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Unrest mounts across multiple US cities over the death of George Floyd


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21 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Riots following Trayvon/Michael brown's deaths were actual outrage. Ferguson was actual outrage, as was the 'blacklivesmatter' on social media. I don't think anyone expected that kind of violence. That was a real eye-opener.

 

These riots, on the other hand, seem very orchestrated. Corporate america and the political parties have perfectly crafted responses, they've been far too opportunistic for this to be 'organic'. Blacklivesmatter has been adopted by the democrats for the purpose of political campaigning, and corporate america for the purpose of public relations. That's the reality we're witnessing here.

 

At the end of the day, blacks are as screwed as before, because they have no individual autonomy and no collective voice. Imagine somebody using your thoughts and ideas for their own benefit.

You must listen to what Malcolm X thought of democrats.

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On 6/4/2020 at 8:17 AM, Manny_Pacquiao said:

 

Liberals don't give a **** about black lives. They are co-opting the 'black cause' for votes by not allowing blacks to speak for themselves.

 

Corporate america is using 'racism' as a public relations tool: "buy our product, we are not racist!!!"

 

I don't know where you live, but in NY/NJ, whites live in segregated, often gated communities and refuse to send their kids to schools in 'low test score' neighborhoods (chartered, public schools), they refuse to hire minorities on account on them 'lacking the right qualifications', and their activism is for public display only. I know this because my family lives in a mostly white, 'upper class' neighborhood.

 

Amazing how these riots happen far away from where the 'white liberals' actually live. Destroying poor communities and their loss-making businesses. Think of your local desi uncles having their small stores burned to the ground...like we saw in ferguson back in 2013. what a waste of time.

That is why you need to move away from shitty NY/NJ area. Crowded, overcongested tripe.

 

I breathe the clean air of the Mountains and gorgeous high altitude. However, your point about segregation is true to a point, but it is not like that everywhere. When I was younger and less wealthy, I used to live in a pretty decent middle class neighborhood which was quiet diverse with Whites, Blacks, and Asians. I had two immediate neighbors who were black families. No issues whatsoever.

 

I have several friends who live in Atlanta, Detroit and Bay area suburbs who live in even more integrated neighborhoods which are middle to upper middle class. Where I live now is a upper class neighborhood and it is very white, but the reasons might have to do more with economics than race. I know plenty of white liberals who do give a damn about race relations. I personally know several white friends and colleagues who are marching and protesting. Maybe you live around shitty fake people and there are plenty of them everywhere. You just have to pick and choose who you roll with.

 

Personally, I give a damn about the things I said. Again, I do not have extreme views. There is fault on both sides, but cops in this country are over militarized and trained to be overly aggressive especially against minorities brown and black. I went to school in Missouri and I have faced overt racism from locals and cops on numerous occasions. I do not know how many times I have been stopped by cops for lame excuses when I was a student. Once I moved out of that state, things got much easier. 

Edited by Audiophile
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5 hours ago, Audiophile said:

That is why you need to move away from shitty NY/NJ area. Crowded, overcongested tripe.

 

I breathe the clean air of the Mountains and gorgeous high altitude. However, your point about segregation is true to a point, but it is not like that everywhere. When I was younger and less wealthy, I used to live in a pretty decent middle class neighborhood which was quiet diverse with Whites, Blacks, and Asians. I had two immediate neighbors who were black families. No issues whatsoever.

 

I have several friends who live in Atlanta, Detroit and Bay area suburbs who live in even more integrated neighborhoods which are middle to upper middle class. Where I live now is a upper class neighborhood and it is very white, but the reasons might have to do more with economics than race. I know plenty of white liberals who do give a damn about race relations. I personally know several white friends and colleagues who are marching and protesting. Maybe you live around shitty fake people and there are plenty of them everywhere. You just have to pick and choose who you roll with.

 

Personally, I give a damn about the things I said. Again, I do not have extreme views. There is fault on both sides, but cops in this country are over militarized and trained to be overly aggressive especially against minorities brown and black. I went to school in Missouri and I have faced overt racism from locals and cops on numerous occasions. I do not know how many times I have been stopped by cops for lame excuses when I was a student. Once I moved out of that state, things got much easier. 

 

NY/NJ has many beautiful, pristine neighborhoods. Most american cities are the same - you have wealthy neighborhoods with great quality of life, and shitty, crime-ridden, neighborhoods with an underclass of blacks/latinos and working class immigrants. The boundaries are clearly drawn. And i don't mind militarized police...they keep my neighborhood safe and secluded, the way it should be. This is why i sympathized with george zimmerman (if you remember that whole controversy).

 

Centuries of legal segregation and well-planned urbanization ensured that rich and poor almost never share the same spaces (like they do in indian cities, for example). As a result, America was never formally de-segregated. Differences are seen in property values and population density, but its more or less the same everywhere.

 

I have never experienced any 'racism' (not counting school, kids are kids). I have no issues with the 'whites' or 'blacks' i know, my observation was an honest one. People say one thing in public to appear 'civil' and they might say or think something else behind closed doors. That's how it is. My parents have sat on a few 'townhall' meetings, they notice the same thing. Ultimately, actions speak louder than words or performative activism, the actions never match the endless rhetoric. And here's why:

 

White liberal activism is performative and deprives blacks of their personal autonomy. It's almost like the white community has a veto power, an authority on matters relating to american society. Until anti-racism initiatives benefit politicians, corporations and white society at large in some way, they're not worth the hassle.  This is less about justice for blacks, and more about the credit to be taken by the whites for any visible 'progress'.

 

These are the outcomes i notice. There's no genuine change on the ground. There can't be. Its like the caste issue in many parts of india. If you have caste enshrined in law, you'll constantly have politicians/vested interests playing one caste against another. The same is true in america. A society that categorizes human beings as 'white', 'black', 'asian', 'hispanic' will always be hierarchical by design. There is no 'both sides' to this subject.

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5 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

 

NY/NJ has many beautiful, pristine neighborhoods. Most american cities are the same - you have wealthy neighborhoods with great quality of life, and shitty, crime-ridden, neighborhoods with an underclass of blacks/latinos and working class immigrants. The boundaries are clearly drawn. And i don't mind militarized police...they keep my neighborhood safe and secluded, the way it should be. This is why i sympathized with george zimmerman (if you remember that whole controversy).

 

Centuries of legal segregation and well-planned urbanization ensured that rich and poor almost never share the same spaces (like they do in indian cities, for example). As a result, America was never formally de-segregated. Differences are seen in property values and population density, but its more or less the same everywhere.

 

I have never experienced any 'racism' (not counting school, kids are kids). I have no issues with the 'whites' or 'blacks' i know, my observation was an honest one. People say one thing in public to appear 'civil' and they might say or think something else behind closed doors. That's how it is. My parents have sat on a few 'townhall' meetings, they notice the same thing. Ultimately, actions speak louder than words or performative activism, the actions never match the endless rhetoric. And here's why:

 

White liberal activism is performative and deprives blacks of their personal autonomy. It's almost like the white community has a veto power, an authority on matters relating to american society. Until anti-racism initiatives benefit politicians, corporations and white society at large in some way, they're not worth the hassle.  This is less about justice for blacks, and more about the credit to be taken by the whites for any visible 'progress'.

 

These are the outcomes i notice. There's no genuine change on the ground. There can't be. Its like the caste issue in many parts of india. If you have caste enshrined in law, you'll constantly have politicians/vested interests playing one caste against another. The same is true in america. A society that categorizes human beings as 'white', 'black', 'asian', 'hispanic' will always be hierarchical by design. There is no 'both sides' to this subject.

Your experience is NOT the only experience. If you form your opinions just based on your experience, then you won't understand or empathize how it feels to be in other's shoes. Thia is a typical characteristic of a conservative. They are not interested unless they are affected personally. That is your prerogative. It is a free society.

 

I am done with this discussion and any further back and forth does not help enhance the discussion, and will waste both of our times, IMO.

Edited by Audiophile
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On 6/4/2020 at 8:16 PM, FischerTal said:

Yup. Democrats know that Biden has a slim chance against Trump, so they have started this violence to portray Trump as incompetent , but it’s going to end up counter-polarizing Whites to vote for Trump enmasse. If you look at most American cities, they have been run by Democrats for years, yet they never took any concrete action against systemic racism. They don’t give a rats ass about black lives. They’re just a votebank for them that will be riled up before a major election to make sure you can get maximum turnout. They are really desperate. 

I don't understand the math here. All the white conservatives already voted for Trump in 2016 and he still had 2 million fewer votes than Clinton. White voter turnout is usually high, and was even higher in 2016. The black voter turnout is what is usually low (except the Obama elections in 2008, and less so in 2012). White voter turnout is already essential maximal, it can't get higher. Black voter turnout could be much higher in 2020 if they are galvanized to vote due to George Floyd issue. It will comedown to Metro Detroit and Philadelphia (both heavily black cities), which could decide the critical states of Michigan and Pennsylvania.  

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8 hours ago, The Cricket Cast said:

I don't understand the math here. All the white conservatives already voted for Trump in 2016 and he still had 2 million fewer votes than Clinton. White voter turnout is usually high, and was even higher in 2016. The black voter turnout is what is usually low (except the Obama elections in 2008, and less so in 2012). White voter turnout is already essential maximal, it can't get higher. Black voter turnout could be much higher in 2020 if they are galvanized to vote due to George Floyd issue. It will comedown to Metro Detroit and Philadelphia (both heavily black cities), which could decide the critical states of Michigan and Pennsylvania.  

White independent voters are the key. they swing back and forth from Republicans to Democrats and vice versa

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I wonder what is the Indian prospective? Blacks do various bullying and harassment to Indians, going after Indian kids, shop owners or colleagues. It can be for vegetarian, cultural stereotypes, caste or simply bullying for soft-spoken manner of Indians. Comparatively, white are restrained and wary of the cultural sensitives towards India.

 

Of course, it's a small sample. But I think, many Indian institutions should use this hot topic, to build awareness, improve cultural sensitivity with black community. As currently, they don't offer support to Indian people or causes. How many of them demanded justice when an Indian person is killed?

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13 hours ago, The Cricket Cast said:

I don't understand the math here. All the white conservatives already voted for Trump in 2016 and he still had 2 million fewer votes than Clinton. White voter turnout is usually high, and was even higher in 2016. The black voter turnout is what is usually low (except the Obama elections in 2008, and less so in 2012). White voter turnout is already essential maximal, it can't get higher. Black voter turnout could be much higher in 2020 if they are galvanized to vote due to George Floyd issue. It will comedown to Metro Detroit and Philadelphia (both heavily black cities), which could decide the critical states of Michigan and Pennsylvania.  

Popular vote is irrelevant.

 

You're completely ignoring the mobilization of the white vote. Democrats pandering to black votes further polarizes whites. Never under-estimate the silent majority. Especially across the mid-west/flyover country. White working class is more vulnerable, and this 'race-baiting' doesn't impress them.

 

The key is whether trump can maintain his 'anti-establishment' image. I'm not sure he can; the so called 'deep state' and corporate america are on the other side, and there's a rift within the republican party.

 

Whites always vote as a bloc, and they could simply vote in favor of trump as a way of saying one last 'f*** you' to the establishment. This is not an undesirable outcome for both parties, as it would ensure that trump's brand of politics gets a guaranteed expiration date.

 

My feeling is the dems are laying the groundwork for 2024 and focusing on a 'browner' america bringing them back. And future policy-makers are looking at changing America's image from that of a predominantly 'white' country defined by its judeo-christian heritage, to a more 'liberal' and superficially diverse country.

 

I'm also happy that somebody here sees all this bullshit for what it really is, political and corporate opportunism. Instead of talking about how 'they know people who marched'.

Edited by Manny_Pacquiao
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4 hours ago, someone said:

I wonder what is the Indian prospective? Blacks do various bullying and harassment to Indians, going after Indian kids, shop owners or colleagues. It can be for vegetarian, cultural stereotypes, caste or simply bullying for soft-spoken manner of Indians. Comparatively, white are restrained and wary of the cultural sensitives towards India.

 

Of course, it's a small sample. But I think, many Indian institutions should use this hot topic, to build awareness, improve cultural sensitivity with black community. As currently, they don't offer support to Indian people or causes. How many of them demanded justice when an Indian person is killed?

 

Blacks and indians don't share the same neighborhoods. Indians in america are very well off, and they live in upper class, white neighborhoods. My parents could probably live the rest of their lives saying less than 2 sentences to a black person. LOL. That's the reality for most 'indian-americans'.

 

However, there is an underclass of immigrants from south asia - not necessarily india - who live and work in mostly black neighborhoods. Deli, fried chicken, newstand, bodega, liquor store. Those guys are a little more 'at risk'. Blacks are semi-literate and poor, there's no point in reasoning with them.

 

In some of the crappier neighborhoods in new jersey, I have seen cashiers in pakistani-owned fried chicken shops sitting behind protective screens and a microphone. Surveillance cameras in the corner. They're scared of getting shot, so they'll hand your order & cash through a small hole in the screen. It was incredibly weird. You'd expect to see something like this in a prison.

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27 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

Bernstein and Cohen. Jewish people are always disproportionately involved in such matters.

Also freemasons. Jews act like they support blacks and freemasons act like racist white people and gangster black and other non-white people thus indulging in controlled chaos so that they can bring in the order with more draconian laws

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