zen Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Because if a player performs consistently in domestic cricket, then he can be brought into the national team and given consistent chances. As already shown, players in ODIs/T20s are no longer picked based on domestic cricket .... They are picked mostly based on performances in IPL Can you give me an example of players who have made their debut recently in ODIs/T20s based on domestic performances Quote I admit Sanju is talented but even in IPL, he has massively underachieved for years with all the talent at his disposal. I don’t want someone like that to play for Team India and neither should you! What is underachieved? Can you give examples of what achievement is in IPL and which young players are meeting those criteria to be considered over Samson, a WK AR? Edited October 15, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondSlip Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, zen said: As already shown, players in ODIs/T20s are no longer picked based on domestic cricket .... They are picked mostly based on performances in IPL Can you give me an example of players who have made their debut recently in ODIs/T20s based on domestic performances What is underachieved? Can you give examples of what achievement is in IPL and which young players are meeting those criteria to be considered over Samson, a WK AR? Iyer, Agarwal, Shaw, Khaleel all made their ODI debuts with little to show in IPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Iyer, Agarwal, Shaw, Khaleel all made their ODI debuts with little to show in IPL. An inaccurate statement as the talent of most of them was observed in IPL (and some of them also played in a different format in international cricket to be transferred to ODIs/T20s) Edited October 15, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, SecondSlip said: You are saying he has won many matches in IPL, but he has lost many more than that throwing his wicket away countless times. Most top player has been guilty of that in his early years His style has won them many games and so have its lost, thats what u get with attacking player Dont like it there is always option of dhawan n rahane but then dont crib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasgulla Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Bit disappointed with mallu Samson. Talent is always there but consistency! The Dark Horse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 6 hours ago, zen said: Note that not everyone has to be a great batsman .... Great batsmen have hardly won India much - it is the likes of Yuvi, GG, Amarnath, Srikant, etc., who have put their hand up at key moments in tournaments like the WC Kapil Dev. Topped most runs scored by Indian player in that series. The catch that he took. The wickets he took. Roger Binny. He was highest wicket taker for India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, SecondSlip said: Iyer, Agarwal, Shaw, Khaleel all made their ODI debuts with little to show in IPL. I feel that Shaw even though younger than Samson needs to be in T20i team. Pant too needs to be in team ahead of Samson. Rohit Rahul Shaw Kohli Iyer Pant Pandya Agarwal and Gill as backup for top order based on IPL form. Edited October 16, 2020 by Straight Drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondSlip Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Most top player has been guilty of that in his early years His style has won them many games and so have its lost, thats what u get with attacking player Dont like it there is always option of dhawan n rahane but then dont crib Dhawan >>>> Samson in all formats. It’s not even a comparison. By the way, it’s not “early years” for Samson. He’s been playing in IPL since 2013 and has played 90 List A matches as well but there is 0 improvement in his batting. Anyways, I don’t care how many games he wins/loses in IPL. My issue arises when people needlessly overrate him and ask for his inclusion in Team India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Dhawan >>>> Samson in all formats. It’s not even a comparison. Dhawan has had his chance in t20 let samson have and then we ll say who is better 13 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: By the way, it’s not “early years” for Samson. He’s been playing in IPL since 2013 and has played 90 List A matches as well but there is 0 improvement in his batting. how do u assess improvement ? 13 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Anyways, I don’t care how many games he wins/loses in IPL. My issue arises when people needlessly overrate him and ask for his inclusion in Team India. what overrating ?? Did someone say play and drop kohli ur the one riling up for no reason and flipping every few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondSlip Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Dhawan has had his chance in t20 let samson have and then we ll say who is better how do u assess improvement ? what overrating ?? Did someone say play and drop kohli ur the one riling up for no reason and flipping every few months Someone who averages 30 in List A cricket after playing almost 100 matches is not improving. Someone who is a batting mainstay for his IPL side but fails more than he succeeds is not improvement. The guy is not international standards and will never get selected over Dhawan in any format. Even the selectors agree with me on this one so kudos to them Selectors of every team flip. For example, just last year, Jonny Bairstow was playing in the Ashes and now he doesn’t even have a ECB contract. Just because you rated a player at one point doesn’t mean you have to stick by that opinion forever. Maybe you should learn that and stop putting in all your might and effort in defending this domestic failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Someone who averages 30 in List A cricket after playing almost 100 matches is not improving. Someone who is a batting mainstay for his IPL side but fails more than he succeeds is not improvement. List A is poorely organized tournament said that 100 times there is difference between inconsistent and failure Quote The guy is not international standards and will never get selected over Dhawan in any format. Even the selectors agree with me on this one so kudos to them Whats international standard ? Quote Selectors of every team flip. For example, just last year, Jonny Bairstow was playing in the Ashes and now he doesn’t even have a ECB contract. Just because you rated a player at one point doesn’t mean you have to stick by that opinion forever. Maybe you should learn that and stop putting in all your might and effort in defending this domestic failure. No the point is how can u call someone a match winner and then say he isnt , there is no reason to stop rating someone who is under 30, batsman hit their pick post 28 mostly that any layman can after watching 2 good innings , its about backing a player when its tough Edited October 16, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondSlip Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: List A is poorely organized tournament said that 100 times there is difference between inconsistent and failure Whats international standard ? No the point is how can u call someone a match winner and then say he isnt , there is no reason to stop rating someone who is under 30, batsman hit their pick post 28 mostly that any layman can after watching 2 good innings , its about backing a player when its tough Yeah let’s blame the tournament when your favourites fail in it This is the same tournament where the players you don’t rate like Agarwal and Iyer have been very successful in. Samson is not international standards. A guy who is a failure in domestic cricket will be an even bigger failure in international cricket. This is why he has never played ODIs for us. There is also no reason to highly overrate someone and ask for his inclusion in the Indian team despite being a domestic failure. He can get as much “backing” and “support” as he likes from his domestic and IPL teams. Just stay the F away from Team India! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, SecondSlip said: Yeah let’s blame the tournament when your favourites fail in it i hve never rated List A FC yes SMA - yes But List A is poorly organized 1 hour ago, SecondSlip said: This is the same tournament where the players you don’t rate like Agarwal and Iyer have been very successful in. Samson is not international standards. A guy who is a failure in domestic cricket will be an even bigger failure in international cricket. This is why he has never played ODIs for us. Whats international standard ? 1 hour ago, SecondSlip said: There is also no reason to highly overrate someone and ask for his inclusion in the Indian team despite being a domestic failure. Yet he gets in India-A coz crickters see talent in him and he performs there so list A doesnt prove much 1 hour ago, SecondSlip said: He can get as much “backing” and “support” as he likes from his domestic and IPL teams. Just stay the F away from Team India! Khudh ko Srini mama samjha hai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondSlip Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: i hve never rated List A FC yes SMA - yes But List A is poorly organized Whats international standard ? Yet he gets in India-A coz crickters see talent in him and he performs there so list A doesnt prove much Khudh ko Srini mama samjha hai Why don’t you rate List A? What makes it poorly organized? Just because your favourites are failures in it? An international standards batsmen is someone who will be a good batsman for his national team. Meanwhile Samson is not even good enough for his domestic team Kerala! Forget Srini Mama, not even our unknown selectors want this failure in the Indian team. That’s why they aren’t picking him! Maybe if he worked hard on his game at an equal amount of effort as you are doing here debating with me, he would have been playing for India today. But alas, debating and fighting over a cricket forum isn’t going to transform a failure into a success! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Why don’t you rate List A? What makes it poorly organized? Just because your favourites are failures in it? Kabhi domestic dekhoge to pata chalega 11 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: An international standards batsmen is someone who will be a good batsman for his national team. Meanwhile Samson is not even good enough for his domestic team Kerala! And how do u decide that ? Coz even KL n pant list A isnt that great so acc to you even they cant play international bowling 11 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Forget Srini Mama, not even our unknown selectors want this failure in the Indian team. That’s why they aren’t picking him! But he has been picked in last few series 11 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: Maybe if he worked hard on his game at an equal amount of effort as you are doing here debating with me, he would have been playing for India today. Yea right why am i debating with knowing u, it wont take 3 games for u to flip 11 minutes ago, SecondSlip said: But alas, debating and fighting over a cricket forum isn’t going to transform a failure into a success! Neither does ur opinion finishes his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondSlip Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Kabhi domestic dekhoge to pata chalega And how do u decide that ? Coz even KL n pant list A isnt that great so acc to you even they cant play international bowling But he has been picked in last few series Yea right why am i debating with knowing u, it wont take 3 games for u to flip Neither does ur opinion finishes his career Nothing wrong with our domestic cricket. With the amount of low-class domestic trundlers we have, if Sanju can average only 30 against them then he should be ashamed of himself. Maybe BCCI should hire you so you can tweak things around to make your favourites look better than they are? Show me an ODI squad in the past 5 years where Samson’s name is in it. Your fantasy team doesn’t count I won’t change my opinion and “flip” on this guy until he proves himself in domestic cricket and neither will our selectors whose opinion matters the most. The opinions of his supporters like yourself have 0 value here. Zilch! My opinion doesn’t need to finish his international career because he doesn’t have one to begin with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Keep this guy and all other hacks away from Indian team. SecondSlip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 hours ago, putrevus said: Keep this guy and all other hacks away from Indian team. I don't think he is a hack. He scores on both sides of the ground. His problem is he just does not puts enough runs on the board more often than not and hence it also affects his average and consistency. Consistency and runs scored are a result of many many factors and qualities. He needs to analyse why he is failing and then take corrective steps to improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevada Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 On 10/15/2020 at 12:33 AM, zen said: Teams usually rely on the top 7 batsmen. There are 14 games and if teams target min 50% wins, if a batsman in combination of other 1-2 batsmen can help to win 3-4 games, he is doing fine. Samson has won two games already for his team (and played a minor role in its 3rd win). May be others need to step up more and of course Samson can win a few more too Good point! Hope he still has 1-2 match winning performances in the remaining games to end the 1 and done per season jinx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankit_sharma03 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Straight Drive said: I don't think he is a hack. He scores on both sides of the ground. His problem is he just does not puts enough runs on the board more often than not and hence it also affects his average and consistency. Consistency and runs scored are a result of many many factors and qualities. He needs to analyse why he is failing and then take corrective steps to improve Hack is the most misused word on this forum, nyways he is guy who has claimed kl rahul has no talent so u can understand him hack word coming from him. About sanju problem is both sides He needs a fix batting slit and thats top 3, his games is made for that. He also has to be consistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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