 2014 and 2016 T20 WCs and 2017 CTs. If you lose so many big tournaments, its natural to re-look at your bowling attack, especially the weaker links which Ashwin (and Jadeja) was. 

Talking about T20s, Ash always had a great WT20 record.

 

2014 he was marvelous, almost single-handedly won us the Cup...avg 11 at E/R 5.35 GOAT show. Would have won us the final as well if we had 20 more runs to play with and smarter captaincy by MSD esp when Sanga was looking tentative against him. 

 

2016 he won us the must win game against Toygers, MOM there. In the SF, not our day, no ball wicket, Dhoni's bizarre handling of Ash when he created chances in his 2 overs...

 

2017 CT...deserved to be out of ODI along with Jadeja. Jadeja a bigger culprit in the final but found a way back in. 

 

At least in WT20s he wasn't a weak link. Next big tourney in Aus where he did very well in the 2015 WC....diff format but good memories. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Gollum

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

We lost 2014 and 2016 T20 WCs and 2017 CTs. If you lose so many big tournaments, its natural to re-look at your bowling attack, especially the weaker links which Ashwin (and Jadeja) was. 

Ashwin was damn good in 2014 wc

2016 he was decent

2017 was odi so a diff format, no one has an issue with him being dropped in odi

 

Problem was we looked at scapegoats not the problem. We target few players without looking formats

 

Dhoni was bad in all - but wasnt touched

Dhawan n rohit flopped in both t20 wc. Atleast one cud have been changed as Dhawan is a flop t20 batsman but still kept his place. 

4 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Jadeja has been brought back for his fielding, which makes sense in ODIs but he's never really been a T20 player. Earlier the TM realises this better it is.

No jaddu is bought back on that semi innings.

Kohli said in interview that he feels jaddu is batting at his best.

What he doesnt get is jaddu can only do well we he has time in hand like test cricket or that semi final when he had 20 overs left. T20 gives u no time.

 

4 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Also, Ashwin used to bowl a lot of soft overs - after the power plays. Have not looked at the numbers but I do not recollect seeing Ashwin bowl that many times with the new ball or during death overs in T20s.

No ashwin bowled a lot in PP one of the reasons they got him in team was his success in ipl in pp. He made life tough  for gayle in ipl when he was at his peak. Ashwin was a goto bowler of dhoni for india n csk in powerplay

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

2016 he won us the must win game against Toygers, MOM there. In the SF, not our day, no ball wicket, Dhoni's bizarre handling of Ash when he created chances in his 2 overs...

 

Another issue was dew that day and then wankhade doesnt have big bounadries + russell n simmons batting....for those guys a wet ball not doing anything in that stadium was going to be fun.

Rahane innings was game changer for me.....made 40 in 35 balls which is were we lost. We shud have scored way more knowing dew wud be a factor. Their opener made 52 in 36  balls....a diff of 12 runs their itself 

[vvvslaxman]

23 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

With his below par T20 away bowling average of 34? I do hope he never plays LOIs for India again. Jadeja's comeback to LOIs itself is a huge mistake, getting Ashwin will take our T20 side back to mid 2010s.

 

Ashwin 46 matches 52 wickets avge 22.94 ER 6.97

Chahal  36 matches 52 wickets avge 21.90 ER 8.10

 

Slightly better striker rate for Chahal. Look at the ER. He gets clobbered time and again. Atleast Kuldeep has a case. But he was sidelined after the pasting he got in the IPL and indifferent outing in the world cup. Also injury to boot. Chahal was a temporary relief.  Not sure you can consider him as a permanent upgrade.  All his good bowling came very early in his career. 

[vvvslaxman]

I have a theory how Jaddu came back in. TM thought Krunal Pandya would be a great all rounder. He is going at a rate of 8.11 now. Not much use with bat. Fielding is also not as good as Jaddu. With the success of Jaddu in Tests and ODIs, they just replaced him with Jaddu. Like for Like. Truth is in terms of T20 batting that is not much of an upgrade. Bowling may be a slight upgrade.

Edited December 9, 2019 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

Kuldeep 18 innings 35 wickets 12.97 avge 6.72 ER 11.5 SR. That is some crazy number. He should be backed even if he gets odd poor matches.

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I have a theory how Jaddu came back in. TM thought Krunal Pandya would be a great all rounder. He is going at a rate of 8.11 now. Not much use with bat. Fielding is also not as good as Jaddu. With the success of Jaddu in Tests and ODIs, they just replaced him with Jaddu. Like for Like. Truth is in terms of T20 batting that is not much of an upgrade. Bowling may be a slight upgrade.

Batting n fielding wise jaddu is better but Krunal has played cameos that jaddu cudnt, Bowling wise krunal won us games in Aus, NZ, WI in a short career. 

those arent bad number specially when u play as 5th n 6th bowler

He got 3 mom overseas , 1 mos, played cameos when needed. I doubt jaddu even has 1

many here claimed that he gets wkts coz batsman attack.....well they even attacked jaddu did he gets wkts 

 

Krunal is better then jaddu in t20 which he has proven in IPL . But Krunal shud compete with Sundar.....jadeja shudnt be even in picture . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kuldeep 18 innings 35 wickets 12.97 avge 6.72 ER 11.5 SR. That is some crazy number. He should be backed even if he gets odd poor matches.

Kohli is adamant on having extra batting at 8 ....but he has chahar who can bat even bhuvi can

Neways how much batting do we need a 20 over game when our top 2 batsman anyways look to bat till end

[vvvslaxman]

Here are the snapshots of batsmen dismissed by Chahal/Ashwin. Clearly Ashwin has knocked over some top batsmen.

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Here are the snapshots of batsmen dismissed by Chahal/Ashwin. Clearly Ashwin has knocked over some top batsmen.

 

I also wanna see the batsman kuldeep has dismissed 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I also wanna see the batsman kuldeep has dismissed 

 

Picked up a few ENglish man with 6 for 25. And he did well against Ireland. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Picked up a few ENglish man with 6 for 25. And he did well against Ireland. 

He has got finch thrice a very good wkt in t20 even perara.

I think he had a number on heteymer last year may be in odis . 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

He has got finch thrice a very good wkt in t20 even perara.

I think he had a number on heteymer last year may be in odis . 

yes. crossbatted sloggers cannot succeed against Kuldeep that frequently

[ShoonyaSifar]

34 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Ashwin 46 matches 52 wickets avge 22.94 ER 6.97

Chahal  36 matches 52 wickets avge 21.90 ER 8.10

 

Slightly better striker rate for Chahal. Look at the ER. He gets clobbered time and again. Atleast Kuldeep has a case. But he was sidelined after the pasting he got in the IPL and indifferent outing in the world cup. Also injury to boot. Chahal was a temporary relief.  Not sure you can consider him as a permanent upgrade.  All his good bowling came very early in his career. 

So Chahal has same number of wickets in 10 less matches. There is really no comparison between the two. One is an attacking bowler who keeps tossing the ball up vs one who mostly bowled flat in LOIs with first priority to stop runs (the Dhoni mantra).

 

Having said that, Chahar isn’t the same bowler of 2017-18. Needs to put in better performances else TM will soon get another defensive spinner.