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Clarke

Escalation at India-China border

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10 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Really!? PP Indian posters will be so roasted.

 

BBC refuses to show Chinese casualties. 

Bc kuch ko chorkar sarey dalley hai PP Indian posters. Their sole agenda is blame modi even for china incursion and whatever happening now. Those chewts don't understand that it's attack on India but still they are trying to score points by blaming modi/bhakts bla bla. 

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3 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

The truth is that the Chinese soldiers are not battle hardened.

Even one of their major news paper claimed that Indian mountain army is strongest in the world not America not Russia. Also I read somewhere that most of their soldiers have not fought a small/large scale war in 40 years. So ya they can rule the world on cheap products but can't do the same with their military.

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10 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

The truth is that the Chinese soldiers are not battle hardened. Our forces due to Kashmir are.

 

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Even one of their major news paper claimed that Indian mountain army is strongest in the world not America not Russia. Also I read somewhere that most of their soldiers have not fought a small/large scale war in 40 years. So ya they can rule the world on cheap products but can't do the same with their military.

Chalo, the only thing we thank Pak army for :yess:

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34 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

So a few key broader points.

 

(a) India needs to continue to build infrastructure along the border. China is ridiculous. They build all the infra they want and when India does the same they escalate. This whole issue started when India started building roads.

 

 

This is the main issue. China's road construction is what inspired the doklam standoff. The construction stopped when both governments agreed to respect each others borders (plus some other stuff that we didn't hear about).

 

If india violates the terms of that agreement by building roads and highways on both east and western sides of the border, then you'll see more of these conflicts. The borders are not clearly recognized by either side. China lays claim to arunachal pradesh and owns a piece of kashmir.

 

Personally, i have no issues with this. If india builds roads on its side of the 'border' (wherever they think it lies), then china will probably make an incursion.

 

There will be small scale conflicts every couple of years, but no actual war. The situation will be similar to the one we see in kashmir, where a disputed territory sees mobilized troops on both sides of a 'line of control'. This is what we describe as a 'hot peace', as opposed to a cold war...confrontations quickly followed by mutually accepted crisis management, and de-escalation.

 

It's not as fun or entertaining as an actual war or bombing campaign - its actually quite boring and predictable - but with both countries trying to 'project power' at a regional level, this will become normal.

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15 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

So a few key broader points.

 

(a) India needs to continue to build infrastructure along the border. China is ridiculous. They build all the infra they want and when India does the same they escalate. This whole issue started when India started building roads. 

 

(b) They cannot be trusted to keep even the simplest of terms. The military commanders negotiating needs to never agree to anything. 

 

(c) China needs to know that they will have a loss of life. Be it due to the Indian army or the terrain or the combination of both. India will continue to press. Its the price they will have to pay. The truth is that the Chinese soldiers are not battle hardened. Our forces due to Kashmir are.

 

(d) Chinese deaths should also send a message to Nepal. If India can directly can stand its ground to China, Nepals fate will be much worse. Let them draw whatever map they want in their parliament. If they back this up with actions there will be a heavy price.

 

 

China has been building roads for decades.  India started playing catch-up over last few years.  The Chinese see that, and realize that in a few years, it will be increasingly harder to project or make maximalist claims along LAC.  I.e. the window of opportunity for them to utilize their logistical and economic advantages is starting to close.  That, along with the opportunistic use of the COVID crisis, is the reason for this latest round of escalation along the LAC.  Its Occam's Razor stuff.  

 

Indian army obviously has the disadvantage of not being the first mover. And facing an adversary with a massive advantage in resources and tech.  BUT, the terrain is a great equalizer.  With adequacy of intent, prompt action can yet be enough to make a massive difference on historical outcome.  

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11 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

There will be small scale conflicts every couple of years, but no actual war. The situation will be similar to the one we see in kashmir, where a disputed territory sees mobilized troops on both sides of a 'line of control'. This is what we describe as a 'hot peace', as opposed to a cold war...confrontations quickly followed by mutually accepted crisis management, and de-escalation.

In the best case scenario, such jostling is usually seen increased, right before a mutually acceptable 'final' settlement of the border takes place - as both parties, but especially the one with some advantage at the moment, try to "lock in" maximum gains before negotiated settlement. 

 

Lets hope thats the case here, and not some nutjob CCP masterplan of intentionally initiating conflict a la 1962 to try and strategically cut off India at the knees.

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23 minutes ago, sandeep said:

In the best case scenario, such jostling is usually seen increased, right before a mutually acceptable 'final' settlement of the border takes place - as both parties, but especially the one with some advantage at the moment, try to "lock in" maximum gains before negotiated settlement. 

 

Lets hope thats the case here, and not some nutjob CCP masterplan of intentionally initiating conflict a la 1962 to try and strategically cut off India at the knees.

Don't worry there won't be a nutjob by china. 

 

This will go on for sometime but nothing big

 

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45 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

 

Good.

 

This is what Modi has done. Leave the critical decisions of what to do or not to do to the army. The mandate is simple, ensure our territorial sovereignty. Jaishankar well take care of things at a macro level. Give them a free hand. The rhetoric of 56 inches aside, thats all what is needed. Neither Modi nor Rahul Gandhi know the specific details of the terrain or anything else. Modi's gov job is simple. Provide the troops on the frontline with proper equipment and ensure that their families are well cared for at home.

 

As well wishers of India we can ensure our soldiers families dont want for anything by donating what we can.

 

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39 minutes ago, sandeep said:

One shouldn't be so confident about his assumptions, when the reality is that neither of us have enough information or insight into the motivations and objectives of the PLA and CCP.

There are no assumptions here. 

 

Its a given thing. The matter is not really in limelight due to covid crisis all across the world and china thus is taking that advantage. 

 

As soon as the covid crisis calms down, china will resort to some sort of settlement and not make it a big thing. 

 

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8 hours ago, Autonomous said:

There are no assumptions here. 

 

Its a given thing. The matter is not really in limelight due to covid crisis all across the world and china thus is taking that advantage. 

 

As soon as the covid crisis calms down, china will resort to some sort of settlement and not make it a big thing. 

 

Again, you seem to be really cocksure of your prediction, without really knowing all or even some portion of the actual facts.

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9 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

Good.

 

This is what Modi has done. Leave the critical decisions of what to do or not to do to the army. The mandate is simple, ensure our territorial sovereignty. Jaishankar well take care of things at a macro level. Give them a free hand. The rhetoric of 56 inches aside, thats all what is needed. Neither Modi nor Rahul Gandhi know the specific details of the terrain or anything else. Modi's gov job is simple. Provide the troops on the frontline with proper equipment and ensure that their families are well cared for at home.

 

As well wishers of India we can ensure our soldiers families dont want for anything by donating what we can.

 

That's the least thing you expect from Modi govt.. he'll give free hand to Army every time there is a need..  that's why nationalists people trust Modi.. 

 

Aur yeh Rahul Gandhi... twitter pe puch raha he ki 'why PM is silent?'... Abbe dhakkan, in politics you need to know where to speak up and where not to.. 

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I think we are at the very early stages of a long battle ahead. China is now asserting itself. The world will respond. We are in the neighbourhood. 

 

Time to pull ourselves together and see how we can make a difference in our communities. 

 

Being self reliant is the only way out of this now.

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"American intelligence believes 35 Chinese troops died, including one senior officer, a source familiar with that assessment tells U.S. News. "

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-06-16/dozens-killed-as-india-china-face-off-in-first-deadly-clash-in-decades

 

I am finding it extremely hard to believe that bullets were not fired...info coming from multiple sources that Chinese choppers flew in (and were allowed by India) to airlift their dead....

 

also saw at one twitter source (seemed a somewhat reliable account) 45 indians soldiers were abducted, 25 released ....110 injured iirc being treated at hospitals.

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