Gavaskar in a league of his own!

[putrevus 6,637]

9 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

If anything even the average of 36 flatters him. His only innings of note against the Quartet was the 147* in this rain affected bore draw where 2 of the first 4 days were washed out and India batted first on the 5th day . Gavaskar, being the man for this sort of occasion, cashed in and got a nice little showpiece hundred. In the rest of his innings against the WIPQ, his scores were:

 

20

0

1

32

2

19

 

LINK

 

Meanwhile, a few generations of Indian kids grew up on the tall tales of Gavaskar dominating the ATG WI attack . Whereas in reality, he was mostly a non-entity against them struggling to take the shine off the new ball more often than not. Amarnath towered over him against the same attack by scoring 1 100 and 3 50+ scores in 7 innings .

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with Jimmy was he never could repeat his heroics again in his career.Gavaskar was defintely miles ahead as a batsman over Jimmy.

[Straight Drive 4,722]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

The problem with Jimmy was he never could repeat his heroics again in his career.Gavaskar was defintely miles ahead as a batsman over Jimmy.

As a batsman Sunny would get a place even in World ATG 11 as opener. 

 

Amarnath would not even make the Indian 11.

 

 

[Sooda 592]

If you look hard enough there are chinks in every batsmans record

 

If @zen was applying the same forensicness to Gavaskar as he was to SRT he would be pointing to the fact that SMG averages 15 when put to bat first away from home.

 

Indian top-order batsmen on being asked to bat first on foreign soil

 

 

Top order batsman	Mat	NO	Runs	Ave	100	50
SV Manjrekar	6	0	343	57.16	1	2
SR Tendulkar	18	2	812	50.75	4	3
GR Viswanath	5	0	219	43.80	1	1
M Azharuddin	7	0	295	42.14	0	4
M Amarnath	8	0	318	39.75	0	3
R Dravid	16	0	624	39.00	2	3
VVS Laxman	14	1	468	36.00	1	2
SC Ganguly	9	0	240	26.66	0	1
DB Vengsarkar	12	0	316	26.33	0	2
Yashpal Sharma	5	1	105	26.25	0	1
V Sehwag	9	0	233	25.88	1	1
RJ Shastri	10	0	234	23.40	1	0
AD Gaekwad	5	1	88	22.00	0	1
G Gambhir	6	0	120	20.00	0	0
SM Gavaskar	9	0	142	15.77	0	1
SS Das	5	0	62	12.40	0	0

 

 

And, his record vs WI would be looked at far more closely...

 

http://historyofcricket.blogspot.com/2007/11/myth-of-sunil-gavaskar-and-west-indies.html

Gavaskar made his debut for India against the West Indies on the 6th of March, 1971 at Port of Spain. He played four tests, and finished the series with an impressive total of 774 runs at the astronomical average of 154.80 with four centuries.  The Windies bowling attack was dominated by spin, with Lance Gibbs well on his way to passing Fred Trueman as the leading test wicket-taker. The fast bowlers that Gavaskar faced during this series were Keith Boyce, Grayson Shillingford, Vanburn Holder and Uton Dowe

 

Gavaskar only played two tests of the 1974/75 home series against the West Indies. He struggled, scoring 108 runs at an average of just 27. The quick bowlers he faced in this series included a young Andy Roberts, and the medium paced Holder, Boyce and left armer Bernard Julien.

 

Gavaskar’s next series against the West Indies was again away from home in 1975/76. Gavaskar again batted beautifully, scoring 390 runs at 55.71, with another two centuries.  The first two Tests saw Gavaskar opening the batting against genuine quicks Michael Holding and Andy Roberts. In support was swing bowler Julien, and spinners Holford and Jumadeen. After disappointing initially with 37 and 1 in the First Test, Gavaskar did score a wonderful 156 in the second. The Third and Fourth Tests saw no Andy Roberts, with Michael Holding in his second series as a Windies player supported by Wayne Daniel, Holder, Julien, Jumadeen, Albert Padmore and Imtiaz Ali. There was not yet any sign of the four pronged pace attack that would soon dominate the cricket world.

The West Indies then toured India in 1978/79. This tour was in the middle of the Packer years, and the West Indies bowling attack was decimated. Rather than facing Holding, Roberts, Garner and Croft, Gavaskar opened the batting in the First Test against the legendary Norbert Phillip, his old nemesis Vanburn Holder, and Sylvester Clarke. The Windies attack again had reverted to spin, with Derek Parry and Jumadeen both playing. Gavaskar again gorged himself, scoring 732 runs at 91.50, with another 4 centuries. A very young Malcolm Marshall made his debut during this very high scoring six test series that India won 1-0, with five draws.

Gavaskar’s second last series against the Windies was away in 1982/83. He scored 240 runs at an average of 30, with one century. Against the full might of the Windies four quicks (Holding, Roberts, Garner and Marshall), he scored 20 and 0 in the First Test, 1 and 32 in the Second, a very good 147 not out in the Third (which was badly affected by weather and India didn’t even finish their first innings), 2 and 19 in the Fourth, and 18 and 1 in the Fifth. This was the first time Gavaskar had played against all of the Windies quicks, and he clearly struggled.

In 1983/84, Gavaskar played the Windies for the last time. This series was at home, and the bowling attack was weakened by the absence of Garner. In the first test, the Windies fielding four quicks, but whilst Holding and Marshall were genuinely fast, neither Eldine Baptiste or Winston Davis really threatened. Gavaskar started poorly with 0 and 7 in the First Test, before finding some form with 121 and 15 in the Second, and 90 and 1 in the Third. 12, 3, 0 and 20 were his scores in the next two tests, before Gavaskar played one of his great knocks. In the final test, he dropped himself down the order to no. 4, with Gaekwad and Sidhu opening. The fact that Malcolm Marshall took two wickets without a run being scored meant that Gavaskar may as well have opened anyway. Gavaskar proceeded to totally dominate the Windies attack and scored a wonderful 236 not out. 

 

[zen 13,989]

44 minutes ago, Sooda said:

If you look hard enough there are chinks in every batsmans record

 

If @zen was applying the same forensicness to Gavaskar as he was to SRT he would be pointing to the fact that SMG averages 15 when put to bat first away from home.

 

Indian top-order batsmen on being asked to bat first on foreign soil

 

 

Top order batsman	Mat	NO	Runs	Ave	100	50
SV Manjrekar	6	0	343	57.16	1	2
SR Tendulkar	18	2	812	50.75	4	3
GR Viswanath	5	0	219	43.80	1	1
M Azharuddin	7	0	295	42.14	0	4
M Amarnath	8	0	318	39.75	0	3
R Dravid	16	0	624	39.00	2	3
VVS Laxman	14	1	468	36.00	1	2
SC Ganguly	9	0	240	26.66	0	1
DB Vengsarkar	12	0	316	26.33	0	2
Yashpal Sharma	5	1	105	26.25	0	1
V Sehwag	9	0	233	25.88	1	1
RJ Shastri	10	0	234	23.40	1	0
AD Gaekwad	5	1	88	22.00	0	1
G Gambhir	6	0	120	20.00	0	0
SM Gavaskar	9	0	142	15.77	0	1
SS Das	5	0	62	12.40	0	0

 

 

 

Not an important criteria for me but below is the correct data for what you are looking for: 

Primary team India  Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  Home or away away (home of opposition)  Toss result lost the toss  Batting or fielding first batting first  Batting position between 1 and 3  Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 300  and matches played greater than or equal to 5  Ordered by batting average (descending)   Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0   M Amarnath 1976-1983 5 10 0 684 117 68.40 2 5 0   G Gambhir 2009-2014 5 10 0 375 167 37.50 1 1 1   R Dravid 1999-2012 13 24 0 811 107 33.79 1 5 0   SM Gavaskar 1976-1983 9 18 1 532 127* 31.29 1 3 1   CA Pujara 2014-2020 9 18 1 495 145* 29.11 1 2 1

 

Also note that by top order, it is implied upper order, which is batting in #1-3 positions (where I would not even mind appreciating their avg by 10% if not more), #4-7 is middle order 

 

 

 

PS in the MO 

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Toss result lost the toss

Batting or fielding first batting first

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 300  and matches played greater than or equal to 5

Ordered by batting average (descending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
AM Rahane	2014-2020	9	18	2	728	103	45.50	2	4	1
VVS Laxman	2002-2012	11	21	1	793	130	39.65	1	6	3
GR Viswanath	1976-1983	5	9	0	341	114	37.88	1	2	1
N Kapil Dev	1978-1992	13	21	2	718	129	37.78	2	2	1
SR Tendulkar	1989-2012	16	31	2	1061	155	36.58	4	5	4
MS Dhoni	2009-2014	8	15	2	471	82	36.23	0	5	1
M Azharuddin	1989-1999	7	14	0	469	109	33.50	1	4	1
SC Ganguly	1999-2002	8	14	2	401	75*	33.41	0	3	0
V Kohli	2011-2020	11	22	0	650	103	29.54	1	4	3
DB Vengsarkar	1976-1991	9	17	0	400	94	23.52	0	2	2

Edited January 5, 2021 by zen

[putrevus 6,637]

5 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

As a batsman Sunny would get a place even in World ATG 11 as opener. 

 

Amarnath would not even make the Indian 11.

 

 

I agree on both points. But for that one year in 1982-83 Jimmy was great.His twin 50s after getting hit on head on fast Bridgetown Barbados pitch should among very best innings by any player against 4 ATG fast bowlers.

[kirkutfan 409]

Why do we like to bash our own? Even Bradman- I could say ki voh India nahin aaya- what a loser. Or Viv Richards was lucky because he never faced any of the West Indian bowlers. He had a lot of fun playing against Abid Ali or Madan Lal. Just imagine what Gavaskar’s averages might have been if he were to face Madan Lal/ Abid Ali. Even those Packer less teams had better pace attacks than what we had back then. In fact, it is neat that he has a successful record against pace when he had no exposure to anything remotely similar in the domestic circuit. And there weren’t really any predecessors to guide him back them. When he started playing, the Indian record for most runs scored in tests was held by Polly Umrigar who had 3600 runs at an average of 42. Gavaskar, at least ensured that by the time he was done, he set records that matched or exceeded what was being done elsewhere. 10000 plus runs at a 50 plus average. He was definitely a game changer for Indian cricket. The other thing we like to do is to bash a guy by comparing the guy to some guy we like. Back then, there was the Gavaskar or Viswanath comparison- when in fact they were very different players. Viswanath was a beautiful stroke maker who could produce nice innings on difficult pitches. Gavaskar, overall, was the guy who laid the foundation . So he wasn’t as pretty as Vishy- but definitely more consistent. They were both nice to watch- but really no comparison. And of course comparing between eras by matching him up against SRT or Sehwag doesn’t really work. Conditions, circumstances are different enough that it would be difficult to account for those and compare. 

[zen 13,989]

In ODIs, Gavaskar led India to win in the World Series Championship ... Here is a nice clip from that competition - Link