Yet another liberal meltdown

[Mariyam]

19 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

r*di rona.

You provided a link that indicates what the SC noted, not a verdict. The RJB verdict later compensated the Sunni wakf board with a 5 acre land in return of those notes. This case was by Congress government directly naming BJP leaders in the conspiracy of willfully hatching a plan to demolish the Mosque. How can that be proven? All along BJP in those days wanted a solution under the law, the events on Dec 6 1992 was caused by a mob that was not controlled by police. Earlier freq police firings under MSY government where an unaccounted number of Kar sevaks have died, didn’t do it on that day. This verdict reiterates what happened on that day and doesn’t hold BJP leaders directly responsible for the demolition .

You are mixing things up. The RJB verdict was a title deed, and a separate case on its own that had nothing to do with the criminal conspiracy to demolish the Babri Masjid.

This is a separate case. 

I expect the the verdict of the Special CBI court to be challenged.  There are already such noises.

 

How can a conspiracy be proven? I don't know. But Justice Liberhan of the Liberhan commission was able to identify some involvement of Murli Manohar Joshi, LK Advani and Uma Bharati.

 

I don't know why you bring up shooting of the kar sevaks prior to Dec 6 1992. That is a separate tragedy and the organisations who called for a gathering of the kar sevaks should file cases against the UP government if there were excesses on the part of the police/administration. All of that doesn't change the fact that the demolition of the Babri Masjid is an illegal act. And one in which there has been no semblance of justice.

[mishra]

Madam! Demolition was illegal act. Who is arguing on that. Court has said it. No arguement on that. Karsevaks or whoever brought it down had no prior permission/authorisation. Absolutely agree.

 

Act of Demolition isnt irrefutable evidence that them 49 gentlemen conspired. Infact I am certain that there is zero evidence on it.

 

Accept both court decisions or risk other side also not accepting the decision on similar logic of decisions didn't come to what they think should have been.

 

 

PS: By implicating 49 people, Congress itself shoot on its foot and made it more of  poilitical stuff then actual law/legal stuff

 

 

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

How did you conclude that he wants more riots from this tweet?

Only circumstantial, that tweet was liked by all rudali gang, and hence I projected. Nice guy actually, surprised of his political tweet. It could be about BLM, who knows, we are getting a lot of communication from top execs supporting BLM and how we stand with those fighting against racial injustice 

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

You are mixing things up. The RJB verdict was a title deed, and a separate case on its own that had nothing to do with the criminal conspiracy to demolish the Babri Masjid.

 

I know they are all separate case, 

the title suit of RJB, the Sunni board claim that Mosque being integral part of Islam, and this political witch-hunt case. The court has already noted, the desecration and demolition were illegal. But RJB land case was about facts established of Hindu claim and faith. 

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

This is a separate case. 

I expect the the verdict of the Special CBI court to be challenged.  There are already such noises.

 

 

This case was leveled by Congress Govt based on Political motives using judiciary report of Liberhan. Successive governments didn’t provide any evidence , but just propped it up during elections and it was a lost cause, just like the NH case on Gandhis or the 2G scam, government didn’t invest in proving. To appeal to this special court verdict, the governments of centre or state (BJP ) has to do it in higher courts. Why would they do that? Unless , courts allow some third party to raise a PIL, which I think governments has enough influence on judiciary to not allow that. Nothing that any other non-BJP governments have done. When governments change it can be appealed, on a venidarta grounds.

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

How can a conspiracy be proven? I don't know. But Justice Liberhan of the Liberhan commission was able to identify some involvement of Murli Manohar Joshi, LK Advani and Uma Bharati.

 

It was a political witch-hunt with no intent to prove. It is all based on incendiary speeches by these people that bhadkaoed the mob. How do you prove that? Also, this case was a criminal conspiracy to hatch a plan to demolish BM. Unless they get some whistle blower or have some paper trail or electronic evidence, you can’t prove it was a preplanned case.

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

 

I don't know why you bring up shooting of the kar sevaks prior to Dec 6 1992. That is a separate tragedy and the organisations who called for a gathering of the kar sevaks should file cases against the UP government if there were excesses on the part of the police/administration. All of that doesn't change the fact that the demolition of the Babri Masjid is an illegal act. And one in which there has been no semblance of justice.

 

I brought it up to indicate why the mob turned rogue and went and destroyed the structure, nobody is saying it was a legal act. This was a case with paper records maintained in British courts of pre-independence India, since mid19th century. Since 1949 there has been no namaaz prayed in it because of the desecration of it with idols of Ramlalla placed in it. It was locked till mid-1980s until

Rajiv Gandhi Govt re-ignited the issue bu opening the place for Hindu worship for political use. Since then, public emotion has been toyed around with police firing and so many riots over it. Mumbai bombings ‘93 were a case of retaliation against BM riots in 1992. There is no semblance of justice in such a case of historical proportions. The demolition was a riot case, do you want a semblance of justice after this riot or any communal riot? You can’t find any precedent to it and it will be peaceful until the next one happens.

[coffee_rules]

Meat and Liquor ban in Mathura, Vrindavan and other pilgrimage sites in UP. Alcohol is also banned in Holy Amritsar. But any such ban in Hindu pilgrimage sites causes an uproar

 

 

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Meat and Liquor ban in Mathura, Vrindavan and other pilgrimage sites in UP. Alcohol is also banned in Holy Amritsar. But any such ban in Hindu pilgrimage sites causes an uproar

 

 

Terrible decision by Yogi. Why is our standard a joke of a country called Saudi Arabia?

 

This impacts livelihood (not just butcher community), and govt can't decide what people should consume. Does Mathura not have Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, meat eating Hindus? You don't like meat, don't buy...but how can you force someone else to abstain?

 

What will poor dairy farmers do now with old/dry cattle? What will nomadic shepherds, goatherders, fishermen etc. do once their centuries old profession is under attack? Will govt compensate them? Doubling farmers income, how? As such they are financially burdened, do UCs sitting in metros want those poor people to suffer, how selfish!!!!!

 

Also we have many holy Hindu sites in India, you want same rules in Madurai, Haridwar, Jammu, Tirupati, Puri to give tit for tat response to some assclown sitting in Saudi? Max they can come up with a rule to prohibit meat sale/consumption within the premises of the temple complex. 

 

Same BJP scumbags were pushing for bali ban in East India. Always poking their noses in other people's business. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Gollum

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Terrible decision by Yogi. Why is our standard a joke of a country called Saudi Arabia?

 

This impacts livelihood (not just butcher community), and govt can't decide what people should consume. Does Mathura not have Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, meat eating Hindus? You don't like meat, don't buy...but how can you force someone else to abstain?

 

What will poor dairy farmers do know with old/dry cattle? Will govt compensate them? Doubling farmers income, how? As such they are financially burdened, do UCs sitting in metros want those poor people to suffer, how selfish!!!!!

 

Also we have many holy Hindu sites in India, you want same rules in Madurai, Haridwar, Jammu to give tit for tat response to some assclown sitting in Saudi? Max they can come up with a rule to prohibit meat sale/consumption within the premises of the temple complex. 

 

Same BJP scumbags were pushing for bali ban in East India. Always poking their noses in other people's business. 

 

The selective banning is what irks most. If meat and liquor banned in Amritsar for being a holy city, why not Mathura/Vrindavan? 

Libs want liquor banned in the Lakshadweep because of Muslim majority (nothing Holy about it), but cry hoarse when done in Mathura.

[Gollum]

Even alcohol ban was stupid, didn't support when Nitish enforced it.

 

Won't support here. In fact I want our judiciary to get involved and quash this stupid ban, send a warning to other politicians as well by making an example of UP sarkar. 

 

Bstards won't free Hindu temples/mutts, but do all kinds of stunts to adversely affect livelihoods of millions of Indian citizens. Can't generate a few thousand jobs, but know full well how to take away millions of jobs. Useless, low IQ, extremist goons. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Gollum

[coffee_rules]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Even alcohol ban was stupid, didn't support it when Nitish enforced it.

 

Won't support here. In fact I want our judiciary to get involved and quash this stupid ban. 

 

Bstards won't free Hindu temples/mutts, but do all kinds of jumlas to adversely affect livelihoods of millions of Indian citizens. Can't generate a few thousand jobs, but know full well how to take away jobs. Useless, low IQ, extremist goons. 

Election year. Yogi has to deliver UP for BJP, else , it is curtains for MoSha in 2024. You will see all kinds of such policies in the coming year. Also, for temple management, there should be a strong local eco system of devotees, visting devotees, trustees, sampradaya families that should take over temple mnagement. Without such infrastructure and the way Hindus are divided over deities over caste, Govt has to intervene. But taking over Badrinath/Kedarnath has to be challenged at all costs.

[Gollum]

1. Malnourished population

2. Stagnating incomes of farmers

3. Unemployment at a record high

 

Only in India will you have a govt working hard to make 1-3 worse instead of solving them. 

[Gollum]

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Election year. Yogi has to deliver UP for BJP, else , it is curtains for MoSha in 2024. You will see all kinds of such policies in the coming year.

Do they lack faith in their schemes/policies/governance that they have to resort to such evil means to win bloody elections? 

[Singh bling]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

 

The selective banning is what irks most. If meat and liquor banned in Amritsar for being a holy city, why not Mathura/Vrindavan? 

Libs want liquor banned in the Lakshadweep because of Muslim majority (nothing Holy about it), but cry hoarse when done in Mathura.

It's only banned in walled city of Amritsar not in full Amritsar. I even saw halal meat shops in Amritsar

 

.https://makhanfish.com/

It's very famous for non veg and alcohol

[Mariyam]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Meat and Liquor ban in Mathura, Vrindavan and other pilgrimage sites in UP. Alcohol is also banned in Holy Amritsar. But any such ban in Hindu pilgrimage sites causes an uproar

 

 

Terrible tweet.

 

What has Zainab to do with what is or isn't banned in Saudi? 

What is all this "You guys" nonsense?

Totally confused behaviour by large swathes of the RW. On one hand they feel it necessary to remind everyone how Indian Muslim's are Indians/converts. On the other hand, when convenient,  lump Indian Muslims with Arabs/wider Ummah.

[coffee_rules]

3 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Terrible tweet.

 

What has Zainab to do with what is or isn't banned in Saudi? 

What is all this "You guys" nonsense?

Totally confused behaviour by large swathes of the RW. On one hand they feel it necessary to remind everyone how Indian Muslim's are Indians/converts. On the other hand, when convenient,  lump Indian Muslims with Arabs/wider Ummah.

I though I copied Zainab's tweet, included his response instead. The focus is on original comment. Why is the meat ban seen as "coming to get us" kind of response from some of these Muslim progressives? I concur that the ban could be around a walled city limits around the Holy sites. But, this kind of victim mentality has to be noted. The economic impact is more that freedom to eat here. But, why do you want to eat meat and liquor around the Holy sites - Ram and Krishna Janmabhoomi sites?

[Mariyam]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

The selective banning is what irks most. If meat and liquor banned in Amritsar for being a holy city, why not Mathura/Vrindavan? 

Libs want liquor banned in the Lakshadweep because of Muslim majority (nothing Holy about it), but cry hoarse when done in Mathura.

How about you look at this from the prism of practicality, historical and legal precedent? Forget the reaction by the 'libs'. Let's not get so carried away by the reaction that you don't look at the actual change that you support.

Has there been a situation where you've had localised district /municipality level prohibition? How practical do you think this is?

All the Prohibition in India thus far has been at a State Level. The experience overwhelmingly has been a massive loss of exchequer for the state and huge bootlegging set up to fill the pockets of the rulers/administration/police. Happens in Gujarat. Happens in Bihar. Happened in Bombay Presidency. 

There is also the question of setting a precedent: Would you be okay, if say, the govt of Rajasthan decides to ban Alcohol and Pork across all of Ajmer because of the Dargah of the Khwaja? 

 

[Mariyam]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

I though I copied Zainab's tweet, included his response instead. The focus is on original comment. Why is the meat ban seen as "coming to get us" kind of response from some of these Muslim progressives? I concur that the ban could be around a walled city limits around the Holy sites. But, this kind of victim mentality has to be noted. The economic impact is more that freedom to eat here. But, why do you want to eat meat and liquor around the Holy sites - Ram and Krishna Janmabhoomi sites?

Why do you call it victim mentality? Livelihoods will be lost. That is a legitimate concern. What happens to those in the meat selling/poultry farming business in the vicinity? Not to mention losses for all from ancillary industries. From what I read, it's not just the immediate surroundings of the holy places but a city wide ban. 

[coffee_rules]

37 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Why do you call it victim mentality? Livelihoods will be lost. That is a legitimate concern. What happens to those in the meat selling/poultry farming business in the vicinity? Not to mention losses for all from ancillary industries. From what I read, it's not just the immediate surroundings of the holy places but a city wide ban. 

Shift to dairy with Govt help. 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, Singh bling said:

It's only banned in walled city of Amritsar not in full Amritsar. I even saw halal meat shops in Amritsar

 

.https://makhanfish.com/

It's very famous for non veg and alcohol

There is a similar ban in Vrindavan since 2017, this one in Mathura might get to a similar one around the site. The whole city is not practical and it will lead to blackmarketing and bootlegging. 

[Gollum]

14 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Shift to dairy with Govt help. 

Under this govt we are seeing record level of unemployment. What makes you think these centuries old professions (snatched away in a jiffy) can be replaced? 

 

Please be a bit more sensitive towards poor folks who will lose their jobs because of this....demo, pandemic/lockdown, and now this. No human should go through this kind of economic suffering. 

 

One of the most evil moves by any democratically elected govt. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Gollum

[ravishingravi]

I support the ban. It wont be implemented overnight. I support it not for Mathura being pilgrimage site. I support it because it is a statement. And its seemingly sad that the world we live in requires us to make these statements.

 

I wont be surprised if ban is declared and it take 5 years to implement it.