Emmanuel Macrons plan to reorganise Islam

[someone]

On 10/26/2020 at 5:08 PM, mishra said:

See, I still think Sufi Islam is only path for Indian Muslims. It accepts and promotes to coexist with other religions. Instead of Namaaj , it relies on qawwali and Sufi songs. Its highly inspired by "Prem Margi", meaning path of Love and devotion to Allah as best way to acheive Allah. 

 

Current fundoos have banned Sufis Islam. Infact, declared the music itself as Haraam.

 

PS: Not sure if people know "Prem Margi". Its like the way Meera loved Krishna, to acheve Krishna, Same way Muslims can love Allah and that will take them to Allah. But offcorse, Fundoo Muslims are fighting this view

I always thought its the women as they led and bring the reforms. Yet here, we have seen the minuscule support for 3T, or how they were used as pawns in the CAA protest. So, there really needs to be actual women leadership and aspirations within.

[coffee_rules]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They will also say BJP is the reason for Hindu Radicalization. Hindusim is always built on acceptance but BJP has redefined it.While I agree it is world wide problem but we always had this problem.

 

Wrong message if that’s what you think Hinduism is. It cannot be for acceptance from one side all the time. It has gone past that stage long time ago. Where is BJP coming here? Even in India the retaliation of Hindu community started much before BJP came into prominence. You make it sound as though BJP workers are going around targeting Muslims on the street, but the reality is the other way around in places like WB, Kashmir and Kerala. In France’s case, also the same, the community has reached a tipping point with the teacher’s gruesome murder. 

[Gollum]

17 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They can also turn around and say they have never been treated as part of India and always have to look over their shoulders.

Muslims not integrating is not our fault. If Muslims aren't integrating in India, China, Russia, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Europe, Philippines, fault lies within their community. I refuse to accept that entire world is at fault and only Muslims are the holy ones. And that they are the only victims. 

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Wrong message if that’s what you think Hinduism is. It cannot be for acceptance from one side all the time. It has gone past that stage long time ago. Where is BJP coming here? Even in India the retaliation of Hindu community started much before BJP came into prominence. You make it sound as though BJP workers are going around targeting Muslims on the street, but the reality is the other way around in places like WB, Kashmir and Kerala. In France’s case, also the same, the community has reached a tipping point with the teacher’s gruesome murder. 

First things don't take my words out of context. That is general outlook from a muslim perpective in terms of BJP. Ram Janambhoomi started this view point in 1990s.There have been wars based on religion long before BJP came into existence.RSS was there since 1920s but BJP coming to power gave it more political significance.

 

Hinduism has always been built around acceptance otherwise we would not have so many religions coexist in India.Why it happened, we can always debate about it.But once it happened IMHO  we as majority have duty towards other minorities to make them feel part of our country. Ahimsa Paramo Dharma is the principle which has guided our nation for a long long time.

 

Radicalization of any religion is very dangerous.

[putrevus]

27 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Muslims not integrating is not our fault. If Muslims aren't integrating in India, China, Russia, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Europe, Philippines, fault lies within their community. I refuse to accept that entire world is at fault and only Muslims are the holy ones. And that they are the only victims. 

So what should they do? If they are being treated as second class citizens in their own country.

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So what should they do? If they are being treated as second class citizens in their own country.

Are they being treated as second class citizens in France, Germany, Sweden, UK? If not what is the source of friction? One side is clearly at greater fault.  

 

Anyway integration is what is expected. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Gollum

[someone]

43 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They will also say BJP is the reason for Hindu Radicalization. Hindusim is always built on acceptance but BJP has redefined it.While I agree it is world wide problem but we always had this problem.

Hinduva is a reaction, and a defensive reaction to the hostile actions by foreign religions over centuries. It's not a new thing, and it is a challenge today. Irrespective of the governments, it's the Muslim radicalization which is increasing at a alarming rate, and has to be resolved.

 

Next, all parties are fearful of Muslim rebellion, and it's the solution which differentiates them. Congress and allies want to keep them content with "veto power", exclusive rights, and basically first hand on our resources. That is a truce, not actual peace. Yet this "status quo" hasn't helped but further divided in the 70 years journey, and this is where BJP wants to change the "status quo" and build true unity and equality. Many talked about how Article 370, Ram Mandir would bring blood on the streets, yet nobody dared to ask who?

 

[putrevus]

Just now, Gollum said:

Are they being treated as second class citizens in France, Germany, Sweden, UK? If not what is the source of friction? One side is clearly at greater fault.  

Yes sometimes , just like how Trump is making all immigrants feel as second class citizens. If solution was that simple we would not have had so many wars. I am not defending their actions but we also have to think why are they only doing it. What is going on with them.Who is flaming this hatred.

 

Radicals in Islam unfortunately always had more power to influence than other radical in other religions.

[mishra]

17 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So what should they do? If they are being treated as second class citizens in their own country.

Who is saying they are treated as second class? Not allowing to preach and practice extremist views of their religion is least a democratic government can do. IMO, issue should be brought in UN and Globally and officially all those texts/preaching should be mnadated to delete. Any nation not following the mandate should be classed as officially Supporting inequality, paedophilia, slavery. On that ground, sanctions and if need be, war under UN umbrella should be carrried out.

[mishra]

6 minutes ago, someone said:

Hinduva is a reaction, and a defensive reaction to the hostile actions by foreign religions over centuries. It's not a new thing, and it is a challenge today. Irrespective of the governments, it's the Muslim radicalization which is increasing at a alarming rate, and has to be resolved.

 

Next, all parties are fearful of Muslim rebellion, and it's the solution which differentiates them. Congress and allies want to keep them content with "veto power", exclusive rights, and basically first hand on our resources. That is a truce, not actual peace. Yet this "status quo" hasn't helped but further divided in the 70 years journey, and this is where BJP wants to change the "status quo" and build true unity and equality. Many talked about how Article 370, Ram Mandir would bring blood on the streets, yet nobody dared to ask who?

 

Are you saying Hindus shouldnt follow Hindutva ? Hindutva is what makes India and Indian people. It defines Indian globally

[coffee_rules]

23 minutes ago, putrevus said:

First things don't take my words out of context. That is general outlook from a muslim perpective in terms of BJP. Ram Janambhoomi started this view point in 1990s.There have been wars based on religion long before BJP came into existence.RSS was there since 1920s but BJP coming to power gave it more political significance.

 

Hinduism has always been built around acceptance otherwise we would not have so many religions coexist in India.Why it happened, we can always debate about it.But once it happened IMHO  we as majority have duty towards other minorities to make them feel part of our country. Ahimsa Paramo Dharma is the principle which has guided our nation for a long long time.

 

Radicalization of any religion is very dangerous.

 

Hindus don't have friction with Jains, Buddhists, Parsis, Sikhs, to some extent Christians (except for the conversion thing) and only have an issue with Radical Muslims not accepting to be part of India. You don't see a bunch of Parsis throwing stones at the police or Ganesh/Durga visarjan.  This was the case during Independence movement as well which resulted in the Partition. This is not the case of India alone, it is world over even as remote as Canada.  This victimization of second-class citizenry is all political posturing, common man doesn't feel it on the street , except during elections. There is no place for appeasement in real Secularism. They have changed the meaning of Secularism and now it is a cuss word. India has always been plural and that is what we should accept, there is no majority/minority business, all are equal in the society. Assimilation is everybody's responsibility, not just for the majority. India is still allowing azaan , five times a day, most of the govt policies for minorities have been utilized by Muslims alone, but India still gets the tag of not treating Muslims well. 

[someone]

6 minutes ago, mishra said:

Are you saying Hindus shouldnt follow Hindutva ? Hindutva is what makes India and Indian people. It defines Indian globally

No, I am saying it's a necessity in current times. Ignoring or even pampering the radicals, will not solve the problem. We have tried and failed with such method over 70 years.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Hindus don't have friction with Jains, Buddhists, Parsis, Sikhs, to some extent Christians (except for the conversion thing) and only have an issue with Radical Muslims not accepting to be part of India. You don't see a bunch of Parsis throwing stones at the police or Ganesh/Durga visarjan.  This was the case during Independence movement as well which resulted in the Partition. This is not the case of India alone, it is world over even as remote as Canada.  This victimization of second-class citizenry is all political posturing, common man doesn't feel it on the street , except during elections. There is no place for appeasement in real Secularism. They have changed the meaning of Secularism and now it is a cuss word. India has always been plural and that is what we should accept, there is no majority/minority business, all are equal in the society. Assimilation is everybody's responsibility, not just for the majority. India is still allowing azaan , five times a day, most of the govt policies for minorities have been utilized by Muslims alone, but India still gets the tag of not treating Muslims well. 

You are wrong, there will be always majority and minority everywhere. They had huge friction with Sikhs till 1984.Once radicalization of any religion starts it takes life of its own.Minority will always feels they are being short changed.Some express more and some less that is the only difference.

 

 

[putrevus]

20 minutes ago, mishra said:

Who is saying they are treated as second class? Not allowing to preach and practice extremist views of their religion is least a democratic government can do. IMO, issue should be brought in UN and Globally and officially all those texts/preaching should be mnadated to delete. Any nation not following the mandate should be classed as officially Supporting inequality, paedophilia, slavery. On that ground, sanctions and if need be, war under UN umbrella should be carrried out.

Atleast some are feeling it that is what is fueling this hatred, we cannot tell them how they should feel about themselves.

 

The mandate you are talking about is next to impossible to implement. 

 

Our neigbour moron Imran Khan has no business  of lecturing French people but he feels he has right to do it.Can you stop him.

[mishra]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

Atleast some are feeling it that is what is fueling this hatred, we cannot tell them how they should feel about themselves.

 

The mandate you are talking about is next to impossible to implement. 

 

Our neigbour moron Imran Khan has no business  of lecturing French people but he feels he has right to do it.Can you stop him.

None! Its lie that some are feeling it. There is nothing that stops them from lieing.

IMO, That UN mandate is only peaceful solution. My hope is: Once age of Petrodollar gets over, common sense will prevail in UN.

 

I don’t mind every religion is pulled out in UN and discussed and if need be asked to remove certain txts is even if that is just for PC purpose only

Edited October 27, 2020 by mishra

[Texy]

The only ones who can reform ISLAM  are muslims themselves, anyone else attempting otherwise will be seen as outsider trying to attack the religion

[someone]

The West always knew the dangers yet their solution of education, prosperity, development really hasn't worked.  It's about "non-negotiable" elements. Such as attire, images, history, uniformity, women rights are taboo or blasphemy things. The West never studied the non-negotiable elements, and these are really critical for the solution.

 

Compare it with a Hindu going overseas, he can change every bit of his himself, and has zero non-negotiable elements.

[Laaloo]

Bomb threat by Eiffel tower

 

 

[coffee_rules]

 

[Laaloo]