Alam_dar Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, velu said: both are persian names , not related to turkish central asians are mostly turkish except tajiks who are poor Persians Exactly. Both Turkish and Persian empires were rivals to each other too. Nevertheless, Persian culture seems to be very old and civilised. While Turkish culture seems to be wild as compared to the Persian one. But Aurangzeb is a Persian name. Aurangzeb (Persian: "Ornament of the Throne") and Alamgir (Persian: "Conqueror of the World") coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Its not a pakistani specific thing, its a muslim thing. I had a muslim from bangalore as a roommate in US. He was always about the Iraq war. In that time, a young US soldier who lived next door and sometimes used to hang with us was about to be positioned in Iraq. We all wished him to be safe and well. As the door was shut, this muslim guy cursed him saying "marega saala". This is an educated msulim. My muslim friend from high school is always about rohingyas, kashmiris and gujarat riots. Usually a tamil rarely talks about other states. Anything north of south India is naarthie country So I asked him why do you bother with these issues tongue firmly in cheek. He just changed the topic. Never discussed the actual point. he is otherwise a nice guy but its a mental disease these people are carrying. may god allah help them raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Also there is nothing else for Pakistan. You take away the religion from Middle East, they are still Arabs, they do have an identity. Pakistanis and many Indian Muslims converts loathe their Hindu roots and past. Thus, the result is toxicity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, someone said: Also there is nothing else for Pakistan. You take away the religion from Middle East, they are still Arabs, they do have an identity. Pakistanis and many Indian Muslims converts loathe their Hindu roots and past. Thus, the result is toxicity... No, when non Muslims are in majority, they criticize Muslim minority. If Muslims are in majority, they covert non Muslim minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Vilander said: I dislike supporting a bigot like the poster you responded to and arguing with someone like you. But Mariyam what is your point ? Wannabe Persian is ok ? That Indian Muslims are justified in naming themselves after central Asian or Persian names vs Arabic names ? They are free to name themselves anything that’s not the contentious item here it’s their affinity to alien cultures. My point is: This entire wannabe Arab trend is a very recent thing. Maybe in the last 20-30 years. Islam has been in India for the last 1000+ years. Arabs have not played a big role in its propagation or in governance of India. Hence 'whatever looking up to' that has been happening in India among Muslims, is always with respect to Persian culture. And sometimes to central Asian culture. Not saying that it is a good thing, but that's how it has been. The wannabe Arab crowd has mainly been the Gulf returnees. For most of history Arabs have been backward vis a vis India materially and have been a relatively primitive society. If anything, the old time Indian Muslims saw themselves as *superior* to the Arabs. People of my grandfathers generation definitely did so. Almost all the Sufi saints who preached in India have their roots in Central Asia. Almost all of the Islamic rulers of India were of central Asian/ Persian extraction. Hence there has been affinity towards Persian culture, which also has been fairly syncretic. 6 hours ago, Vilander said: They are basically Arabic names. And Indians who are Muslim take them as they think arabs are superior to them. They suffer from inferiority complex perhaps. I don't understand your line of reasoning re: inferiority complex. One doesn't name children based on a language, but based on some ideal(s). Islamic taxonomy is based on attributes of the Holy prophet or Allah or the names of various prophets. Many of those names don't exist in Indian languages! Christians in India have Biblical names. Parsis in India have names from the ancient Iranian language. And that has been the way it is for more than a millennium. Would you say that they too have some sort of inferiority complex? Given that many of the converts were from those sections of the society which were oppressed or at least disadvantaged, it is only natural that they give up their old caste surnames and accept another social identity which gives them a better chance at opportunities. There are Muslim communities which have stuck onto local surnames too. You'd find a lot of these in coastal Maharashtra, Gujarat, Kashmir and even Rajasthan. This is especially true when surnames belonged to an 'upper caste' or a reputable 'profession'. Edited July 22, 2020 by Mariyam Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Its not a pakistani specific thing, its a muslim thing. I had a muslim from bangalore as a roommate in US. He was always about the Iraq war. In that time, a young US soldier who lived next door and sometimes used to hang with us was about to be positioned in Iraq. We all wished him to be safe and well. As the door was shut, this muslim guy cursed him saying "marega saala". This is an educated msulim. My muslim friend from high school is always about rohingyas, kashmiris and gujarat riots. Usually a tamil rarely talks about other states. Anything north of south India is naarthie country So I asked him why do you bother with these issues tongue firmly in cheek. He just changed the topic. Never discussed the actual point. he is otherwise a nice guy but its a mental disease these people are carrying. may god allah help them What is wrong if your friend wants to discuss Gujarat riots or Kashmir or Mumbai riots? Aside from the fact that these are non fun topics,especially among friends, these are recent, relevant and emotive topics. You get a glimpse of what he is trying to say. You get a chance to educate him. He gets a rough idea of what your thoughts are. He gets a chance to educate you. How can that be a bad thing? EnterTheVoid and sandeep 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Truly admire your patience @Mariyam, dealing with these Twitter poppats and Coffee drinking Whatsapp uncles. Imagine how much of a cry baby you have to be to get offended by what you read on the Internet. That posse is beyond help. Stan AF, Mariyam and Alam_dar 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mariyam said: What is wrong if your friend wants to discuss Gujarat riots or Kashmir or Mumbai riots? Aside from the fact that these are non fun topics,especially among friends, these are recent, relevant and emotive topics. You get a glimpse of what he is trying to say. You get a chance to educate him. He gets a rough idea of what your thoughts are. He gets a chance to educate you. How can that be a bad thing? My chance of educating him is almost nil. He gets his "education" from his mosque people and never listens to someone who is not muslim on this issue. They have corrupted his mind. Far from what you think of me, I know him for about 20 years. Our school boy friends circle pretty much know each other by heart. So you ask me what is wrong with discussion on this sensitive topic. What is wrong is he mentions this topic always on whatsapp and his supporting meme forwards and if you provide a counter argument, you are accused as BJP or RSS supporter His philosophy is either you are with me or against me. There's no middle ground. What's also wrong is he doesn't talk about any bad stuff that happens to non-muslim people. If he talks like a panchayat leader (which he does ), he should point out about all problems regradless of religion. Tu comprends? Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Alam_dar said: Exactly. Both Turkish and Persian empires were rivals to each other too. Nevertheless, Persian culture seems to be very old and civilised. While Turkish culture seems to be wild as compared to the Persian one. But Aurangzeb is a Persian name. Aurangzeb (Persian: "Ornament of the Throne") and Alamgir (Persian: "Conqueror of the World") Turks were basically nomads . Can’t be civil Persians were a settled civilization with lots of fertile land much like India ( including current day padosis ) . Check about how gengis Khan & parivar destroyed Samarkand .. current day turkey is more like turkified Greek coffee_rules and Alam_dar 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 32 minutes ago, Mariyam said: What is wrong if your friend wants to discuss Gujarat riots or Kashmir or Mumbai riots? Aside from the fact that these are non fun topics,especially among friends, these are recent, relevant and emotive topics. You get a glimpse of what he is trying to say. You get a chance to educate him. He gets a rough idea of what your thoughts are. He gets a chance to educate you. How can that be a bad thing? I have lived with two Muslim oin a shared accommodation. One came from Delhi, afluent background. Other from some part of India I never bothered to ask. Now this other Muslim, while we lived together, throughout his stay, he kept trying his best to cajole my Muslim friend to go to mosque, read quaran, but it was clear to both of us, despite being educated and everything, this lad was fundamentalist and he kept on trying his best to make my friend follow his Islam and my friend kept on arguing to be humane first, Every discussion was effed by his belief system. Finally, he/we got him off the house. So no. Its not easy to discuss anything sanely and objectively with real followers. Spoiler: This Muslims frnd of mines mother was a Hindu. Real McCoy and Mariyam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Vilander said: I dislike supporting a bigot like the poster you responded to and arguing with someone like you. But Mariyam what is your point ? Wannabe Persian is ok ? That Indian Muslims are justified in naming themselves after central Asian or Persian names vs Arabic names ? They are free to name themselves anything that’s not the contentious item here it’s their affinity to alien cultures. I don't like to be spoken about behind my back. Whatever beef you have with me, man it up and say it to my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, mishra said: I have lived with two Muslim oin a shared accommodation. One came from Delhi, afluent background. Other from some part of India I never bothered to ask. Now this other Muslim, while we lived together, throughout his stay, he kept trying his best to cajole my Muslim friend to go to mosque, read quaran, but it was clear to both of us, despite being educated and everything, this lad was fundamentalist and he kept on trying his best to make my friend follow his Islam and my friend kept on arguing to be humane first, Every discussion was effed by his belief system. Finally, he/we got him off the house. So no. Its not easy to discuss anything sanely and objectively with real followers. Spoiler: This Muslims frnd of mines mother was a Hindu. My childhood friend is like your friend even though he is not from a wealthy family. He used to be normal. It seems the mosque he goes to has some leader who has the same mentality as your other roommate. My roommate in US was from an affluent and well educated background. He speaks American English from the get go and on the outside seem well adjusted to american culture. When you get to know him a bit better, you know he is not. He is more fundy than my childhood friend in Chennai even though he doesn't think of himself as being fundamental. Wealth and Education or should I say literacy is not a factor in their attitude IMHO mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, EnterTheVoid said: Truly admire your patience @Mariyam, dealing with these Twitter poppats and Coffee drinking Whatsapp uncles. Imagine how much of a cry baby you have to be to get offended by what you read on the Internet. That posse is beyond help. You've made it pretty clear who the offended cry baby actually is with all that name calling. Please stick to posting aviation and mountaineering (?) pics. Your trolling is pretty lame. No offense. Real McCoy, sergio04, raki05 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Mariyam said: My point is: This entire wannabe Arab trend is a very recent thing. Maybe in the last 20-30 years. Islam has been in India for the last 1000+ years. Arabs have not played a big role in its propagation or in governance of India. Hence 'whatever looking up to' that has been happening in India among Muslims, is always with respect to Persian culture. And sometimes to central Asian culture. Not saying that it is a good thing, but that's how it has been. The wannabe Arab crowd has mainly been the Gulf returnees. For most of history Arabs have been backward vis a vis India materially and have been a relatively primitive society. If anything, the old time Indian Muslims saw themselves as *superior* to the Arabs. People of my grandfathers generation definitely did so. Also, Urdu usage words is moving away from Persian roots to Arabic roots. Like Shariat is Sharia now, We used to get holidays for Ramzan and Bakrid. Now, Indians are being asked to call it Ramadan, Eid Al-Adha. Eid Al-Fitr. It is culturally moving away from Persia to Arabic. I agree this is new in the last 30 years as wahabi Islam is spreading all over the world. Earlier, I used to see colored burqas, nowadays it is always black, and also hijab is becoming more like a monkey-cap, showing only the eyes, sometimes, even that is covered with a net. Why is that? Istanbul in the 70s: Tehran before the revolution: Kabul in the 70s: Quote Almost all the Sufi saints who preached in India have their roots in Central Asia. Almost all of the Islamic rulers of India were of central Asian/ Persian extraction. Hence there has been affinity towards Persian culture, which also has been fairly syncretic. I don't understand your line of reasoning re: inferiority complex. One doesn't name children based on a language, but based on some ideal(s). Islamic taxonomy is based on attributes of the Holy prophet or Allah or the names of various prophets. Many of those names don't exist in Indian languages! Christians in India have Biblical names. Parsis in India have names from the ancient Iranian language. And that has been the way it is for more than a millennium. Would you say that they too have some sort of inferiority complex? Not true, Neo-converts keep the same name. Like Andhra CMs, I have met a crypto Anand Srinivasan, can't say he is a christian. But there is no such culture, or it is very rare to see an Indian Mohan being a Muslim. As soon as the dalits convert they will be Abduls/Ahmeds. Quote Given that many of the converts were from those sections of the society which were oppressed or at least disadvantaged, it is only natural that they give up their old caste surnames and accept another social identity which gives them a better chance at opportunities. There are Muslim communities which have stuck onto local surnames too. You'd find a lot of these in coastal Maharashtra, Gujarat, Kashmir and even Rajasthan. This is especially true when surnames belonged to an 'upper caste' or a reputable 'profession'. Yes Ahmed/Munaf Patels etc. Is Abhas Tyrewalla a Parsi? Alam_dar and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 hours ago, mishra said: No, when non Muslims are in majority, they criticize Muslim minority. If Muslims are in majority, they covert non Muslim minority Convertion happens irrespective of majority or minority. Kafirs are seen as untouchables who ought to be just converted mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 "It's because we the believers are the chosen people who will go to heaven & all you non-believers & idol worshippers will burn in hell for eternity" Is that the response one expects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 10 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Also, Urdu usage words is moving away from Persian roots to Arabic roots. Like Shariat is Sharia now, We used to get holidays for Ramzan and Bakrid. Now, Indians are being asked to call it Ramadan, Eid Al-Adha. Eid Al-Fitr. It is culturally moving away from Persia to Arabic. I agree this is new in the last 30 years as wahabi Islam is spreading all over the world. 100٪ True. Sufi Islam is dying, and Wahabi Islam is spreading at rapid pace. I have seen many debates between Sufi/moderate Muslims and Salafis/Wahabis, and Sufis were defeated in all those debates. Why? While Quran and Sunnah are always on the side of the Salafi/Wahabi Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 12 hours ago, EnterTheVoid said: Truly admire your patience @Mariyam, dealing with these Twitter poppats and Coffee drinking Whatsapp uncles. Imagine how much of a cry baby you have to be to get offended by what you read on the Internet. That posse is beyond help. Yes, @Mariyam is a brave lady, but still very polite and very logical, and an inspiration to me. I salute you sis. Nevertheless, I would also give full credit to the Right Wing brothers here. They do go out of their way and show respect to Mariyam, which I didn't expect initially from them. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Alam_dar said: People know their names, but they never visit them, as these sites have no religious value for the Pakistanis. While the religious Muslims actually forbid to visit such sites, while it could bring the foreign influence upon the Muslims. Last week, a grave was found which had large Buddha statue in it. But the people broke that statue at the spot after discovering it. Maybe they want to reuse the ground sandstone to rebuild and reuse. Some Marxist historians like Ananya Bajaj who is a disciple of Sheldon Pollock/Wendy Donniger and JNU activists say that Medieval Islamists didn’t destroy temples and build Mosques, but sugarcoat it as a case of Architecture Reuse, paying homage to Vedic Architecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan AF Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 22 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Anything north of south India is naarthie country True Real McCoy and mishra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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