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Lil Early to Say but this England side are showing Flashes of the Dominant Australian side


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2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Next WC is in India. So with home advantage we have good chance to win it. Dhoni also made good use of familiar home co ditions to win WC. So the hopes are there given the history. 1983 was different though as Kapil won it in very adverse conditions.

till virat is captain we can loose to even opposition who doesnt want to win matches 

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Those calling Eng mental midgets, which other side since 1999 Aus has won as many must win matches as 2019 Eng on the brink of elimination? And based on how they played the SF/F unfair to call them FTB team. 

they barely qualified for the top 4 in world cup(losing to pak and sl in round robin)..had india won they would have been knocked out. inspite of having a beastly batting lineup a not so good aussie team(who could challenge them) and playing in their home condition. i think it qualifies as being mental midgets.

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2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yea, how can someone call this side mental midget when they have won a WC and they also won 2010 t20 Wc which the mentally strong aussies still dont have 

Peak Aussies were already on the wane by the time T20 World Cup came around.

Being 3 time World Champs in a row and going 2 World Cups without losing a game will probably never be repeated.

But if you want to go as far back as 2010, then England even choked from a winning position in the 2013 Champions Trophy Final against us, and also gave away 4 sixes to Braithwaite in the final over of the 2016 T20 World Cup Final. They're mental midgets.

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5 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

 

But if you want to go as far back as 2010, then England even choked from a winning position in the 2013 Champions Trophy Final against us,

that was a **** england side that in 2 yrs faced embarrassment in WC

thats not choke, they didnt deserve to win 

5 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

and also gave away 4 sixes to Braithwaite in the final over of the 2016 T20 World Cup Final. They're mental midgets.

stokes had a bad day , same guy who won them WC

like yuvi had a bad day in 2014 Wc ....wud u call him midget 

 

Ppl can have bad days , if any mental midgets are SA or someone like Kohli 

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27 minutes ago, aditya19 said:

they barely qualified for the top 4 in world cup(losing to pak and sl in round robin)..had india won they would have been knocked out. inspite of having a beastly batting lineup a not so good aussie team(who could challenge them) and playing in their home condition. i think it qualifies as being mental midgets.

when u a win a Wc u arent choked

Pak also won wc in 1992 struggling in round robins

CSK n MI have this legacy of round robin issues and then they win cups 

 

round robin dont matter if u win the cup.

England i think is the only side to have won 50 over n 20 over WC in last decade 

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

till virat is captain we can loose to even opposition who doesnt want to win matches 

Virat botched an opportunity of life time which came his way 10th July 2019,he will never ever get such a  chance again,India were the only team which could threaten Eng

Edited by Suhaan
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2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Virat botched an opportunity of life time which came his way 10th July 2019,he will never ever get such a  chance again,India were the only team which could threaten Eng

still think 2017 was a bigger fckup....Nz atleast and pitches with tricky total is their strength 

But pak making 300+ was unacceptable 

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15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

that was a **** england side that in 2 yrs faced embarrassment in WC

You're the one who's bringing up a T20 World Cup win by a completely different England side to try to prove your point and now you have a problem when it doesn't fit your narrative?
 

16 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

thats not choke, they didnt deserve to win 

It was a choke in every sense of the word. They had 6 wickets left with 20 to get from 2.4 overs and would've won it easily had they not choked in epic fashion.

Also your opinion of whether they "deserved" to win or not is moot. A lot of people would say England didn't deserve to win the 2019 World Cup Final because Stokes was awarded an extra run wrongly by the umpire.

18 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

like yuvi had a bad day in 2014 Wc ....wud u call him midget 

Except Stokes wasn't past his prime in 2016 like Yuvi was in 2014.

Again, it was a choke.

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4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

You're the one who's bringing up a T20 World Cup win by a completely different England side to try to prove your point and now you have a problem when it doesn't fit your narrative?
 

and ur bringing 2015 side which again was a very diff side 

4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

It was a choke in every sense of the word. They had 6 wickets left with 20 to get from 2.4 overs and would've won it easily had they not choked in epic fashion.

Pitch was turning a lot it was very diff against jaddu n ash , india was unbeaten in that tournament 

 

4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Also your opinion of whether they "deserved" to win or not is moot. A lot of people would say England didn't deserve to win the 2019 World Cup Final because Stokes was awarded an extra run wrongly by the umpire.

They came in as fav...and on a day anything can happen , it was a close game 

this isnt choking

4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Except Stokes wasn't past his prime in 2016 like Yuvi was in 2014.

Again, it was a choke.

Even stokes didnt hit his peak, yuvi won u semi against australia with a great knock  .....so it wasnt that he cudnt bat 

 

again not choking, someone had a bad day or over doesnt mean whole team choked 

Choking is what SA does tournament after tournament despite coming as a strong side 

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

and ur bringing 2015 side which again was a very diff side 

Do you understand why I did that? It's because you brought up England's 2010 T20 World Cup win first to prove that England aren't mental midgets. I brought up two instances after that to prove otherwise. If you don't want to compare different teams then don't bring up T20 World Cup win from 10 years ago. 

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Pitch was turning a lot it was very diff against jaddu n ash , india was unbeaten in that tournament 

The downslide started with Ishant Sharma who picked two wickets. India being unbeaten doesn't matter because a team that weren't mental midgets wouldn't lose from that position.

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

They came in as fav...

Again doesn't matter. England being favourites on paper didn't help them when they lost to Pakistan and Sri Lanka. India were favourites in multiple tournaments and came up short. 

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yuvi won u semi against australia with a great knock  .....so it wasnt that he cudnt bat 

Anyone who was following cricket at that time knew that Yuvraj was past it by that time. Just go back and find old threads from that time. Yuvraj was one of Kohli's mistakes just like Rayudu was. 

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

again not choking, someone had a bad day or over doesnt mean whole team choked 

Choking is what SA does tournament after tournament despite coming as a strong side 

Choking is simply withering under pressure from a position of strength. It doesn't matter if whole team choked or not, otherwise South Africa 1999, 2015 would not be called "chokes".

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WI and Aus looked unbeatable many times.  This Eng team is relatively beatable, which makes its games more exciting. 
 

To a certain degree, reminds me of the SA teams , which had maverick cricketers such as Gibbs, Cronje, Rhodes (fielding & running b/w the wkts), and Klusener, along with the bowling attack. ABDV is probably next to Viv Richards as the most exciting batsman in LOIs.  Unlike SA, this Eng team has won a big tournament too. 

Probably, along with the Ind LOI team of mid 80s, SA of 90s (and maybe SL of a brief period in late 90s), this Eng team is probably the most exciting one to watch!

 

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1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Do you understand why I did that? It's because you brought up England's 2010 T20 World Cup win first to prove that England aren't mental midgets. I brought up two instances after that to prove otherwise. If you don't want to compare different teams then don't bring up T20 World Cup win from 10 years ago. 

The downslide started with Ishant Sharma who picked two wickets. India being unbeaten doesn't matter because a team that weren't mental midgets wouldn't lose from that position.

Again doesn't matter. England being favourites on paper didn't help them when they lost to Pakistan and Sri Lanka. India were favourites in multiple tournaments and came up short. 

Round robins dont matter once ur semis , its what happens on that day. 

Eng and india both were fav....england was more coz their middle was better and they were playing in home condition.

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Anyone who was following cricket at that time knew that Yuvraj was past it by that time. Just go back and find old threads from that time. Yuvraj was one of Kohli's mistakes just like Rayudu was. 

Choking is simply withering under pressure from a position of strength. It doesn't matter if whole team choked or not, otherwise South Africa 1999, 2015 would not be called "chokes".

So anyone cant have a bad day he can just choke.....

No player will score in all games, some days are good some days are bad but choking can be said when it keeps happening again n again. You can label someone chokers when they keep doing it again n again

 

Even aus lost 2011 quater final doesnt mean they became chokers and that side was india in india in 2007 n 2009. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Ordinary bowling attack.

Nowhere near Aussies and will never be.

But batting is deadly.Their reserves will easily get into indias  first team

 

Hales ,Billings ,banton will easily get into every other team in the world.

Bangladesh , sri lanka, wi are what u call ordinary attack

An attack containing archer wood woakes rashid isnt ordinary....its pretty good. 

 

Hales , billing n banton wont get into indian team...gill who is better then all isnt able to

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43 minutes ago, zen said:

WI and Aus looked unbeatable many times.  This Eng team is relatively beatable, which makes its games more exciting. 
 

Key word is flashes, need to read point what i said are comparable 

I knw they arent invincable  thats why i didnt mention that

43 minutes ago, zen said:

To a certain degree, reminds me of the SA teams , which had maverick cricketers such as Gibbs, Cronje, Rhodes (fielding & running b/w the wkts), and Klusener, along with the bowling attack. ABDV is probably next to Viv Richards as the most exciting batsman in LOIs.  Unlike SA, this Eng team has won a big tournament too. 

Sa didnt have that an attacking styles as england has

Also morgon, stokes , butled are far better runaway match winner then cronke or rhoades .

43 minutes ago, zen said:


Probably, along with the Ind LOI team of mid 80s, SA of 90s (and maybe SL of a brief period in late 90s), this Eng team is probably the most exciting one to watch!

 

Indian team plays safe cricket., England are playing attacking cricket like australia.

 

In before u say oh they cant do in every condition n all.....yea i knw which is why i didnt mention

 

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10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Round robins dont matter once ur semis , its what happens on that day. 

Of course it matters. Why else do you think Australia are highly regarded? They decimated India and Sri Lanka in consecutive World Cup finals. Nobody ever since has come close to their level of dominance. Certainly not mental midgets England.

25 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

So anyone cant have a bad day he can just choke.....

It's one thing to have a bad day, it's another to self-destruct in pressure cooker situations.

England did that. Their batting doesn't have the mental fortitude and versatility that Australia did and their bowling isn't even in the same league.

31 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Even aus lost 2011 quater final doesnt mean they became chokers and that side was india in india in 2007 n 2009. 

2011 Australia wasn't peak Australia. Gilchrist, Hayden, Symonds, McGrath, Warne were all gone. Anyway that match was pretty straightforward and wasn't a "choke" by Australia.

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32 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Key word is flashes, need to read point what i said are comparable 

I knw they arent invincable  thats why i didnt mention that

Sa didnt have that an attacking styles as england has

Also morgon, stokes , butled are far better runaway match winner then cronke or rhoades .

Indian team plays safe cricket., England are playing attacking cricket like australia.

 

In before u say oh they cant do in every condition n all.....yea i knw which is why i didnt mention

 

My post is more related to creating excitement esp. for neutrals in terms of watchability and vulnerability (as they can be beaten too)

  • Early to mid 80s Ind: Giant slayers who had a few ARs in the 11
  • 90s SA: Maverick cricketers like Klusener and Rhodes (best fielder and runner b/w wkts), along with the pace bowling attack 
  • Mid to late 90s SL: Power play batting 
  • Late 00s to current Eng: Attacking batting right up to the tail in many of the games. The tempo is usually maintained. Reputation as chasers   

 

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It is not England’s dominance or anything that needs to be an inspiration but the way they identified mercurial youngsters and threw them in international cricket.

 

Today they are spoilt for choices in all formats. They don’t have a spinner though but I have full faith in their system to produce a few options in the next few years.
 

Here we are struggling to find a back up for most slots given the talent and resources available.

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