Traditional oils vs synthetic oils in cooking

[coffee_rules]

33 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Please read the linked article.  There is evidence there.  Yes, methi is venthayam.

The article is mocking Indians and their reliance of desi Ayurvedic knowledge of jhadi-booti in these Covid times 

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

The article is mocking Indians and their reliance of desi Ayurvedic knowledge of jhadi-booti in these Covid times 

Not mocking Indians, specifically.  It is bringing to light the serious detrimental nature of internet home-remedy medicine that is based on pushing unproven supplements and herbal preparations.  Being that it is an Indian magazine, toxicities from Ayurvedic preaparations was the context.  But this happens everywhere (apple cider vinegar, Gingko extract etc in the US).

 

One of my biggest issues is the denial by people who practice native medicines (be it Indian, Chinese, Native American ...) that these herbs and supplements are chemicals, too.  Plants are chemical factories.  In low/moderate doses, the chemicals may have some benefit.  In high doses, the same chemicals (yes, turmeric has toxic chemicals, as does methi) can be toxic.  In fact, even in low/moderate doses, they could have side-effects in some people.  Acknowledging this fact seems very challenging for the practitioners. 

 

On the other hand, FDA approved drugs have a list of side-effects that is longer than the treatment in the advertisements.  That is because they have been tested for efficacy AND toxicity and the data are available, so that if someone takes it and experiences a side-effect, it is actionable.  It causes a misconception that these drugs have all these side-effects, but the natural ones don't, while truly we just don't know because they are not put to rigorous trials.  

 

If I had a penny for every time I have heard "Oh it's natural ... no side-effects," I would retire in the Caymans today.  

 

BTW, @coffee_rules, did you see my serious response to the olive vs canola oil question.  Thoughts?  

Edited September 17, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[beetle]

31 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

If I had a penny for every time I have heard "Oh it's natural ... no side-effects," I would retire in the Caymans today.  

Oh....it is avurvedic....it has no side effects...

Oh ....it is homeopathic....it has no side effects.

 

Oh ...it is herbal....it has no side effects....

 

And what is herbal tea... I thought all teas are plant based...

 

 

[beetle]

Back to topic....

I use mustard oil for veggies.

Ghee for rest.

Olive oil for pasta and eggs etc.

Sometimes peanut oil for frying.

 

No sugar in tea , coffee or nimbu paani  or even cereals.

Only sugar is used for make sweet dishes.

I pick up honey from a honey farmer on way to Dehradun.

 

 

 

 

 

[beetle]

People say Jaggery is better than sugar...but if you see jaggery being made ...you won't ever feel like eating it.

 

They use so much chemical and the kind of filth that floats on top while it is being cooked.

I saw it being made once...on the outskirts of Meerut....

[BacktoCricaddict]

20 hours ago, Vilander said:

With unrefined sugar i wash it a bit or remove husk etc before use. But we have ditched sugar or sweeteners from coffee altogether. Rice and wheat.. God rice is the death of me. Qunioa in taste cant even hold a candle to lowest tasting low glycimic brown rice or wheat..no need to bring in jasmin rice or basmati etc. But somehow supposed to eat quinoa, how i dont know.

 

I found pandan leaves and now make tolerable quinoa to be rice replacement once in a blue moon.

How do you wash sugar without it dissolving?  And what do you mean "husk?"  Sugar is not a grain ... where does the husk come from?

[Real McCoy]

3 minutes ago, beetle said:

People say Jaggery is better than sugar...but if you see jaggery being made ...you won't ever feel like eating it.

 

They use so much chemical and the kind of filth that floats on top while it is being cooked.

I saw it being made once...on the outskirts of Meerut....

Thats why its better to buy these things without brand name and from some reputable local seller nearby. Small manufacturers are motivated by money and add some color similar to that of jaggery like say dirt lol. But big manufacturers add chemicals which are more dangerous. If you see a weird taste, buy from some other store. I'm not gonna argue that jaggery is uncontaminated but if you check refined sugar and how its made, you will start buying these old fashoined items

After this covid crisis, I'm buying from local grocery stores. Earlier I used to buy from supermarkets. During the covid times, they were locked and you could only buy online while these small stores were open because they had no online option. Also its always a good idea to support small business. Otherwise, you will have a situation like in the US where Walmart and some other megachains have a monopoly.

[beetle]

I grew up eating lots of potato chips , fryums ,sago chips etc fried in refined oil. Refined oil was supposed to be good.....atleast not bad. 

 

Also grew up drinking a lot of Rasna. We always had  lots of rasna stored in rum and whisky bottles at home 

 

My mom would also make drinks of various colours  made with sugar syrup,food colour and preservatives ....again stored in rum and whisky bottles.

 

When parents used to go for party....we used to take out dad's finest whisky glasses and had rasna party. 

 

No such stuff for my kid. Poor girl missing out on so much fun.

Only fresh juice and fruits for her .

 

I wonder if some day " some vague research " will peddle the idea that fresh fruits and juices are not so good and refined oil was actually good.....like ghee ,mustard oil and coconut oil have gone through the bad phase only be born again healthy.

 

There is too much money involved in the food industry ....too many half truths and convenient lies beilg peddled to get people to buy stuff.

 

Sometimes I feel we should just eat and drink everything in moderation and not go by the bs that is peddled every day.

 

What if what we are eating / feeding today as healthy turns out to be not so healthy tomorrow....

 

 

[Real McCoy]

18 minutes ago, beetle said:

Back to topic....

I use mustard oil for veggies.

Ghee for rest.

Olive oil for pasta and eggs etc.

Sometimes peanut oil for frying.

 

No sugar in tea , coffee or nimbu paani  or even cereals.

Only sugar is used for make sweet dishes.

I pick up honey from a honey farmer on way to Dehradun.

 

 

 

 

 

Olive oil is for temperate climates like USA, Italy. Its not good for tropical climates. May work in north. I know one thing for sure. Coconut oil is not advisable for use in USA because it becomes solid even in Chennai in the "winter" season. In US, it remains solid thorughout and you can imagine it wont be good for the body. So traditional for the local customs not for foreign customs

[beetle]

5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Thats why its better to buy these things without brand name and from some reputable local seller nearby

This was a non brand local sellers.

Don't believe local is always good.

Most of the local milk from small sellers is heavily adulterated. Sometimes it is not even milk....urea with detergent ....

 

Those days of small producers being honest are gone. 

 

[beetle]

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Olive oil is for temperate climates like USA, Italy. Its not good for tropical climates. May work in north. I know one thing for sure. Coconut oil is not advisable for use in USA because it becomes solid even in Chennai in the "winter" season. In US, it remains solid thorughout and you can imagine it wont be good for the body. So traditional for the local customs not for foreign customs

You are right. 

It is better to use stuff that grows locally and that is being used locally by people for a long time .

That is why coconut oil works in the south and mustard works in the north.....not just for cooking but also for massaging ....specially kids

[Real McCoy]

3 minutes ago, beetle said:

There is too much money involved in the food industry ....too many half truths and convenient lies beilg peddled to get people to buy stuff.

 

Sometimes I feel we should just eat and drink everything in moderation and not go by the bs that is peddled every day.

 

What if what we are eating / feeding today as healthy turns out to be not so healthy tomorrow....

Point understood. But I say use traditioanl food items but in moderation as you say. Not like that ghee video where that fitness guy was pouring ghee on rice and roti liberally. A small amout of ghee has so many nutrients but if you overload it only obesity will result.

[beetle]

1)Another trick is to use ' non pretty' fruits and veggies. These are more likely to be grown in small farms without too much access to fertilizers and pesticides. The oddly shaped  desi tomatoes and small differently sized potaoes,the not so perfectly round onions.

 

The fruits with slight bruises are more likely to have ripened on the tree than in storage with chemicals.

 

The not so white cauliflowers and the greens with mud are better because they have not been cleaned in some filthy water with detergent .

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by beetle

[BacktoCricaddict]

52 minutes ago, beetle said:

I grew up eating lots of potato chips , fryums ,sago chips etc fried in refined oil. Refined oil was supposed to be good.....atleast not bad. 

 

Also grew up drinking a lot of Rasna. We always had  lots of rasna stored in rum and whisky bottles at home 

 

My mom would also make drinks of various colours  made with sugar syrup,food colour and preservatives ....again stored in rum and whisky bottles.

 

When parents used to go for party....we used to take out dad's finest whisky glasses and had rasna party. 

 

No such stuff for my kid. Poor girl missing out on so much fun.

Only fresh juice and fruits for her .

 

I wonder if some day " some vague research " will peddle the idea that fresh fruits and juices are not so good and refined oil was actually good.....like ghee ,mustard oil and coconut oil have gone through the bad phase only be born again healthy.

 

There is too much money involved in the food industry ....too many half truths and convenient lies beilg peddled to get people to buy stuff.

 

Sometimes I feel we should just eat and drink everything in moderation and not go by the bs that is peddled every day.

 

What if what we are eating / feeding today as healthy turns out to be not so healthy tomorrow....

 

 

Here's the deal: 

 

Scientists say, in moderation, oils like sunflower, safflower, corn, olive and canola oil are not bad for you due their high unsaturated fat content.  Company markets it as "these oils are good for you."  People interpret that as - "we can eat as much of the $H1te as we want."  Of course, that is not a good thing, regardless of type of fat.  Limiting overall fat intake is still a good thing, even if it is "good fats."  

 

Same thing with ghee.  Just because ghee (and lard and other saturated fats in general) is now shown to be less harmful than originally thought, does not make ghee a health-food where you just go about deep-frying everything in it.  Limiting saturated fat is still a good thing.   

 

In the end, the answer is simple, but may not be easy to follow:

 

Overall portion control:

Generally, we all eat too much without even knowing it.  Cut your calorie intake by 25%.  Your body will protest, but will adjust.  Now, if you are an athlete or bodybuilder, drop this advice.  

 

Yes to High-fibre / Low Glycemic foods while still controlling calories:

• Whole-grain wheat.  Even sub this for rice - I use whole bulgur wheat instead of rice, works well enough except for Biryani.
• Whole millets like Jowar, Bajri, Ragi (even powdered millets like powdered ragi are not as good and can have high GI),
• Maximize legumes:  Moong is especially great, but others too.  Chana, Urad, Rajma ... high fibre, and high protein.  Eat some without the carb vehicle first.  That way, you will limit your carb intake. 
• Very little maida, very little white rice (even brown rice is not very fibre-rich) - these don't satisfy you and leave you craving for more.
• Fresh veggies - the main advantage is fibre, not any cancer-protecting compounds etc.
• High-fibre fruits - Apples are good, mangoes are good, bananas not so much.  This doesn't mean "mangoes are a health food." They are just better than eating sweets or bananas, still limit how much you eat.  
• Avoid simple sugars totally if possible.

High-protein:

• Legumes, curds, milk, eggs, chicken - all great sources.  Red meat occasionally. 
• From my standpoint, if there is anything close to a "superfood," it is legumes - high-fibre, high protein.  Everything else is noise.  

Avoid deep-fried foods:

Whether raw oil, cold-pressed oil, refined oil, ghee, or synthetic Valvoline engine oil, avoid.  No type of fat is a superfood.  The occasional bhajji won't hurt you, but be mindful of how many hidden calories are in it.  Even if it was fried in cold-pressed oil or ghee.

 

Move:

15 - 20 miles a week of brisk walking.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 hours ago, beetle said:

1)Another trick is to use ' non pretty' fruits and veggies. These are more likely to be grown in small farms without too much access to fertilizers and pesticides. The oddly shaped  desi tomatoes and small differently sized potaoes,the not so perfectly round onions.

 

The fruits with slight bruises are more likely to have ripened on the tree than in storage with chemicals.

 

The not so white cauliflowers and the greens with mud are better because they have not been cleaned in some filthy water with detergent .

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with food grown with synthetic fertilizer.  Soils have the same chemicals, but fertilizers give depleted soils more.  Ripening chemicals like ethylene are the same chemical that the fruit itself makes when it ripens on a plant.  No need to fear it.  

 

Added in edit:  After writing what I wrote above, I realized that my view was based on what I know about fruit ripening chemicals in the US, but not in India.  When I checked, I realized that they still use Calcium Carbide in India, can be contaminated with Arsenic.  So, I walk back my thoughts on fruit ripening with regard to how it is done in India.  

Edited September 17, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[BacktoCricaddict]

56 minutes ago, beetle said:

You are right. 

It is better to use stuff that grows locally and that is being used locally by people for a long time .

That is why coconut oil works in the south and mustard works in the north.....not just for cooking but also for massaging ....specially kids

Three points:

(1) Just because something has been used for a long time does not necessarily make it better for you.  Often anecdotal evidence stresses only the positives and not the negatives. 

 

(2) Just because something solidifies where you live does not make it bad for you.  Heck, ghee solidified in Bengaluru.  Coconut oil solidified in Bengaluru.  

 

(3) Just because something grows well somewhere does not make it better for the people who live there.  It just means that, historically, it was convenient for the people to get high yields of it and have enough.  In other words, local items have been used for a long time simply because they are more easily available.  So, if as a Southie, I used mustard oil to massage, it's not going to be any worse than using coconut oil.  Too much reliance on ancestral knowledge without critically thinking about it is not beneficial either.