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Unrest mounts across multiple US cities over the death of George Floyd


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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

would like know whether only blacks died due to police brutality in recent past or whites too.

Also how many white policemen die at the hands of blacks as opposed to other races.......for them to react differently during their law enforcement duties.

 

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3 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

 

 

I'll ignore the 'intent' part (because that effectively means they're not actually doing anything) - and focus on the 'community-led public safety'.

 

I wonder what that means. Something like this?

 

koreatownlariots-THEAMERICANDREAM.jpg

 

or this?

 

 

What do you think?

@BacktoCricaddict @Audiophile @The Cricket Cast

If true, this is a ridiculous over-reaction by the City Council.  The state can legislate to abolish qualified immunity, and local governments can re-train their police force to shift from a warrior to guardian mentality.  Other cities have done it by recruiting and training a force whose members are more in-tune with the locals.  It is not easy, but it can be done.  

 

On the other hand, it could simply mean that the municipality of the "City of Minneapolis" will disband its police force and shift more responsibility to other entities like the County Sheriff, making the whole move moot.  

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9 hours ago, beetle said:

Also how many white policemen die at the hands of blacks as opposed to other races.......for them to react differently during their law enforcement duties.

 

None of that should matter to an LEO who is in a situation with an individual.  Just because X,Y and Z killed white cops and X, Y and Z were black, you cannot assume A, B and C are also cop-killers and preemptively punish them because they are also black.  I understand it is not an easy job and have utmost respect for LEOs, but they should be trained better to react to a person, not to a black person, white person or Asian person etc.   

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On 6/6/2020 at 12:34 AM, Audiophile said:

That is why you need to move away from shitty NY/NJ area. Crowded, overcongested tripe.

 

I breathe the clean air of the Mountains and gorgeous high altitude. However, your point about segregation is true to a point, but it is not like that everywhere. When I was younger and less wealthy, I used to live in a pretty decent middle class neighborhood which was quiet diverse with Whites, Blacks, and Asians. I had two immediate neighbors who were black families. No issues whatsoever.

 

I have several friends who live in Atlanta, Detroit and Bay area suburbs who live in even more integrated neighborhoods which are middle to upper middle class. Where I live now is a upper class neighborhood and it is very white, but the reasons might have to do more with economics than race. I know plenty of white liberals who do give a damn about race relations. I personally know several white friends and colleagues who are marching and protesting. Maybe you live around shitty fake people and there are plenty of them everywhere. You just have to pick and choose who you roll with.

 

Personally, I give a damn about the things I said. Again, I do not have extreme views. There is fault on both sides, but cops in this country are over militarized and trained to be overly aggressive especially against minorities brown and black. I went to school in Missouri and I have faced overt racism from locals and cops on numerous occasions. I do not know how many times I have been stopped by cops for lame excuses when I was a student. Once I moved out of that state, things got much easier. 

As an impoverished graduate student and post-doctoral researcher, I lived in pretty downtrodden areas in the South for several years. Never had any problems.  One of my neighbors had just been released from prison for a petty drug crime and was eking out a living washing dishes at a Marriott.  Other than the fact that he stood up his fiance on their wedding day, he was one of the nicest people.      

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28 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

None of that should matter to an LEO who is in a situation with an individual.  Just because X,Y and Z killed white cops and X, Y and Z were black, you cannot assume A, B and C are also cop-killers and preemptively punish them because they are also black.  I understand it is not an easy job and have utmost respect for LEOs, but they should be trained better to react to a person, not to a black person, white person or Asian person etc.   

Just wanted to know the stats ....no one is justifying any kinds of killings.

Just saw the video that said more whites are killed by police and also that this year had far less killings by cops ,both whites and blacks .....compared to previous years.

So wondering how much of the protests is because of the election due this year and how much is a genuine movement.

 

 

 

 

Edited by beetle
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10 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

 

 

I'll ignore the 'intent' part (because that effectively means they're not actually doing anything) - and focus on the 'community-led public safety'.

 

I wonder what that means. Something like this?

 

koreatownlariots-THEAMERICANDREAM.jpg

 

or this?

 

 

What do you think?

@BacktoCricaddict @Audiophile @The Cricket Cast

So, Minneapolis city council wants to disband the PD. In that scenario, it will be a place of “privilege” to call the police, if somebody breaks open your house, as it will cause more harm than good. Matlab, anarchists want a free run in society, if we have more such people talking, Trump will have 4 more years.

 

 

Edited by coffee_rules
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4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

So, Minneapolis city council wants to disband the PD. In that scenario, it will be a place of “privilege” to call the police, if somebody breaks open your house, as it will cause more harm than good. Matlab, anarchists want a free run in society, if we have more such people talking, Trump will have 4 more years.

 

 

Total over-reaction.  Instead of training police to treat minorities better, you want to disband the force? 

 

<Insert Baby bathwater analogy here>

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On 6/6/2020 at 11:21 PM, FischerTal said:

White independent voters are the key. they swing back and forth from Republicans to Democrats and vice versa

True, but I don't see how Trump gets a net gain of white Ind voters due to the George Floyd protests. Its safe to assume that anyone who changes to pro-Trump solely based on the BLM protests is essentially "racist" to use a somewhat simplistic label. Trump already got 99% of the share of that bloc in 2016. He can't increase his vote share because its already maximal.

 

On the other hand, there were also white Ind voters who voted for Trump in 2016 because HRC was poor candidate overall, Trump is a man, figured Trump would be better for the economy, etc. In theory, some of them could jump ship for a host of reasons (mishandling COVID crisis, overturning long-standing democracy norms, affinity for foreign authoritarians, and a dozen other percieved failings).  

 

You have to remember the 2016 margin was razor thin. Trump won Michigan by less than 11,000 votes. He won Pennsylvania by  just 45,000. Both states have a lot of Black people who may be spurred on to vote in record numbers in 2020. Black voter turnout in 2016 was 59.6%, a whopping 7 points less than in 2012. If you take those two states away, Trump has 268 votes, 2 shy of winning the Presidency. 

 

7% of Michigan's African American population of 1.4 million = 98,000 assuming half are adults, that easily makes up the 11,000 Trump lead.

7% of Pennsylvania's AA population of 1.3 million = 91,000. Again assuming half are adults, that almost exactly equals Trump's 45,000 lead. 

 

85-90% of African Americans vote democratic.

Edited by The Cricket Cast
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4 hours ago, The Cricket Cast said:

True, but I don't see how Trump gets a net gain of white Ind voters due to the George Floyd protests. Its safe to assume that anyone who changes to pro-Trump solely based on the BLM protests is essentially "racist" to use a somewhat simplistic label. Trump already got 99% of the share of that bloc in 2016. He can't increase his vote share because its already maximal.

 

On the other hand, there were also white Ind voters who voted for Trump in 2016 because HRC was poor candidate overall, Trump is a man, figured Trump would be better for the economy, etc. In theory, some of them could jump ship for a host of reasons (mishandling COVID crisis, overturning long-standing democracy norms, affinity for foreign authoritarians, and a dozen other percieved failings).  

 

You have to remember the 2016 margin was razor thin. Trump won Michigan by less than 11,000 votes. He won Pennsylvania by  just 45,000. Both states have a lot of Black people who may be spurred on to vote in record numbers in 2020. Black voter turnout in 2016 was 59.6%, a whopping 7 points less than in 2012. If you take those two states away, Trump has 268 votes, 2 shy of winning the Presidency. 

 

7% of Michigan's African American population of 1.4 million = 98,000 assuming half are adults, that easily makes up the 11,000 Trump lead.

7% of Pennsylvania's AA population of 1.3 million = 91,000. Again assuming half are adults, that almost exactly equals Trump's 45,000 lead. 

 

85-90% of African Americans vote democratic.

 

Your math adds up, but I'm not sure if blacks will actually vote in big numbers. Will they get behind biden? Who is biden's VP gonna be? And you have the age-old issue of gerrymandering and voter suppression. It's harder for blacks (and poor people in general) to take that day off to vote. Generally, a significant percentage of eligible blacks have no faith in America, and would probably abstain from voting anyway (this point is hardly mentioned in mainstream media). You can't take their participation for granted, and i think the democrats know this. Probably why they're going extra-hard to grab the attention of the black community by calling this a 'defining moment in america's history'.

 

Joe biden has a lot of skeletons in the closet that trump will almost certainly discover and make everyone aware of (like the 1994 crime bill). This is what killed kamala harris before she could get off the ground. I'm just playing devil's advocate, but there's a long way to go here.

 

Finally, and i could be dead wrong here...because my 'social circle' is probably just as sheltered as i am - but i don't know ANYONE who votes for a candidate on grounds of his record on 'race relations'. Most voters - white or non-white - see all this drama for what it truly is - opportunistic pandering. The economy is the only thing that really matters. However, the race relations stuff makes an impression on teenagers and other first-time voters...who may potentially vote in larger numbers than before.

 

Non-whites make up slightly less than a majority of the teenage population. So the democrats might well be looking at this campaign as an early investment for 2024.

 

Whites, we can safely predict, will turn up at the election booth and vote for 'law and order'. The riots mobilized the white vote by playing to their worst fears. Their turnout will increase. This article summarizes some of the scenarios:

Quote

 

The electorate is not diversifying nearly as fast in the three Rust Belt states that Trump dislodged from the Blue Wall—Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Those states, for years to come, will remain older and whiter than the nation overall, meaning that to win them, Democrats have to run better with older, whiter voters than they do in most places.

And while the minority population is growing steadily in existing and emerging Sun Belt battlegrounds—such as Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, and even Texas—Trump has demonstrated a formidable ability to offset that change by turning out older, rural, evangelical, and blue-collar white people in those places. In stark contrast to the national forecasts, Schwerin says Priorities USA projects that non-college-educated whites will represent a slightly larger share of the vote in the battleground states next time than they did in 2016.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/06/2020-election-voter-turnout-could-be-record-breaking/591607/

 

 

by the way, i like your podcast. you should do a pod on these elections. I'd listen.

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22 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

As an impoverished graduate student and post-doctoral researcher, I lived in pretty downtrodden areas in the South for several years. Never had any problems.  One of my neighbors had just been released from prison for a petty drug crime and was eking out a living washing dishes at a Marriott.  Other than the fact that he stood up his fiance on their wedding day, he was one of the nicest people.      

Like I said, everyone has different experiences. Sometimes it helps to put yourself in other people's shoes even though you may not experience any discrimination. I have a friend who lives in St. Louis who recently was stopped by a white couple while he was jogging in his own neighborhood and was asked questions in an aggressive manner where he is from, why is he jogging here, etc, etc. You think if he was pearly white, he would be stopped in an upper middle class community, that too his own? A couple years back, and Indian guy was shot dead in a restaurant in Kansas City by a lowlife who thought the guy was from Iran. I have relatives who live in NJ just across the Hudson who has been threatened to leave the community or else ...

Discrimination is real. And if we face it as non-whites who have higher standard of living, imagine a black guy from the hood!!! When I was a grad student I mentioned I was stopped by the cops on several occasions for petty reasons. I used to live with a Nigerian student and he was stopped on his way home in the evening almost routinely, like every few days!!

 

Despite all this, US is a great place to live. It's not like in India there is no discrimination.

Edited by Audiophile
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2 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

 

Your math adds up, but I'm not sure if blacks will actually vote in big numbers. Will they get behind biden? Who is biden's VP gonna be? And you have the age-old issue of gerrymandering and voter suppression. It's harder for blacks (and poor people in general) to take that day off to vote. Generally, a significant percentage of eligible blacks have no faith in America, and would probably abstain from voting anyway (this point is hardly mentioned in mainstream media). You can't take their participation for granted, and i think the democrats know this. Probably why they're going extra-hard to grab the attention of the black community by calling this a 'defining moment in america's history'.

 

Joe biden has a lot of skeletons in the closet that trump will almost certainly discover and make everyone aware of (like the 1994 crime bill). This is what killed kamala harris before she could get off the ground. I'm just playing devil's advocate, but there's a long way to go here.

 

Finally, and i could be dead wrong here...because my 'social circle' is probably just as sheltered as i am - but i don't know ANYONE who votes for a candidate on grounds of his record on 'race relations'. Most voters - white or non-white - see all this drama for what it truly is - opportunistic pandering. The economy is the only thing that really matters. However, the race relations stuff makes an impression on teenagers and other first-time voters...who may potentially vote in larger numbers than before.

 

Non-whites make up slightly less than a majority of the teenage population. So the democrats might well be looking at this campaign as an early investment for 2024.

 

Whites, we can safely predict, will turn up at the election booth and vote for 'law and order'. The riots mobilized the white vote by playing to their worst fears. Their turnout will increase. This article summarizes some of the scenarios:

 

by the way, i like your podcast. you should do a pod on these elections. I'd listen.

Right now, Mayor of Atlanta Keisha Lance Bottoms, is the top contender for Biden's VP pick.  He announced he will pick a woman, so she checks that box.  As an AA voice, she also seems to be getting a lot of good press on how well she handled the riots.

 

 

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8 hours ago, The Cricket Cast said:

True, but I don't see how Trump gets a net gain of white Ind voters due to the George Floyd protests. Its safe to assume that anyone who changes to pro-Trump solely based on the BLM protests is essentially "racist" to use a somewhat simplistic label. Trump already got 99% of the share of that bloc in 2016. He can't increase his vote share because its already maximal.

 

On the other hand, there were also white Ind voters who voted for Trump in 2016 because HRC was poor candidate overall, Trump is a man, figured Trump would be better for the economy, etc. In theory, some of them could jump ship for a host of reasons (mishandling COVID crisis, overturning long-standing democracy norms, affinity for foreign authoritarians, and a dozen other percieved failings).  

 

You have to remember the 2016 margin was razor thin. Trump won Michigan by less than 11,000 votes. He won Pennsylvania by  just 45,000. Both states have a lot of Black people who may be spurred on to vote in record numbers in 2020. Black voter turnout in 2016 was 59.6%, a whopping 7 points less than in 2012. If you take those two states away, Trump has 268 votes, 2 shy of winning the Presidency. 

 

7% of Michigan's African American population of 1.4 million = 98,000 assuming half are adults, that easily makes up the 11,000 Trump lead.

7% of Pennsylvania's AA population of 1.3 million = 91,000. Again assuming half are adults, that almost exactly equals Trump's 45,000 lead. 

 

85-90% of African Americans vote democratic.

Yep, the key for Dems will be to get AAs to come out and vote in swing states; they did not come out in large numbers for Hillary.  Flip Florida (25 - looking likely now) and two of PA (20), WI (10) and MI (16), and that'll do it for Biden.    

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10 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Right now, Mayor of Atlanta Keisha Lance Bottoms, is the top contender for Biden's VP pick.  He announced he will pick a woman, so she checks that box.  As an AA voice, she also seems to be getting a lot of good press on how well she handled the riots.

 

 

So...

 

Biden-Bottoms 2020 - 'Black Lives Matter'

 

vs

 

Trump-Pence 2020 - 'Keep America Great'

 

 

Biden Bottoms is surely a bad omen. I'm sure the gay community would find a joke in there somewhere.

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15 hours ago, The Cricket Cast said:

True, but I don't see how Trump gets a net gain of white Ind voters due to the George Floyd protests. Its safe to assume that anyone who changes to pro-Trump solely based on the BLM protests is essentially "racist" to use a somewhat simplistic label. Trump already got 99% of the share of that bloc in 2016. He can't increase his vote share because its already maximal.

 

On the other hand, there were also white Ind voters who voted for Trump in 2016 because HRC was poor candidate overall, Trump is a man, figured Trump would be better for the economy, etc. In theory, some of them could jump ship for a host of reasons (mishandling COVID crisis, overturning long-standing democracy norms, affinity for foreign authoritarians, and a dozen other percieved failings).  

 

You have to remember the 2016 margin was razor thin. Trump won Michigan by less than 11,000 votes. He won Pennsylvania by  just 45,000. Both states have a lot of Black people who may be spurred on to vote in record numbers in 2020. Black voter turnout in 2016 was 59.6%, a whopping 7 points less than in 2012. If you take those two states away, Trump has 268 votes, 2 shy of winning the Presidency. 

 

7% of Michigan's African American population of 1.4 million = 98,000 assuming half are adults, that easily makes up the 11,000 Trump lead.

7% of Pennsylvania's AA population of 1.3 million = 91,000. Again assuming half are adults, that almost exactly equals Trump's 45,000 lead. 

 

85-90% of African Americans vote democratic.

again, this is a simplistic view. I would ask you to read this article when it comes to analyzing the White swing voter.  I do believe the Democrats will end up sacrificing many of these voters with the recent protests, which have been largely constricted to Blue states. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/the-tyranny-of-the-unwoke-white-swing-voter.html

 

and NYMag is by no means a conservative outlet. 

Edited by FischerTal
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What I don't understand about BLM movement is why All lives matter is considered anti bln.

 

I get that it is time for issues of black people to be highlighted...but  how does it make all lives matter 'racist'. All lives include black lives.

 

And how are slogans like' black lives matter more' or ' no lives matter till black lives matter' not racist. 

 

Please don't use the house on fire explanation . All lives should matter and people should not be asked to be apologetic for that.

 

Something else I don't understand is why celebrities or influences on SM media are being shamed and forced to support the movement ,even the ones who are not Americans or who themselves are colored ( not black) .

Not just shamed but bullied for not supporting the way the ' movement activist' feel is the right way. People are being forced to donate .

 

Even people with plant life blogs or kitten blogs are being shamed for not becoming supporters enough.

These vigilantes bullies are like the rioters who are using the movement to get their few days of power .

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